朱恐龍
朱恐龍

景氣大蕭條與塗鴉..... (65939 views)
     

面對金融海嘯,面對我們可能這輩子從來沒有面對過的大蕭條時代,我其實一直想要說點我的看法,但是環境越壞,我就越不想嚴肅的寫文章。

拖了很久,我想應該是時候了。但是,在進入本文之前,我要先說個紐約的故事:

八零年代,紐約的治安可說是史上最差的年代,但隨後卻因為捷運系統政策的改變,而讓整體的犯罪率開始巨幅下滑,原因只是因為一個關注小地方的決策:紐約市當時剛接手的運輸局局長David Gunn決心要把消除地鐵上的塗鴉擺為最重要的政策之一。

這個作法看起來很白癡,因為當時紐約市的地鐵準點率低落,逃票事件層出不窮,大部分的地鐵系統都沒有冷氣,鐵軌損壞無法高速運作的區域超過五百個,每年在地鐵中發生超過一萬五千件的重大刑案......

這個時候還在關切塗鴉,不就像是替急診的病患先化好妝再去開刀一樣的荒謬嗎?

在我真正要說的事情開始前,讓我先引述《引爆趨勢》這本書裡面David Gunn受訪的回應:「塗鴉正是地鐵系統瓦解的象徵,要重建整個組織及提升士氣,就得解決塗鴉的問題。贏不了這場戰役,所有管理改革或其他具體變革都是鏡花水月。我們即將引進每輛造價一千萬美元的新列車,除非能夠保護這些新車,否則新車只能維持一天的好光景,很快就會被人亂畫亂寫。」

他甚至還設立了一個車廂的清潔區,如果車輛在此轉運時發現有塗鴉,一定要立即清除,否則就不讓這些車廂上線,「髒車」絕對不和乾淨的車輛混用。

「在哈林區一百三十五街附近,我們有一座停車場,列車會停在那裡過夜。那些塗鴉小鬼第一天晚上會先把列車側面塗成白色。第二天晚上,油漆乾了,再畫出輪廓。第三天晚上則塗上各種顏色,總共需要三個晚上。我們知道這些小鬼的目標是已有塗鴉的髒車,因此,我們等他們完成,然後再重新漆回原來的顏色。這些小鬼看到之後,眼淚都會掉出來,但我們只需要上上下下刷一次就好了。這對他們是一項宣示:你們願意花上三個晚上在列車上塗鴉,無所謂,但是你們的傑作絕對無法重見天日。」

到了1990年的時候,地鐵局的新任警察局長William Bratton也跟David Gunn一樣,是破窗理論的信徒。他決定針對逃票這件事情進行嚴格的查緝,原先逃票一次只罰1.25美金,沒有地鐵警察願意處理,但他認為逃票和塗鴉一樣,雖然只是小小的脫序行為,卻可能招致更多、更嚴重的犯罪。

等到朱力安尼接任市長之後,他也用同樣的理論去嚴格處理輕罪,從而成功的降低了紐約市的犯罪率,成功的扭轉了紐約犯罪魔窟的悲劇。

Follow up:

我不是什麼專家,所以我要講的也只是自己的看法而已。

這一波大蕭條其實對台灣來講最大的衝擊來自於全球的消費者都失去了信心,不敢進行消費。

而且台灣因為是以出口市場為主,所以之前提前受到的衝擊是在信心面,但以國外廠商大致是提前三個月下單的狀況來說,台灣所受到的衝擊其實都會延遲三個月左右。

舉例來說,Dell的產品如果在2008年9月開始銷售減緩,庫存增多,那麼大概公司就可以預期下一季,也就是2008年12月的銷售量不會大,而在9月下單給台灣那些代工廠商或是更上游的晶圓廠商的時候,自然就會砍單或是減少下單量。

換句話說,也就是上一季的銷售量影響到下一季的代工採購單,iPod因為消費者不敢採購而賣不好,然後蘋果電腦公司下給台灣的單就會變少,然後台灣這邊就會開始裁員關廠失業等等......

所以,勉強可以看到一個可能最慘的顛峰,就是美國十二月聖誕節消費如果不能帶來足夠多的訂單,台灣廠商第一季的表現勢必會極端糟糕。

但是,我真正擔心的不是這個部分。

那不是我能夠解決的部分。什麼創造新企業呀,什麼延長兵役呀,什麼增加研發替代役啊,這些都不是我的專長。

我要講的其實很簡單,就是一個簡單的觀察。

如果失業率上升,很顯而易見的是犯罪率一定會提升。

以前我們看到的可能還是那些慣竊、慣犯在從事犯罪行為,但現在在2009年3月(如果再加上失業救濟,或許可以多延幾個月)以後,我們即將看到的會是那些迫於生計,因為沒有飯吃而被迫要違法的失業人們。

如果你要證據的話......

我不知道各位有沒有像我一樣經常在台北街頭走來走去。

簡單的來說,你會發現,從去年開始,不知道何時,整個羅斯福路從和平東路到新生南路這一段,所有的空牆跟圍籬,幾乎都已經被塗鴉給佔據了。

底下的照片都是我請史旺基大人拍的。

如果你仔細的看看身邊,就會發現塗鴉佔據這些地點的速度比我們想像的要快的多了。

而且,沒有人清除它。

底下是2008年年底一篇《科學》雜誌上新的研究,路透社簡單的翻譯:

(路透倫敦20日電)研究人員今天報告指出,塗鴉及髒亂會引發兩倍的人犯下竊盜罪,顯示違反社會善序良俗之舉會鼓動許多人起而傚尤,破壞規矩。

研究人員表示,這項發現強化了所謂的「破窗理論」,這個理論是全球許多大城市拿來做為防治犯罪的基礎,基於防小惡止大惡的信念,警方嚴厲打擊小型犯罪。

主持這項研究的荷蘭葛羅林金大學(University of Groningen)社會心理學家凱瑟(Kees Keizer)說:「我們預料會有這種影響,但沒料到影響這麼大。如果塗鴉及髒亂會引發兩倍的人犯下竊盜,就令人很震驚。」

研究人員在不同城市鄰近社區展開一系列小型犯罪實驗,測試人們是否會因看到別人違反社會善序良俗的行為也起而傚尤。他們發現,附近牆壁出現塗鴉或地方髒亂,約有25%的人會到郵筒偷竊五歐元紙鈔信封,相對牆壁或環境乾淨,此種行為比率為13%。

研究人員強調,這項研究為諸如打破窗戶之類的脫序及小惡行為會蔓延,甚至導致鄰近社區跟著敗壞,提供了有力證據。本研究發表於「科學」(Science)期刊。中央社(翻譯)

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/india-news/graffiti-and-litter-linked-to-soaring-street-crime-rates-re-issue_100122573.html

看了另外一篇報導有比較詳細的說明:

Keizer在一個住家的信箱中擺了一個寫上了完整地址的信封,刻意讓裡面的五歐元露了出來。並且用路人無法察覺的方式監視這個信箱。

在沒有塗鴉或是垃圾的狀況下,13%的路人會偷走這五歐元。如果這個郵箱上和旁邊被噴上了塗鴉,偷走五歐元的比例提高到27%,如果旁邊都是垃圾,偷走五歐元的比例則是26%。

事實上,我對於塗鴉本身倒底是藝術還是或是犯罪沒有特定的立場。

研究的原文在這裡,如果你在學術網路學校有買授權,應該可以看到全文:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/322/5908/1681

史旺基大人拍照的範圍應該也包括了木柵一帶,不僅是在我說的那些區域。

真正讓人擔心的是,塗鴉的出現和持續沒有人清除的狀況,代表的都是治安的持續,而且快速的惡化。

原因不是因為單純的抹黑塗鴉的人作奸犯科或是都是壞胚子,塗鴉本來就是一個跟既定制度對抗的一種社會行為。

而是如果那面圍牆被塗鴉之後沒有人清理,代表的是該地無人管理,或者是店家沒有多餘的經費可以花在清除這些塗鴉上面。甚或是該棟建築已經被查封、法拍等等。

更糟糕的是,這代表的是公務機關、市政府相關單位,無暇他顧,或是根本輕忽蔑視市容的整潔。

回想一下,我們以前只會在荒地、倒閉的店家或是空屋看到這些塗鴉,但現在卻幾乎在巷口、公寓門口、店家拉下的鐵捲門上......都可以看的到。

如果店家生意興隆,他們會坐視這種礙眼的塗鴉不管嗎?

如果市區的公權力認真執法,他們會對這些噴漆和塗鴉束手無策嗎?

這代表的其實是一個很簡單的趨勢,目前的社會秩序正在緩緩的瓦解中。

政府和民間都沒有足夠的人力或是沒有足夠的資源去恢復,或是重新建立這些秩序。甚至代表維護秩序、維持清潔的政府力量,沒有辦法長時間的保持該地的清潔及「正常」狀態。

想想看,就像是當年的紐約地鐵一樣,有許多複雜的塗鴉圖案,甚至必須要花上好幾天的時間持續作業才能夠完成......而在這中間,竟然沒有人有資源清除、沒有公權力有辦法管理? 你會覺得這樣的社區和街道是處在一個安全的狀態嗎?

你能想像帝寶大樓門口被人噴漆嗎?

幾乎不可能。(但我打賭一定有很多人想要嘗試)

因為就算噴漆者沒有當場被二十四小時的警衛抓到,事後管理單位一定會盡快清除掉這些塗鴉。

所以就算它有遭到噴漆,路人也不會看到噴漆的成果。

而且,破窗理論最重要的一個關鍵,就是對於社會的其他成員而言,這個噴漆、這些垃圾、這扇破窗,代表的是社會上有其他人違法亂紀,而且逃之夭夭,沒有受到懲罰。

根據以上的實驗,有了噴漆之後,會有兩倍以上的人會有跟進犯罪的衝動,因為這也代表了他們受到懲罰(或被抓到)的機率不高。

所以,你說我對這一波大蕭條有什麼預測?

很簡單,從今年開始,也許是現在,也許是三月以後:走在街上,請小心你的皮包。路邊停車,請小心你的車子。如果連台北市最繁忙的道路羅斯福路上都充滿了各種各樣的塗鴉時,這個警告應該很明顯了:特別是在那些遍佈塗鴉的地方,請小心你自己的安全。因為,從這些細微的地方,可以看出來,破窗已經出現了,犯罪率一定會上升。

有很多塗鴉本身真的很漂亮,但重點不在於塗鴉本身的藝術性,而是它背後所代表的社會失序的結果。

如果相關單位笨到以為這只不過是破壞市容的微罪的話,紐約市的經驗恐怕也沒辦法讓他們學到什麼教訓。最後,恐怕要付出代價的就會是我們了。

Lucifer

破窗理論的破窗已經出現了,但有人真的看到了嗎?

喔,對了,2009年阿宅聚會及春酒活動要在2/14號辦,請各位阿宅空下時間來嚕。

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迴響(469)

迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
***--
早安~....
2009-02-04 @ 11:02
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
**---
請問那個好聽的fuck單口相聲
真的是蝙蝠俠講的嗎?
2009-02-04 @ 11:04
迴響 from: shennary [訪問者]
午安~....
2009-02-04 @ 11:05
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
*----
快吃中飯啦~午安
我在台灣從來沒看過"本土化"的中文塗鴉
這些人也真沒創意!

如果你第一個噴中文塗鴉, 一定紅的很快~
愛現就馬上行動啊~ 還是這些塗鴉創作者
中文能力有限呢?
笨蛋一群...
2009-02-04 @ 11:11
迴響 from: Michael [訪問者]
內湖科技園區旁邊的道路上莫名其妙多了兩隻熊貓石像,大佳河濱公園突然出現幾匹馬銅像(公園旁卻擺上大賣場買的難看垃圾桶),好端端的人行道每年都翻修。

健保費拒繳的台北市其實預算充裕,只是主政者有沒有用心罷了。
2009-02-04 @ 11:13
迴響 from: fedrico [訪問者]
這樣的觀點來觀察很特別,一個讚(我特別同意很多官都是"連公子"這部份).
2009-02-04 @ 11:19
迴響 from: GCVincent [訪問者]
附近除夕以來已經發生三次疑似縱火事件,名子裡有個安的那一區~

命中缺什麼,名子就要取什麼 Orz
2009-02-04 @ 11:20
迴響 from: 水漣漪 [訪問者]
真前面XD 說到路邊停車...我男友的車子昨天停在路邊 車窗被人砸了~車裡的衛星導航被拿走 唉唉...真的要小心了
2009-02-04 @ 11:21
迴響 from: 小觀眾 [訪問者]


嗯...
端下巴...
2009-02-04 @ 11:22
迴響 from: leoliao [訪問者]
台北市跟高雄市對塗鴉的態度顯然不同呀~

台北市街頭塗鴉 最高罰六千
http://www.ttv.com.tw/095/07/0950712/09507124379602L.htm

高市/街頭塗鴉鹽埕埔 新舊衝突顛覆城市美學
http://www.nownews.com/2009/01/20/11469-2398160.htm
2009-02-04 @ 11:23
迴響 from: 泰比 [訪問者]
我覺得垃圾變多了...這算一個指標嗎?
(一直覺得,這年頭大部分人的公德心都被狗吃了Orz)

至於治安不好...
因為我住在一個原本治安就不是很好的地方
在這種時候~只能說~雪上加霜
經濟不景氣應該使得很多人鋌而走險
回收資源價格好的時候
連擺在院子放花盆的壞銅骨設都被偷走 (嘆)
2009-02-04 @ 11:32
迴響 from: Benjamin [訪問者]
*****
莫因善小而不為,

莫因惡小而為之。


圍籬、電線桿、變電箱....

在台北隨處都可以看到一些不知所云的塗鴉,連承德路上的舊台汽站都被塗上超明顯的噴漆。

顯示政府連自己的地盤、一棟如此顯眼的建物都管不好了,更別想他們會注意到其他角落。

BTW,那些塗鴉都真的一點美感都沒有...
--
2009-02-04 @ 11:36
迴響 from: blues [訪問者]
午安午安~很棒的見解 從小地方來解讀有現今可能發展的惡劣情況 但仍希望不會演變成這樣(嘆氣) 還好掛在外頭的安全帽和雨衣還沒被幹走..
2009-02-04 @ 11:48
迴響 from: 真三國無雙五 [訪問者]
唉!
我不喜歡塗鴉!
2009-02-04 @ 11:51
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
*****
家不治,何以國為。

就好像新舊政府對地下電台總是睜眼閉眼..
我知道跳tone跳很大跳不用錢,但有些話想說。離題也是阿宅的特色

地下電台:有些人,企圖利用媒體,混淆視聽..ooxx

糟糕的是,他們沒發現自己正在做這件事
更糟的是,很多人在聽
最糟的是,聽眾都盲目的相信


我覺得把地下電台通通炸掉會讓社會安寧不少,這些傢伙只會鼓吹對立。
2009-02-04 @ 11:56
迴響 from: evilove [訪問者] · http://jen-r2.blogspot.com/2008/10/re.html
之前剛好有蒐集對破窗理論的批評與作者本人的辯駁

http://jen-r2.blogspot.com/2008/10/re.html

破窗理論?破窗謬論?

(Lucifer:科學期刊的那篇文章就是用來輔佐破窗理論的。經濟學家的話參考而已啦。這麼厲害就沒有金融危機了。)
2009-02-04 @ 11:56
迴響 from: 松鼠 [訪問者] · http://tec730721.blogspot.com/
*****
2/14已經空下來了!沒有問題!
2009-02-04 @ 11:57
迴響 from: DRack [訪問者]
我以前覺得有些塗鴉很酷
但會有一點點不安與躁亂的情緒浮現
所以隱隱覺得塗鴉其實對人的心理可能有影響
看了這篇才恍然大悟
原來在心理學的角度是這樣分析的
2009-02-04 @ 12:00
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
*****
***
閱畢~~~


====
啊幹....
我的出沒範圍耶. . . . .

====
挑2月十4號的目的是???

1.到了現場才發現其實是去死去死團的活動?
2.朱大的男子漢舞的成果發表會?
3.還是朱大放出閃光大絕,宣布脫團?

====
那個誰...趕快去調假吧
2009-02-04 @ 12:11
迴響 from: martian [訪問者]
2月14日...呀!
是個好日子~
(但是出現在聚會上ㄉ話表示...沒其他ㄉ事嗎?)
2009-02-04 @ 12:11
迴響 from: 查布萊特 [訪問者]
豪宅大人:
請問一下春酒的時間是什麼時間?我當天要在學校支援到下午五點,不知道能不能去...
聽說上次內湖聚會有去的,這一次的聚會有可能免費參加嗎?
勞煩豪宅大人了
2009-02-04 @ 12:12
迴響 from: 失憶老人 [訪問者]
一向就是「嚴刑峻法」的支持者。
理由很簡單,不但要保護好人,而且要讓游離份子不至於起而傚尤;至於邊緣份子,就花最多的力氣感化他。

帶一個班級,如果想要讓班上整潔,最有效的方法不是扣分而是加分;放學後抽一點時間一組一組檢查,將各組加扣分寫在黑板的榮譽榜上。
還是要扣分以示懲處,但是把加分的組別分數加得特別高,並且爽快的頒發作業減量卡。
對於那些完全沒有榮譽心的人,給他1次機會,再犯直接罰抄課文並給予精神懲罰──老師的魔音穿腦碎碎念。
整潔加上嚴格,我的班級比較不敢亂來。但是要花很多時間跟孩子們講大道理。

我覺得政令的宣導,較少講述大道理的部份。
宣導影片中加進幾秒的正面和負面教材,用活潑的方式(如動畫)實施,比較容易接受。
重點是,不能總是宣導「利己」的部份,「利他」的觀念也很重要。
我們去日本旅遊時,總是羨慕人家的一些公共設施做的特別貼心、特別為人著想。
這就是「利他」。

「利他」的最終極好處,就是「利己」。希望這個道理大家都能想通。
2009-02-04 @ 12:15
迴響 from: 由美姬 [訪問者]
選在2月14日辦真的是有阿宅限定的感覺~~
2009-02-04 @ 12:20
迴響 from: 馬奶下台 [訪問者]
*****
應該恢復日治時代的刑法,把這種亂塗鴉的人的手給砍了。
不過台灣的條伯都是洨峱峱,不敢抓啦。
2009-02-04 @ 12:27
迴響 from: 伊凡斯 [訪問者]
現階段大家都在忙著"調數字",根本沒空理這些事吧
2009-02-04 @ 12:28
迴響 from: Kent [訪問者] Email
*****
非常棒的文章
多謝提醒警惕
記得曾有些地方是開放塗鴉的
不該有塗鴉的地方,還是要有人來管一管吧
2009-02-04 @ 12:45
迴響 from: 奇克斯 [訪問者]
*****
推破窗理論。
這讓我想到敝公司的德政─員工早上出席的彈性空間現在已經變第一面破窗:
主管不想當壞人不敢講紀律,下面自然一個比一個誇張:有人忘記開工日還在南部度假,有的請假沒人知道就自己放假去玩。這一切就從越來越糟的準時出席開始。

破窗理論在敝公司完全得到證明。
2009-02-04 @ 12:45
迴響 from: Michael [訪問者]


對朱大犯了道德上的系統性錯誤,心理真是難過......
(開始連續7天自我反省,決不說話。)

FNI-MAN 鞠躬

2009-02-04 @ 12:53
迴響 from: visiteur [訪問者]
*****
那個日期是特別選的嗎 XD
2009-02-04 @ 13:01
迴響 from: 拉歐 [訪問者]
好微妙的阿宅聚會日啊(思
2009-02-04 @ 13:27
迴響 from: kanghsing [訪問者]
****-
李教授在蘋果日報上說
失業後要提升自身實力
並且特別提到"學英文"

學英文以後, 連塗鴉的功力都會提升
2009-02-04 @ 13:43
迴響 from: Mirror [訪問者]
***--
2/14~~~
舉手!!
我要報名~~
2009-02-04 @ 13:45
迴響 from: noodle K [訪問者]
有用鐳射的啦,不留痕跡,整棟建築物都在
但他最近在西藏被捕
政治
2009-02-04 @ 14:04
迴響 from: Venaisha... - Go To DMC!! [訪問者]

是特地選在2/14的嗎?

XDDDD


這篇我喜歡!
話說昨天才在台北車站附近看到塗鴉啊....
2009-02-04 @ 14:27
迴響 from: GM [訪問者] · http://www.pixnet.net/gm911
還是得說...塗鴉比無趣的灰牆好多啦~
2009-02-04 @ 14:37
迴響 from: 儒生朱厚宅 [訪問者]
子產是對的 當官的卻很溫柔 所以國家有盜賊啊
2009-02-04 @ 14:43
迴響 from: 路人假 [訪問者]
朱恐龍
身為一個體重越來越接近你的阿宅,對於這裡大部分的文章我都看得很開心。少數有些意見不同,也只是無關緊要細節部分。但是這篇倒是讓我有些驚訝。
我不反對破窗理論,但是我不認為把所有的塗鴉一竿子打翻是適當的說法。我不是說那些毫無意義的噴漆(我覺得那些連塗鴉都還不夠資格,只是有人拿著噴漆罐發洩),或者明顯惡意的字眼、圖案。有許多塗鴉創作者(我說是創作,因為他們有著明確的主題跟意義)並不是社會的邊緣份子或者無業遊民。他們是透過這種方式傳達他們的想法甚至是批判。簡單的說,出發點其實同樣是對這個社會的關注,而不是單純的脫序。
如果你有仔細研究某些塗鴉者的作品,例如英國的Robert banks以及在台灣模仿他的Bbrother,應該很容易瞭解這些作品所希望表達的意念。


(Lucifer:請勿歧視毫無意義的噴漆~~~~在這篇文章中哪種塗鴉都一樣滴。)
2009-02-04 @ 14:50
迴響 from: Shuyi [訪問者] · http://shuyi1130.blogspot.com/
*****
聚會日選在情人節當天
到底算好體貼還是好為難人? :)
2009-02-04 @ 14:56
迴響 from: tumi [訪問者]
(1)台北市是我覺得台灣裡面我看過最多警察在街頭執法的城市(大部分是交通違規檢查)
(2)文章中的塗鴉風格都很類似,而且其實都有某種水準,應該是少數幾個特定的團體所為(如果你有去看過鄉下那種鐵皮牆上噴滿招外籍勞工、越南新娘的噴字"廣告"看起來才更像不堪入目的"塗鴉"
所以我覺得國外的理論未必適用於台灣....
2009-02-04 @ 15:15
迴響 from: 依奇洛 [訪問者]
2/14嚴禁情侶檔來阿宅聚會放大絕!!!
那一天剛好有空說XD
2009-02-04 @ 15:32
迴響 from: Marco.co [訪問者]
*----
朱大您好 我從沒參加過聚會的新朋友 常常會來看你的網誌 請問要如何參加聚會呢 謝謝

Ps.通常我都只看正文 回應比較少看 如果有遺漏的資訊很抱歉^^"
2009-02-04 @ 15:33
迴響 from: 朱厚宅 [訪問者]
通常是前1周至2周開放報名 報名連結藏在文末或回應中....... 能不能成功報名就要看你的勤奮程度啦
2009-02-04 @ 15:50
迴響 from: Peggydoll [訪問者]
*****
記得多年前看過一部ya電影
也是講二流學校裡滿牆壁的塗鴉媒人管
整個校園打架鬧事髒亂不堪 老師也放棄學生
後來來了一個新老師~也用了類似破窗理論
不過他不是把牆漆回白色...
而是請一位相當有藝術天份的學生
把餐廳整面牆壁畫成了一副美好的壁畫
從此之後再也沒有人亂塗鴉製造髒亂
每個學生都以維護這面美麗的壁畫為榮
這是真實故事改拍成電影的...個人覺得很棒
2009-02-04 @ 15:54
迴響 from: AlbertO [訪問者]
***--
.......................2/14就是不歡迎有閃光的阿宅就對了(cry)

那個奇克斯,方便透露公司寶號嗎?好想加入這樣的公司阿XD

不過德國地鐵車廂塗鴉也頗多,但是犯罪率似乎還好?
雖然嚴刑峻法肯定生效,但是有沒有更棒的管理方法讓塗鴉可以對大家有正面的助益?
如果讓他們覺得在某處塗鴉超酷,然後不惜蓋掉前面的塗鴉來塗,這樣用塗鴉管制塗鴉有搞頭嗎?XD
2009-02-04 @ 16:15
迴響 from: 狐狸小賴 [訪問者]
*****
竊以為
重點不在塗鴉
而是小問題的控制
under control 或 out of control
當局要有(顯而易見的)手段讓民眾看見
就像朱大所說:心態很重要

阿彌陀佛,說好話,做好事
2009-02-04 @ 16:22
迴響 from: 走路吧!約翰~ [訪問者]
我想到新加坡和日本

我一位在新加坡唸書的朋友說,當你看到整條乾淨的街道,你自然不會有想亂丟垃圾或破壞它的念頭,似乎有種無形的力量,約束你的行為

換言之

我絕對相信打擊塗鴉可以造成蝴蝶效應阿
2009-02-04 @ 17:15
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
*****
>有許多塗鴉創作者(我說是創作,因為他們有著明確的主題跟意義)
>並不是社會的邊緣份子或者無業遊民。
>他們是透過這種方式傳達他們的想法甚至是批判。
>簡單的說,出發點其實同樣是對這個社會的關注,而不是單純的脫序。
我認為這同樣凸顯了正確發聲管道的缺乏,才會有人選擇【對抗社會秩序】的方式發表意見
這樣能提供的社會貢獻,我認為不會比電視上拿黑心錢亂放屁的名嘴好多少

這依然不是好現象是真的


話說回來,這麼快又要到了阿宅們見不得光的那一天...........
最關心阿宅的長輩卻已仙逝(淚)
阿宅們該怎麼辦呀!!!!!!
2009-02-04 @ 17:20
迴響 from: 呼拉圈(鄉民) [訪問者]
****-
看了上面的幾張塗鴉,看不出來有什麼社會批判跟關注的味道,倒像是以侵入並破壞系統為樂的電腦駭客.

而且,不論塗鴉者的動機為何,現行制度下的台灣公務員都有清除的義務,差別只在於清除的速度跟魄力.

PS:其實當天辦團聚是為了消滅去死去死團阿,這一定是敵宅神的陰謀 !!!!!
2009-02-04 @ 17:26
迴響 from: Colin [訪問者]
那朱老大要不要把這篇寄到台北市政府去
如果市政府不鳥的話我們可以一人一信
讓那些鐵飯碗的知道事態可能會引發出嚴重後果
畢竟居住在這個城市
舉目所及都可能有我們所關心的人
怎麼說都不希望他們受到傷害
雖說自己去刷掉最快啦
但是我是個懶的出門的阿宅...
2009-02-04 @ 18:13
迴響 from: 貴妃 [訪問者]
經濟不好本來就會出現更多的社會問題
自殺、家暴、竊盜、搶劫、憂鬱症、精神疾病....早就默默的發生,就差那壓垮駱駝的最後一根稻草,不知道經濟差到最後世界會變成怎樣...卻也沒人想得出解決方法

2月14日很想去耶,可是隔個星期有考試,雖然希望渺茫....祝大家玩的愉快囉!!
2009-02-04 @ 18:34
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
如果舉手說2/14可以去參加網聚
那不就表示我......所以我要大聲說:2/14我沒辦法參加XD~


可是我可以先拿腳踏墊去給叭噗先生.......囧"
2009-02-04 @ 18:52
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
有沒有人發現
台北和台中塗鴉簽的名有些是一樣的....

-_-"
2009-02-04 @ 19:20
迴響 from: 簡尼夫。德萊尼 [訪問者] · http://www.gamebase.com.tw/mybase/kenneth1991
媽的
那我的初音怎麼辦= =



短頭髮的Beotos!!!
2009-02-04 @ 19:23
迴響 from: m [訪問者]
*****
我我我~(舉手) 我2/14沒事耶!!這樣算是好事壞事?不過我也是隔個星期要考試 sigh
2009-02-04 @ 19:26
迴響 from: S. Peter [訪問者]

樓上有人搞不清狀況還在塗鴉的藝術性……

紐約就有地鐵塗鴉塗成當代藝術名家的案例(不過沒當多久,因為他老兄嗑藥嗑掛了),但是這跟破窗理論一點關係都沒有好嗎?

就像有人在你家門口噴了幅意境悠遠的大作,而你老兄沒去擦掉,這不是告訴路人你很有藝術氣息,而是告訴路人這家主人大概不知死到哪去了,要闖空門趁現在。
2009-02-04 @ 20:17
迴響 from: 亞伯山姆 [訪問者]
****-
這破窗理論我也讀到過,然後我就以此來評價英格蘭中部地區房價,塗鴉多的地區通常房價較低(一棟房子可以賣到7萬英鎊以下),並且車輛與房屋保險費較高(好區的汽車保險費可以低到一年250鎊,而「壞區」的保險費有可能會提升至一年500~750鎊之譜)。雖然這並不是因果關係,我相信是有高度相關性的。

我曾在我認為塗鴉多的伯明罕市東南部遭到一群印巴青少年的恐嚇(也許純屬個案經驗,沒統計上的意義),以安全因素考量,我會推薦我的家人朋友遠離塗鴉多的地區。

p.s.保險費也與車主駕齡有關,但上面數據是以同一駕駛但不同居住地區為例。
2009-02-04 @ 20:32
迴響 from: rammstein [訪問者]
我知道此言有理 但你們全都是該死的法西斯
市容管不好的政府就要把他推翻掉 沒事怪東怪西幹甚麼!
原文的重點在政府的有效管理 我雖然反對國家機器巨大化 但我覺得有理
但打擊塗鴉不是把塗鴉的人手砍掉阿! 本來革命就是要跑給你追的 紐約地鐵的例子也只是比誰漆的快 而不是在調車場裝詭雷把塗鴉客炸死甚麼的
一個偉大的國家就是會留給異議者空間 而不是只會打壓 視而不見或收編
還有 新加坡很乾淨 我也認識超多新加坡人
(Queensland根本是新馬人的天下 台灣人英文那麼差是不可能玩得過人家的)
誰想回去過昭和年代的嚴刑峻法歡迎移民 聽不懂Singlish應該也有模擬日語不通清國奴的感覺
我瞧不起任何形式的法西斯國家 尤其是一黨獨大總理還世襲的 一個字 幹
2009-02-04 @ 21:20
迴響 from: 鯨魚 [訪問者] Email
*****
破窗理論很久以前也在書上看過,
看完朱大的文章真是不住點頭,
真是厲害~

多謝分享^^
我最近出門就要開始小心了!!!
2009-02-04 @ 21:32
迴響 from: 哀哀哀的人生 [訪問者]
我2月14要去...
報名+1...
2009-02-04 @ 21:33
迴響 from: wild [訪問者]
2月14日我祖父出殯,在下正好是長孫。

請接受我不在場的祝福。
2009-02-04 @ 21:38
迴響 from: eeeee [訪問者]
"而且台灣因為是以出口市場為主,所以之前提前受到的衝擊是在信心面,但以國外廠商大致是提前三個月下單的狀況來說,台灣所受到的衝擊其實都會延遲三個月左右。 舉例來說,Dell的產品如果在2008年9月開始銷售減緩,庫存增多,那麼大概公司就可以預期下一季,也就是2008年12月的銷售量不會大,而在9月下單給台灣那些代工廠商或是更上游的晶圓廠商的時候,自然就會砍單或是減少下單量。" 這一段基本上是正確的 但是2008的時候比較不一樣 就晶圓代工廠來說 2008的時候是這樣子的 因為工廠會跟客戶保持合作的關係 所以工廠會Push 客戶持續的下單 在大家都很樂觀的時候 在2008/9 之前 大家都覺得沒什麼問題 因為客戶本身也因為下游常有急單的需求 本身會有點庫存 這是很正常的 七八月的時候 跡象就已經出現了 下游旺季沒有那麼旺 沒有人發覺這樣有點不對勁 因為產業分工得太細了 沒有人把上下游直接連在一起想 加上誰敢在大企業裡開第一槍放砲的呢?那時候石油也還在每桶140 沒有人被裁員減薪。 ok, 回到上面的例子來說, Dell在2008年一直賣的不是很好,但是持續還是對上游下單,祈禱七八月的旺季來到,就可以消化掉庫存,這樣沒有人會被罵,財報也會很完美。但是到10/1長假過了之後,發現, 靠, 不行了,庫存多到靠背了, 緊急對IC design 砍單, IC Design 再對 Foundry砍單,以往可能維持每個月1000 pcs的量,但是現在是緊急砍到0.這是從未發生過的事,因此公司做了很多裁員減薪來應付現在的情況。 那 為什麼會有如此愚蠢的情況發生呢。就Foundry來說, 你的key Customer每個月好比說有兩萬片, 業務每個月的預測(年初就要寫好), 也寫了兩萬片, 以往都沒有什麼問題, 在八月時你的客戶跟你(業務)說, 好像有點不太妙喔, 但是他也沒辦法講得很清楚, 這時候, 你的下修預期自然也不敢修太多, 大概是20K->18K, 但是九月的時後, 客戶跟你說 抱歉喔 下個月應該不會下單喔. 這時候就大家都很靠背了。 那 為什麼竹科會這麼慘 因為竹科一大半都是半導體業。 面板業也應該是同理可證, 正好 竹科的另一半就是面板業。 by 前代工廠業務
2009-02-04 @ 21:54
迴響 from: licia [訪問者]
我倒覺得塗鴉是社會一種自我療癒的表現、犯罪是另一種,並非犯罪的因。塗鴉的發生表示既有管道的令人沮喪;也就是民眾想要發聲,卻被既有體制掐著脖子"失聲",而藉由"塗鴉"表達,讓苦悶獲得解放。而犯罪是另一種。

而這既有管道就是所謂的"既有秩序"失靈,才產生所謂的"失序"。塗鴉代表犯罪,共通點是社會出問題,為何出問題?表示既有體制(或政策)失靈,而社會需要"新秩序",需要修正藥方。適合現代社會的新秩序一但產生,那麼這些所謂的問題行為可能就會消失了。

比方說,當身體不適時(身體受寒→政策錯誤),人會自然做出"失常"行為(打噴嚏、流鼻水,將寒氣離開身體→失序行為:塗鴉、犯罪),以修正身體不適的狀況,這是身體自我療癒的機制;然而人也要懂得身體運作的原理(了解社會需求問題量身訂做政策),才不會只用下猛藥的方式讓身體"假裝沒生病"(強制用某種以為正確其實不符合社會所需的政策規範),導致身體越來越沒有體抗外邪的體力;一旦如此,假以時日問題產生,就會爆發更大的失序。

另一個實例:不也是因為政府失靈,才產生NPO/NGO嗎?新的秩序來源,政府何不向比他們接近社會底層的他們取經?
2009-02-04 @ 22:13
迴響 from: ZN [訪問者]
*****
防微杜間
2009-02-04 @ 22:19
迴響 from: elaine [訪問者]
喔喔喔喔....木柵也有!可惡

其實我最近覺得警察出現的機率變高了耶,每次看到都不免擔心了起來(唉)

ps.朱大過生日為什麼不放煙火而是放鞭炮?每過生日都會覺得又嫁人一次那樣嗎?
2009-02-04 @ 23:07
迴響 from: 裝聰明小姐 [訪問者]
唉唉~~
沒想到這套有名的"破窗理論"
要拿到自已生活的地方來應用驗證...

有時候會覺得,這一次的金融海嘯
真是人類汲汲營營經濟市場的一種莊笑維反應
2009-02-04 @ 23:23
迴響 from: DRack [訪問者]
To licia

根據本人觀察...
台灣絕大部分塗鴉
都是某些人的練習稿
或是打自己的知名度的工具

就像很多人學 hiphop
可是只是覺得酷而已
並不是因為他的精神
2009-02-04 @ 23:46
迴響 from: DRack [訪問者]
對了...基本上
這些塗鴉也是從 hiphop 來的
2009-02-04 @ 23:50
迴響 from: 由美姬 [訪問者]
看完了這篇...
我又想起了很多人的國文老師...
2009-02-04 @ 23:59
迴響 from: cachet [訪問者]
*****
是的,犯罪增加是有明顯的徵兆

還有很多細小的徵兆,至少有人注意到並提醒是好的

就像他說的不是什麼專家,但敏銳者提醒的是我們警惕的心態
讓更多社會學加注意到這些改變

當有天隔壁便利商店被砸玻璃,家門口滿是啤酒罐跟煙蒂,小學樓梯滿是針管,滿街皆是呼嘯而過的改管,

環境越壞...信仰越重要
一個人振作的第一件事通常是先打掃整理自己的週遭.
2009-02-05 @ 00:07
迴響 from: 丁丁 [訪問者]
記得看過這樣的文章
一個人無意在公廁裡擺了一朵小花
第二個人進來,覺得廁所的小花該擁有一個乾淨的空間,於是打掃了起來..
第三個人進來覺得乾淨又有花,於是錦上添花…噴了些香水…
.
.
.
反之亦然,一開始破壞…接踵而來的效應…就每下愈況了…

祝聚會愉快~會在網路上看各位開心歡聚,我也跟著很開心~^^
2009-02-05 @ 00:30
迴響 from: UZ [訪問者]
2/14....
這到底是阿宅的聚會還是去死團的春酒呀...
2009-02-05 @ 00:43
迴響 from: 祖媽林 [訪問者]
我覺得rammstein講的很有道理
朱桑這篇內容重點不是說開始有人畫graffiti就是治安邁入不好的階段, 而是說出現後被放置沒人清理代表環境已經沒人管理的一種現象.

上面有人說地下電台應該通通被炸掉, 根本就跟朱桑講的沒有關係. 就是要有反對的聲音和不同的想法, 彼此之間互相切磋才可以有所進步. 那些地下電台有些可能真的很胡說八道, 但是有可能只是代表不同意見的聲音. rammstein說的有道理, 要給不同意見以及嚮往改革的聲音留空間.

歐不...離題了.

我同意朱桑的破窗理論, 覺得很有道理. 但是po出來的graffiti也未免太有品質了吧. 已經可以算是種藝術了吧? banksy 原名是不是robert我們是不知道啦~ 還是個謎阿...哈哈
2009-02-05 @ 00:51
迴響 from: Carl [訪問者]
我認為紐約公務機關所做降低犯罪措施並不是什麼嚴刑峻法,而是「公務人員的執行力」有沒有確實執行,與「施政重點」是不是有效果的打中靶。在台灣,很少看見地方公務機關首長或是主管的執行魄力能如此這般貫徹到底,如果我們的公務人員真的那麼樣認真去執行該作的各項工作,很多事情會得到很大的改善,只可惜沒有。

ps.為什麼景氣這麼差,在路上都可以看到最新的BMW各系列在路上跑咧?3最多、5其次、7有幾輛...
2009-02-05 @ 01:06
迴響 from: Paul宅 [訪問者]
可惡...這次沒機會參加阿宅聚會...我2/22才回台灣(殘念)....

sony還是沒有老大的recovery disk, 這次可能無法達成任務幫忙帶回... 只好回台灣找朱大啃大雞排吃水煎包喔~~

(Lucifer:沒想到經由神秘管道我竟然處理好了~~~~驚!台灣真是臥虎藏龍!你應該早點回台灣來科科笑的.....)
2009-02-05 @ 02:35
迴響 from: 小天 [訪問者]
破窗理論如何我不知道,但至少我住的環境的確變得較髒亂了是真的。不過三月後在下就登入國軍On-line了,希望這一年過去能有所改變。
2009-02-05 @ 02:40
迴響 from: Ivy [訪問者]

知道有粉多默默關心愛台灣的宅男、宅女們

或許不知該怎讓台灣渡過這消條的經濟 me 2

..............................分頁線

對了,玉山代表台灣爭取"世界七大自然景觀"投票

鄉親們一起來投票 http://news.msn.com.tw/news1155379.aspx

不論台灣變得如何、我還是愛妳哦

2009-02-05 @ 05:05
迴響 from: 尿布、翅膀、小豎琴 [訪問者]
*****
哈囉朱大

第一次留言XD

我在網誌引用了你的文章,並做了評論︰
http://phiphicake.blogspot.com/2009/02/blog-post_6179.html
2009-02-05 @ 08:51
迴響 from: 阿威 [訪問者]
我是破窗理論的支持者。

不過外國經給國內的和尚讀,是不是也有同樣的效果,這是未來必須觀察的。

換句話說,塗鴉的增加,可能是社會秩序瓦解的先兆,也可能只是從政客到混混,都競相模仿國外,卻缺乏創意的表徵。

麥當勞(與所有速食店),在發源地美國是給窮人與不知道該吃什麼的人吃的;但廿年前引進台灣時卻是流行與昂貴的象徵,至今還是年輕人聚會不知該去哪兒時去那兒的優先選擇之一。你在國外看過老外下了班,約會約在速食店的嗎?

縱然速食店從外觀到口味,國內與國外都相差無幾,但在社經的意義上是滿不同的。(但射精的意義對男人都是相同的)

塗鴉可能也一樣。

也許在台灣,應該看雨衣安全帽被幹了多少,機車鑰匙孔被口香糖ㄍㄡˊ住了多少,我們的窗戶可能在這裡呀!

不一定一個乾淨清潔的塗鴉環境,就在羅斯福路啊!
2009-02-05 @ 09:17
迴響 from: 非宅 [訪問者]
大家都狂買東西
老板就狂賺錢
員工就狂領錢
員工再去狂買東西
經濟一片活絡
其實這樣很茅盾
這些狀況都是針對中上收入的人有好處
貧苦的人永遠趕不上這班列車
貧富差距就在這種情形遠遠的拉大
共產主義還是有不錯的想法
把那些老板地主鬥下台吧
2009-02-05 @ 09:27
迴響 from: 東方宅 [訪問者]
我想到的是因果關係

今天塗鴉與犯罪率本身的高低並沒有關鍵性的影響,但是犯罪率高低的背後與整體社會大環境的
變化有關,所以這是一個雞生蛋,蛋生雞的狀況
,我們可以說,因為治安不好,街上塗鴉變多,
我們也會想到塗鴉變多,是不是街上的環境變糟
了,無庸置疑、塗鴉本身可以是藝術,可以是宣
洩,但當社會上需要出口發洩的人變多了,社會
問題是不是因此也變多了?

這是個很好的警訊,我認為

先不論環境是否引人犯罪這一部分,社會氛圍往下走就是提醒我們是該振作的時候了,這些年來
我認知到一件事,改變往往從自己開始,我想我會開始多留意里鄰的狀況,公園的整潔,這不是要怪誰辦事不力的問題,我們宅眾偉大的精神導師Randy Pausch say:阻礙與問題只是在阻擋
那些"不是真心想要的人",與其每天抱怨我們政府有多爛、效率有多差,不要忘了你的親朋好友可能是公務員,討人厭的政客是我們選出來的
我們都是共犯結構的一環,我們躲不掉責任的好嗎?

在佛家思想中,這叫做共業,我們都在互相影響
如果你相信遠在千里之外的佛州蝴蝶可以引發德州龍捲風,那麼塗鴉代表治安的警訊聽起來有道理多了。
2009-02-05 @ 09:45
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
from: 丁丁
記得看過這樣的文章
一個人無意在公廁裡擺了一朵小花
第二個人進來,覺得廁所的小花該擁有一個乾淨的空間,於是打掃了起來..
第三個人進來覺得乾淨又有花,於是錦上添花…噴了些香水…


====
"一束鮮花"

詳情請參閱老人們的國小課本~~~
2009-02-05 @ 10:04
迴響 from: 白木宅男 [訪問者]

迴響 from: 非宅 [訪問者]
大家都狂買東西
老板就狂賺錢
員工就狂領錢
員工再去狂買東西
經濟一片活絡
其實這樣很茅盾
這些狀況都是針對中上收入的人有好處
貧苦的人永遠趕不上這班列車
貧富差距就在這種情形遠遠的拉大
共產主義還是有不錯的想法
把那些老板地主鬥下台吧
2009-02-05 @ 09:27
---------------------------------------
你這樣說即是表達什麼??
你這樣說會很容易有人曲解!~
2009-02-05 @ 10:05
迴響 from: 迷失羊 [訪問者]
*****
一開始還沒發現日期的玄妙之處
這麼一來......
期待開放報名


這回不會又遇到氣候上的阻礙吧?
2009-02-05 @ 10:30
迴響 from: EHX [訪問者]
說到塗鴉,從台北橋進民權西路騎機車下來,橋下有一幅畫得很遜的警察肖像,大概是要遏止闖紅燈的。(有騎過的,應該都有印象吧)

不知道這算不算塗鴉?如果算,這代表什麼?如果不算,又代表什麼?
2009-02-05 @ 11:16
迴響 from: 追憶似水年華 [訪問者]
*****
2/14宅聚 GOOD IDEA
2009-02-05 @ 11:43
迴響 from: swanky [訪問者] · http://swanbear.blogspot.com/
最後兩張塗鴉是在我們學校球場一面上頭寫著"禁止塗鴉"的牆上照的...
我們學校附近的塗鴉真的是越來越多

反而我家那邊政大附近倒是還好 @@"
2009-02-05 @ 12:06
迴響 from: 丁丁 [訪問者]
感謝baabuu兄指正!
那是憑印象中寫的...所以應該與原文不盡相同~~
2009-02-05 @ 12:26
迴響 from: 小比 [訪問者]
2/14 宅聚+1

(Lucifer:請勿以為在這邊留言就可以去,報名系統是很殘酷的)
2009-02-05 @ 13:09
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
啊啊啊

我沒有要指正啊~~~
只是意境很接近~~~

====
"一束鮮花"
一段一人一花的真情互動~~~

"公廁裡的小花"
廁所裡有一堆人(咳...不是在講都市傳奇)

一段小花與三個陌生人的奇妙旅程~~~

====
起碼後來的人要能對前人所做的事要有所反應啊...
萬一是
前人種樹,
後人落葉掃不完,
火大砍去賣...

====
一個人無意在公廁裡擺了一朵小花

第二個人進來,覺得廁所的小花該擁有一個乾淨的空間,於是打掃了起來..於是就順手把小花帶走了...

第三個人進來覺得乾淨又有花,於是錦上添花…噴了些香水…大叫..."阿怎麼跟丁丁寫的不一樣!!! 小花咧?"










這時應該空無一人的廁所傳出細小微弱的聲音....






花.......花花花...花子在隔壁...這...這這...這裡是男廁...囧





(丁丁:干我屁事...)
2009-02-05 @ 13:42
迴響 from: 打圓場的朱厚宅 [訪問者]
***--
想起小時候在家裡的牆上塗鴉........ 每次都給老爸暴打一頓呢!
2009-02-05 @ 14:11
迴響 from: ham [訪問者]
那鮑許教授的父母就太不一樣了~~~
2009-02-05 @ 15:22
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
*****
還是有人扯些塗鴉的藝術性啦、民眾應該有發洩管道啦、或是警察樣的塗鴉這種少數特例來辯駁,這算是標準的政客嘴砲教戰守則第一條吧.....

不管塗鴉的藝術性如何,民眾是不是該有發聲管道(事實上是有的,大部分人不知道而已)
這改變不了塗鴉本身帶有的【挑戰規範】與【公權力不彰】的意義。這才是重點好嗎~
你們這些離題的臭阿宅懂不懂啊!!!
(好啦我承認也是阿宅)
2009-02-05 @ 15:32
迴響 from: 肉絲馬力 [訪問者]
2月14要參加宅聚的人需不需要自備"去死吧"的紙板標語(像柯董那樣)?
2009-02-05 @ 16:41
迴響 from: 老宅 [訪問者]
*****
老宅男第二次上來發言
我對於朱先生的嚴肅與認真態度覺淂足甘心耶
單刀直入切入主題,贊成失業率升=犯罪率升
不贊成將塗鴨扯上台灣的犯罪問題,原因有二
1,台灣人未甲意這味(不諳此道),頂多就是摹仿而已,時興俺爽這時髦感.
2,按照朱先生的邏輯,80年代的紐約塗鴨最多,可是當時景氣並不蕭條,足見塗鴉與景氣沒必然關係,所以台北的塗鴉增多未必與蕭條有關係.
2009-02-05 @ 17:05
迴響 from: expo [訪問者]
朱大是想要講「小問題不解決,最後會變成大問題」嗎?

這樣看起來,塗鴉跟經濟好像可以扯上一點關係。

這個問題嘛,也許可以看一下美國最近的政策辯論。

Mankiw已經磨刀霍霍準備向Obama開火了。討論的重點在於「那個地方是破窗」:「你說那個地方是破窗,就是破窗嗎?偶偏偏就認為不是啊」。
2009-02-05 @ 17:08
迴響 from: Shirly813_x [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/ellecritique
*----
抱歉 我覺得我是出來討打的 但是我還是想說 研究歸研究 我認為裡面有邏輯性的問題 並且我認為作者你/妳已經主觀的將塗鴉等同於犯罪了 所以我認為有必要將它除罪化

而且 我認為作者你/妳自己已經點出了關鍵:

“你能想像帝寶大樓門口被人噴漆嗎?”

帝寶的門口不可能出現塗鴉 正是因為帝寶的門口”是在一個沒有失序的狀態下”
假設帝寶的住戶哪天突然認為塗鴉具有藝術價值 或許她/他們可以找出一面牆高價請人塗鴉(不過他們不可能) 而這其中的差別只在於前後兩種秩序對塗鴉的定位不同而已 塗鴉是事後發生的現象 前提是失序 如果沒有失序的前提 塗鴉不會自動出現在”製造過程中存在風險”的任何一面牆上

再假設如果任何一位塗鴉創作者都擁有合法創作的空間 她/他們有任何的必要刻意以高風險的方式”宣示”他們的創作行為嘛? 這麼問題的另一種表現方法是: 你們之中任何人有看過書法家硬要到街頭寫字的嗎?(有 我只看過一個 在香港) 而且 作者也說了 “如果失業率上升,很顯而易見的是犯罪率一定會提升。” 顯而易見的 作者自己也知道即使是犯罪 都並不是整個我們看得到的社會現象的誘發因素 而是一種在失業問題後出現的現象之一 文章中說到” 如果塗鴉及髒亂會引發兩倍的人犯下竊盜” 已經明確的用語言告訴我們塗鴉”引發”犯罪 然而是不是有任何人想過 這個邏輯跟 “發燒引發了呼吸系統的感染”一樣可笑 我相信作者不是社會學/社會工作/犯罪學等等這些學科背景的人出身所以很直覺的將兩個現象放在一起討論 但是聯想跟邏輯推混是有差距的 我不認為作者你/妳應該輕率的下這個結論

另外 作者是不是有注意到塗鴉在台北市/縣出現的地點 或許有經濟及地緣上的特徵 我認出了塗鴉圖示的第二張在萬隆羅斯福路附近出現 至少我知道那個位置在地價上較他前後兩個捷運站的週邊地價都來得低 我們也可以思考一下另一個問題 有人在北一女牆上看過塗鴉嘛 如果他出現了塗鴉 會是什麼時候?

(Lucifer:我還是覺得你不是國中就是高中國文學習上出了問題。這樣考閱讀測驗會很低分的。

建議回去找你的老師討論一下怎麼會這樣。

看不懂《科學》上面的研究和搞不清楚塗鴉代表什麼文化意義就可以不要來湊熱鬧呀!)
2009-02-05 @ 17:10
迴響 from: H.Chou [訪問者] · http://blog.yam.com/homerchou/
*****
這代表的其實是一個很簡單的趨勢,目前的社會秩序正在緩緩的瓦解中。
這句話就是台灣現在的寫造~~一點兒沒錯
2009-02-05 @ 17:25
迴響 from: 我有話要說 [訪問者]
這破窗理論 很多人知道
不過一些官緣好像官大就學問大
都不理會民間的疾苦
或許是智者少 愚者多 而這社會又講求民主
治安會惡化是大家都可以預期的
就算將塗鴉給消除 也是一樣
畢竟 我在外縣市看不到羅斯福路的塗鴉
但媒體阿 每天都亂報 脫序的報導 這個才是無能的政府要趕緊糾正的
我本身是從事媒體的 諷刺的是 新聞局只會一直開勸導媒體要謹慎要公正報導 的會議或是聚會 但是就是沒有作為 可以糾舉
當高層無能 下面的媒體當然群魔亂舞
這就是破窗理論 畢竟政府無能
官逼民反 官縱容民反
話說台北之音又換老闆了
討生活真難

那個0214的聚會我想去耶
都沒有見到過朱大啦
怎麼參加阿?


(Lucifer:譬如說把人民大腦都打爛就不會多想也是一個好主意!)
2009-02-05 @ 17:42
迴響 from: 恨 [訪問者]
啊 就是如果尿一直憋不去上
最後就會想一起拉屎啦

(Lucifer:可能會先得尿道炎喔!)
2009-02-05 @ 18:25
迴響 from: colin [訪問者]
*****
小弟沒念啥書 第一次聽到這個理論
不過覺得很有道理
雖然有人提到藝術的切入點
但是小弟仍覺得那是破壞私人財產的行為
如果接受塗鴉者 是創作藝術 在私人財產塗鴉
這樣如果小弟我 是雕刻藝術 然後在你家牆壁打個洞 這些支持者能夠接受嗎??

另外也希望朱大的此篇文章真的可以利用群眾的力量 讓上位者好好想想
就算真的很多人喜歡這些創作者的藝術 那就好好規畫一區給他門好好的畫
就像應該管制飆車的人 讓他門去競技場玩玩 不要違反社會安全

以上小弟淺見
2009-02-05 @ 18:45
迴響 from: Sean [訪問者]
****-

這代表的其實是一個很簡單的趨勢,目前的社會秩序正在緩緩的瓦解中。
這句話就是台灣現在的寫造~~一點兒沒錯
2009-02-05 @ 17:25

我以為十幾年前社會秩序就已經瓦解了,
怎麼到現在還在緩緩的瓦解中,
什麼時候才會瓦解完啊!
反正到時候郝市長不行的話,
就請他老爸郝杯杯出來軍事化管理一下就好了......
2009-02-05 @ 19:56
迴響 from: 丙 [訪問者]
***--
雖然真的算是犯罪,可是塗鴉絕對是一門世界不可或缺的藝術!!!!!!!!
2009-02-05 @ 21:02
迴響 from: S. Peter [訪問者]

樓上的一群人都不能理解小弟努力不讓朱豪宅跳出來在公堂之上提人家老母的苦心……

離題一下,看到「底下的照片都是我請史旺基大人拍的。」,我本來還有點期待有人在牆上噴美女圖……

2009-02-05 @ 21:03
迴響 from: 丙 [訪問者]
***--
這些塗鴉應該讓英明的郝彬彬市長知道,與其拿一堆錢去拍廣告,或是把鋪好沒多久的人行道挖掉,在鋪新的地板,到不如去把塗鴉清掉!
2009-02-05 @ 21:11
迴響 from: 朱恐龍 [成員]
其實.....寫這麼多只是要鋪這個塗鴉的梗。

Lucifer

http://www.wretch.cc/album/show.php?i=azfish&b=8&f=1753109347&p=16


2009-02-05 @ 21:56
迴響 from: martian [訪問者]
我眼力太弱ㄌ~

請問...那是誰?
2009-02-05 @ 22:26
迴響 from: S. Peter [訪問者]

左上角四個字就告訴你了……最近還有哪位「秋意」以頭知名?

2009-02-05 @ 22:28
迴響 from: martian [訪問者]
原來...此秋意 意指 彼ㄑㄧㄡ 一ˋ 呀!!!

明白ㄌ~

謝大大指點迷津!
2009-02-05 @ 22:34
迴響 from: 丁丁 [訪問者]
哈哈哈...
baabuu兄真有創意~~~
稍改一下就變成都市傳奇了..
其實第一個人.第二個人.第三個人...
都是我啦!
因為我特別喜歡那間公廁啊!

秋意正濃...挖勒..這塗鴉...哈哈哈~~~
(對髮兒稀疏的大大們,絕無不敬之意!)
2009-02-05 @ 23:08
迴響 from: 老宅 [訪問者]
建良兄,就跟你說朱大打是情罵是愛了咩!您怎還不懂啊!把屎掛在嘴邊準沒錯啦!甚至謙卑致屎也更好的,朱大這樣說到底可不可以?

(Lucifer:非也非也,我可一點愛都沒有。教育乃百年之大記,PSP乃晚間之娛樂也。)
2009-02-05 @ 23:49
迴響 from: 老宅 [訪問者]
朱大終於垂青我老人家了,感恩中


(Lucifer:因為我PATAPON破關了說!)
2009-02-06 @ 00:05
迴響 from: TK的大佛 [訪問者]
看完上面這一串疑似戰文與所提書籍的網路搜尋後,發現劉sir與朱大所講的根本是兩碼子事。
本文中朱大沒有對塗鴉的藝術性提出任何質疑,他所質疑的是"行為",因為很多塗鴉是在缺乏同意允許之下所完成的,這些枉顧他人同意權的行為會突顯出公權力不彰以及其他社會問題的衍生可能。
所以有本事就像這位女士去爭取到整個社區的認同再來作畫吧。http://www.travel-web.com.tw/Show/Style1/News/c1_News.asp?SItemId=0271030&ProgramNo=a000001000001&SubjectNo=43827

(Lucifer:很多塗鴉藝術家覺得接受安排的繪圖是沒意思的哩~~~)
2009-02-06 @ 00:11
迴響 from: vita [訪問者]
之前去木柵, 路過世新大學附近看到一個塗鴉,
依稀記得畫個人型,依稀記得旁邊寫:
一個人沒有什麼可誇耀時,就誇耀他的國家,
他的國家沒什麼可誇耀的,就誇耀他國家的悲情

不知道有沒有人看過這個塗鴉呢???我應該記的不精確,還是改天再去看它還在不在好了!

那時剛結束一個被問到啞口無言的口試,
才滿心難過覺得憤恨時,
突然看到那個塗上面的文字,
當下蠻震撼,
原本才要開始可憐自己的,
那塗鴉就像在嘲諷我只會擴大自己的蕜傷.....

(淡淡的vita)
2009-02-06 @ 01:12
迴響 from: vita [訪問者]
那個鮮花的故事,
我怎麼記得國小課本是寫有人被送一束花,
那個人的屋子很亂,和花的美不配,
就打掃起屋子,
最後打掃起院子,
不記得有廁所吶!

驚!!!我也是老人!

(明天是結束也是開始的vita)
2009-02-06 @ 01:27
迴響 from: Paul宅 [訪問者]
我也想早回來待久一點科科笑阿...
but a job is a job is a job, especially in current times...
只好繼續為五斗米折腰(嘆)

果然靠台灣特殊管道還是比外包印度tech support有效率多了~~ 請問特殊管道有辦法幫忙修被我娘子不小心請喝了一杯咖啡的vaio電腦嗎?(囧)

(Lucifer:硬體不知道,但軟體有問題是可以全部修復的,而且還可變更強~~~~帥吧)
2009-02-06 @ 02:08
迴響 from: 恨 [訪問者]

朱大意思是說

在街上拉屎是對公權力的一種挑戰

可是沒有說拉屎是一件壞事

2009-02-06 @ 03:00
迴響 from: vita [訪問者]
晚安各位

(覺得今天有點冷的vita)
2009-02-06 @ 03:37
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
溝通真是一件相當困難的事啊........明明講的話沒有負面意義,卻還是會有人覺得有......真是秀才遇到兵,有理說不清了真是.......囧"



大宋提刑官好好看喔......囧"
2009-02-06 @ 08:14
迴響 from: Colin [訪問者]
>>我看其他讀者看我的回應最後都會被引導至:
>>"我這個人根本是來找麻煩的,看不懂還要硬ㄠ之類"
>>算我倒楣,我認栽。

我不會覺得你是來硬凹
我覺得你根本就是沒事找事來筆戰的...
2009-02-06 @ 09:18
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
***--
我總覺得跟情人吵架
舉白旗的那一方, 並不是真的做錯了什麼
而是他比較有能力處理自己的情緒~


(Lucifer:我也覺得通常在法庭上認罪的人是比較有能力處理自己情緒的人。在監獄裡面鐵定有更多機會練習的啦!)
2009-02-06 @ 11:42
迴響 from: 迷失羊 [訪問者]
*****
以上討論串證實
"塗鴉"出現的地方果然容易出現"不可思議事件"
2009-02-06 @ 12:10
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
本人終於了解所謂"閱讀障礙"是什麼樣的症狀了......囧"



本來是想說劉先生如果要出席的話,本人就報名參加,順便看一下這百年難得不世出的奇才是長怎樣,不過既然劉先生沒有空那本人就繼續在家K書.......買了一堆書過年九天竟然連一本都沒有看.....囧"

我沒有覺得劉先生是來找麻煩的,我只是覺得很好笑,好笑的是為什麼你就是看不懂朱大寫的文章勒?還有,原來朱大幾個文字你就覺得人家有負面訊息存在........難怪我也常碰到人家說我討厭她........我他奶奶的只是把她做錯的東西退件、公事公辦..........原來這種人還真不少......囧"
2009-02-06 @ 12:40
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
另,在社會上走跳說的話當然很重要,所以我對我說的每一句話負責,所以我話說出口前都很謹慎,因為我不希望別人把我說的話當放屁!

所以是的!
我所說的每一句話在說出口前都會想審論文一樣嚴格的思考過!
2009-02-06 @ 12:44
迴響 from: NANCY [訪問者]
很少乖乖把朱大文章後的回應看到完的
今天看來真是引人入勝啊(科科笑)

忽然想到一部布萊德彼特的電影Babel
明明都在說人話卻無法溝通
(讓旁觀的人都忍不住焦躁起來了啊)

不就是很簡單易懂的一篇文章嗎??

2009-02-06 @ 15:01
迴響 from: ydnassi [訪問者]
紐約當時塗鴉的意義就是留下自己的名字,
目的是在青少年的徬徨情緒中,找到些甚麼來證明自己,
當你的塗鴉出現在電視影集的街景中,
自己就會有大明星的感覺,藉此滿足自我。

大家都討厭這種製造髒亂事,發展到後來當然有些扭曲了,
他們常常是越顯眼越犯罪越多越好,選擇地點絲毫沒有道德感,
甚至不能使用"買"來的噴漆,一定要用"偷"的;

台灣的塗鴉界,有延續紐約塗鴉"留下名字"的思想,
也有採用紐約當時特定的手法,
但已經不只留下名字而已,還加了符號再創作,

他們有約定成俗的內在文化,譬如,畫太醜的話可以覆蓋,
高手、老手畫的要尊重之類的,
選點也不會故意塗在重要的公共設施上,否則會被他們的人唾棄,
或者那根本是不理解塗鴉內在文化的人幹的,
塗鴉界人士全體就得背這黑鍋,


最大的問題,在於選點,
他們避開大公共空間,都選在都市的邊緣,
河堤、天橋下、工地、廢墟......
容易使某些地方的街容"亂中更亂",
接著就會引起犯罪(大家說了很多了)= =


正因為台灣塗鴉界的發展和紐約犯罪塗鴉是不同出發點,台灣車站和車廂塗鴉還是比較少吧,(廣告倒是很多)
要怎麼訂定好壞分野,也有很廣大的討論空間啊,
在台灣都市計劃中(台灣有都市計畫嗎= =),就該儘量減少這類都市邊緣空間成形,"都市剩餘空間再利用"有很多案例可以參考的,


然後,那些灰撲撲的河堤,還是開放一點點空間來畫,大家覺得怎樣......?


(不要叫我回去找國文老師啦,......)
2009-02-06 @ 16:33
迴響 from: kkk [訪問者]
今天的新聞:
http://1-apple.com.tw/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Article&NewsType=1&showdate=20090206&IssueID=20090206&Sec_ID=2&Art_ID=31371048&ArtPage=1&SubSec=6&PubDate=20090206
(我也不要縮網址!)

市公所的人說的不錯啊.每個人拔兩顆,那還種甚麼.

2009-02-06 @ 16:47
迴響 from: 老宅 [訪問者]
夏夜說:
我總覺得跟情人吵架
舉白旗的那一方, 並不是真的做錯了什麼
而是他比較有能力處理自己的情緒~

No no no,劉兄的問題跟處理情緒無關,而是跟”屎”有關。相反劉兄的EQ跟修養都不錯,錯在對”屎”辨認的sense上。
老宅男對朱大覺得足甘心,主要是對屁、屎、尿暨別人老母的認知很麻吉。

朱大說
「意見這種東西就跟屎一樣,每個人肚子裡面都一堆,拉出來的屎不成形要捧在你自己手上丟人現眼,當然都是你媽的事。但不懂得自己的斤兩,拿出來給大家看還硬要抹到別人臉上就是家教的問題了。」

恨回應說
「朱大意思是說

在街上拉屎是對公權力的一種挑戰

可是沒有說拉屎是一件壞事」
妙哉善哉,剛辭世的聖嚴,各位大大在媒體都看到這報導吧:有一位白目的男信眾,看著聖嚴大師的盤中飧,說:「師父,我要吃你盤裡的東西」哪知聖嚴不假思索馬上端給這白目男:「你吃吧」一旁的信眾都看傻眼了。
其實,這師父弟子間是充滿禪意的,他主要是想吃師父的料,看拉出來的屎會有何不同?
劉兄比較令我關心的,是要加強sense這東東,還屎鴨子嘴硬。屎料未及的被問候母親,但朱大承認尊母為大,可劉兄不相信,沒給朱大問候回來。如果劉兄回應「你娘也卡好,好朋友握握手?」其他屁話別再多說,相信會有不同的結果。
劉兄了解屎的來源,屎的構造,可就沒感覺到屎的意義在哪?老宅男最近有個朋友,盡放臭屁,老宅於是對他說:面對屎、接受屎、處理屎、放下屎。拉出來吧!
2009-02-06 @ 17:20
迴響 from: Black Sabbath - 結晶體 [訪問者]
*****
昨日是我的生日,但是卻發生了小插曲。

我上網買了京劇光碟給爺爺欣賞,結果在貨運來時商品遭竊,貨運打來報告。

誰料道十幾分鐘後家人接到這光碟,我家老人不察,被歹徒拿走了錢。光碟是有收到就是了。

事後我回家方才發現是歹徒所為,並且假裝是貨運外務人員詐財,偷了東西>送給買家>照單取錢,我隨即就報了警。波利士大人表示歹徒只偷到這樣貨品。

但是我就是搞不懂
這套光碟僅僅1300,還要冒風險來送貨,到底歹徒是窮成怎樣子?

另外友人與女友下班回家晚歸,也被搶劫,是在大安森林公園附近...被搶了兩千多元。我朋友還是個彪形大漢,可惜跑不快,被歹徒逃了。

反社會性有小看大,我相信"搶我朋友的歹徒"當下心理壓力不會比"擄人勒贖"要小。心理選擇上這就是個做與不做的問題。

塗鴉的部份她目前就是違法的,在此刻風雨飄搖的時候法律執行應當不允許有一絲退讓。如此才能安定民心。
若是以後法定開放塗鴉空間,我倒是樂見其成。

而我也相信此時此刻台灣的治安正在惡化當中。建議女性網友們晚上不要出去亂晃。



好,問題來了,老劉,妳怎麼整天跟站長爭論阿?
2009-02-06 @ 19:46
迴響 from: rammstein [訪問者]
既然都有主管總結心得報告了 我現在才來唬帳笙歌就顯得太晚了
首先 這理論叫破窗理論 而不是塗鴉理論阿!
我覺得塗鴉在台灣的文化脈絡肯定跟紐約不同
但以別的取樣來驗證破窗理論仍是可行的
像 公館的塗鴉鐵定比三重多 但三重比公館髒
犯罪率也更高
(姑且不論台大那種畫得很菁英的或三重的越南新娘好工人的審美差異)
但這兩個區域的規劃歷史也是截然不同的
國家機器在公館這種布爾喬亞社區近百年排他 去脈絡的包裝 吾以為 簡直像許純美學猴的偽善性 激的吾這種憤青就是想給他潑糞啥麼的
是故 我覺得公館的塗鴉會不會讓該地區治安變差
我倒頗不以為然 但說不定會有更多憤青用更直截的手段挑戰公權力吧
話說回來 三重就不一樣了 這個無政府式(或 政府共謀分贓)的混亂開發造成處處有暗巷 戶戶沒明室 再加上住民經濟上多是自營或勞工階級
受到經濟衝擊絕對比公館木柵一帶來的嚴重
三重很大 恕吾不詳述其間差異 當然 蘆洲線完工等於政府高密度監控的植入 說不定會是個很大的變數(或 台北捷運神話破功?)
舉這兩個地區只因為我在這兩地生活好幾年 一家之言 不必太認真
結論就是 如果公館那天治安真的差過台北縣 那煩請各位 真的是起而革命或移民
2009-02-06 @ 20:05
迴響 from: Black Sabbath - 結晶體 [訪問者]
備註:村上隆的演講百分之四十的人提早離席。內容讓人覺得他當"大師"當的很懵懂,糊裡糊塗的創作而大紅,文頭文尾之藝術邏輯並不契合,很酷。有興趣的人可以去找相關資料來看看。
2009-02-06 @ 20:31
迴響 from: 張大俠 [訪問者] · http://changjiinglang.blogspot.com/
****-
1. 這次好像沒有老陳的梗...
2009-02-06 @ 21:34
迴響 from: 犬子皿可可 [訪問者]
突然很想吃雞排
2009-02-06 @ 22:51
迴響 from: 看恐龍的文別太認真 [訪問者]
***--
這只是篇充滿階級意識狂妄與偏見的偽評論

豬學橫的文章一向如此,搞不懂幹嘛有人會蠢到跑來這地方跟無腦的粉絲論戰

這傢伙的無腦意見不會引起太多有格調的回應,因為這人不管再怎麼有名,依舊也只是個小咖,對整個社會毫無影響力,更無實質貢獻,只是個偶然中抓到社會脈動風向後,便死命抓緊、拼命藉機撈取名利的咖罷了。

不信?有本事就去從政,看看多少人會開使拿它的一言一行開刀,到時候本人跟粉絲就會知道自己到底有多少本事。




帝寶大樓門口不會發生犯罪嗎?犯罪率有低到產生任何意義嗎?

破窗理論一點意義都沒有,充其量只是拿來當作偽議題、好轉移大眾對公眾事件焦點的發言,連理論都稱不上。



啊!別公幹我,因為我不會回應,那沒有意義,只是看到有人這麼努力,實在不忍心讓它太孤獨。
2009-02-07 @ 03:27
迴響 from: Black Sabbath - 結晶體 [訪問者]
*****
誰你他媽粉絲,我還板條咧。
等朕明天看完太陽馬戲團好好來教育教育你"什麼叫做用腦袋"。


2009-02-07 @ 03:46
迴響 from: Black Sabbath - 結晶體 [訪問者]
粉丝
维基百科,自由的百科全书

粉絲
粉絲是中國常見的食品之一,往往又叫做粉条丝、冬粉(主要在台灣),日本稱春雨,朝鮮半島稱唐麵,越南稱麵。最好的粉丝是以綠豆製成,也可由玉米淀粉或者地瓜淀粉制作,但品质不如绿豆粉丝,因绿豆中的直链淀粉最多,煮时不易烂,口感最为滑腻。類似細麵條狀,乾燥後販賣,食用前最好先泡水讓它柔軟,粉絲的直径一般在0.5毫米左右,這也是它有「絲」之名的由來。在中國,最著名的粉絲是龙口粉丝。

"fans"有這麼難打嗎?
粉絲粉絲..靠杯咧,食物還是形容詞?
黃毛小子回去追妳的棒棒堂啦。
2009-02-07 @ 03:52
迴響 from: 老宅男 [訪問者]
to結晶體
你樓上的其實是侮辱到劉兄,至於判斷一個人對社會的貢獻度,若是以從政與否來衡量的話,那麼他連吃屎的資格都沒了。
2009-02-07 @ 09:06
迴響 from: 看恐龍的文別太認真 [訪問者]
*----
【讓自己的意見完整一點,想公幹我的歡迎自取,保證全天候無限亮供應,而且絕對不會正面回應。】


看看從上數下來第六跟第七張圖,多醜的環境啊!

感謝那些塗鴨,讓環境整體舒服許多。

請問在塗鴉出現之前,有人去關心市容嗎?很顯然的沒有,豬恐龍和它的糞絲們也不會,(上面用錯字了,是【糞】不是【粉】。)

為何?

我相信豬恐龍不是住在那樣的環境,而是住在比較接近帝寶大樓這樣的環境中,居民的心靈狀態處於和奘狀態、或是那地方的實際治安,對它來說一點意義也沒有。

『喔!那地方充滿了塗鴉,我一點都無法欣賞,只是覺得那裡好神祕、好詭異,一定有什麼黑暗、且危險的東西在那裡活動......』



死布爾喬雅除了關心自己的生活和既得利益以外,對整個社會一點責任感也沒有。

(Lucifer:錯字太多很尷尬,和奘是什麼啦?國文老師再度在角落飲泣....)
2009-02-07 @ 13:34
迴響 from: 東方宅 [訪問者]
這明明就是觀感的問題

為什麼偏偏就有人一定要針對破窗理論不周全
塗鴉被打壓之類的,明明就只是說,嘿大夥!
好好注意我們的環境,最近塗鴉有增多的趨勢
這有可能是治安變壞的警示

就這樣

跟塗鴉是不是藝術
破窗理論適不適用在台灣
這篇文章一點都沒有要解釋這些阿

帝保前面就算發生犯罪,SO WHAT~!!!
我只知道如果我家前面有警衛,我會住的
比較安心,我只知道如果我住的地方
到處都被塗鴉,我會很擔心走在路上的安危

不認同塗鴉變多或破窗理論,就不認同啊
跟階級意識、法西斯、偏見有關係嗎?
提出個反例出來吧!像是塗鴉很酷,我家附近
一堆塗鴉,治安卻好到不敢相信這樣

這篇文明明就不是啥學術論作,也不是批判塗鴉
更不是來證明住帝飽治安就好,還是我的理解力
出了問題?


2009-02-07 @ 13:45
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
就好像我根本不在乎什麼在住宅的大門口、電梯加裝門禁管制卡的裝置是否違反建築法,我只他馬的希望藉此可以阻擾一些小偷........同理,我哪管你這個塗鴉的樣式是你花了多少時間構思、花了多少時間完成、有多漂亮,如果我家附近出現了塗鴉卻又一直沒有人處理,我只會覺得我納的稅是都被花到哪裡去了?公務人員都在幹什麼吃的?

-----------
2009-02-07 @ 13:58
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
還好我妹沒有買櫻桃包....不然我肯定跟她絕交XD~
2009-02-07 @ 14:03
迴響 from: S. Peter [訪問者]

樓上有人重複發言太頻繁,內容長太像,而被當成SPAM的樣子……

還是忘了取消打勾?


「想公幹我的歡迎自取」

這種要求我這輩子沒聽過。這告訴我們也不可以宅過頭飢渴成這樣子……你要知道,恐龍大有一陣子很喜歡貼阿宅屁股圖,講這種話讓人誤會就不好了……
2009-02-07 @ 15:57
迴響 from: rammstein [訪問者]
個人理解力是娘生上帝造 怪不得人的
像我的數字理解力就很差 面對別人的指正 我不管是不是學術論文還是每日結流水帳我都不會為自己辯解 立正道歉先
介紹一個我家旁邊的社區 叫Moorooka
http://maps.google.com/maps?imgsz=xxlarge&um=1&hl=zh-TW&lr=lang_zh-TW&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:zh-TW:official&q=korean%20BBQ&ndsp=18&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=il

(太遠可能看不到 但塗鴉真的很猛)
這個地方住一大票非洲難民 放眼皆是工廠跟調車場
有著吾以為全市最強悍最大區域的塗鴉(看過整個調車場連車帶鐵軌都被畫的嗎?)
可是 這裡真的純樸的很 比起市中心Valley動不動有人酒醉打破頭 這真的雞犬相聞的好所在
當然 非洲人可愛歸可愛 講話聽歌音量之大不是吾輩可理解的

這裡的塗鴉應該跟幫派無關 是白人還是非洲人幹的我也不知道 QR是花很多錢在清啦 但我說真的
B市的犯罪就是酒醉鬧事窮人搶菸超車吵架出人命
塗鴉市區郊區處處有 但真的危險的地方反而是有不睡覺閒人可以通霄狂歡的中國城一帶

會住窮區跟去市中心狂歡的人社經地位可能不同
但不同文化背景同樣影響其價值觀與面對挫折的處理模式
這世上就有人能窮快活 也有人沒事找煩惱


我舉例了 但一定有人說又不是台灣(紐約好像也不在台灣說) 所以拉...
就說過請你們革命或移民嘛....
2009-02-07 @ 16:20
迴響 from: rammstein [訪問者]
靠唄連接貼錯了
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=zh-TW&geocode=&q=Moorooka+QLD,+%E6%BE%B3%E6%B4%B2&sll=33.365244,-111.857963&sspn=67.245731,147.304688&ie=UTF8&ll=-27.529128,153.025131&spn=0.03623,0.071926&z=14&iwloc=addr&layer=c&cbll=-27.537269,153.013916&panoid=O6xqbwrrUF1c_7jQuOfWnA&cbp=12,273.8883737506956,,0,3.258976344782196
2009-02-07 @ 16:23
迴響 from: 呼拉圈 [訪問者]
真是越扯越遠了
重點是在於...
路人看到塗鴉沒有及時被清除,就會"比較容易"衍生犯罪的欲望啊,這跟塗鴉的藝術性一點關係都沒有,只跟管理密度的象徵有關係

2009-02-07 @ 16:42
迴響 from: 一個想作點事情的學生 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/shlutow
朱學恆你好
我是一個默默低調的大學生= =ll

看完這篇論點很有感觸
而實際上塗鴉對我來說我不知道這是藝術或是隨性惡搞
只不過真的看到太多所謂破窗帶來的影響

那想請問一下身為一個大學生(或者說是很閒沒事幹的死大學生)
有什麼方法,盡一己之力改變這種現象呢

我想到了幾點
1.寫信給政府官員,或是copy這篇文章給他們看
(不過感覺被直接忽略的可行性低= =)(或是給民意代表?!)
2.親自到警察局向警方形容這現象
(但感覺警察沒有能力除去這些塗鴉景觀)(或是不想?!)
3.親自去把這些塗鴉除去
(不過感覺如果警察巡邏到不就變成我是賊?!)

塗鴉感覺不只是台北會有的現象了
我是居住在台北的嘉義人,嘉義台北都有這些情形發生
而上面幾層樓所說的「避開大公共空間」我發現並沒有做到
而是故意在「高難度」的地方去挑戰,越顯眼越好

我只是一個想作點事情的大學生
希望朱大能幫忙提供點意見,謝謝

(Lucifer:我覺得你説的這些都可以嘗試呀!萬一不管用我們再來想別的!)
2009-02-07 @ 16:45
迴響 from: 看恐龍的文別太認真 [訪問者]
*----
塗鴉為何會被跟犯罪率連上線?

坦白講,如果有人白目到走進別人家院子、客廳或玄關去塗鴉,那直接找警察來處理就好,因為這是犯罪

可是事實很明顯,塗鴉大部分都是發生在中間灰色地帶,例如沒啥人管的公共空間,或是物主疏於管理照顧的開放場所。

認為塗鴨會是種不好的行為,可能是因為大家把這些空間視為個人產物,就好像有人會把腦筋動到賣空氣、註冊DNA...這種行為上,都是把應該屬於公共財的東西化為個人產物

能不能塗鴉?我不管,先聲明,免得有人就抓著一句【要不要開放你家門讓人家塗鴉?】來質疑我,重點是很多地方就算不塗鴉,客觀條件來看本身就已經是犯罪率偏高的地方了,為何還要發明【破窗理論】?

況且,塗鴉看了讓人反感?很多角落沒有塗鴉也讓人看了心煩,看看豬恐龍附的圖片就知道,工地圍牆上佈滿鐵鏽?破舊的建築缺乏清潔管理?.....到底哪個比較讓人生厭?

啊!偉大的豬恐龍已經說是塗鴉了,一堆無腦人通通無意見贊同。放著讓自己家門口爛成那樣不犯法,塗鴉卻變成讓社會秩序崩潰的禍源?這真是讓我感動,偉大的布爾喬雅就是有這種權力,【我是布爾喬雅,我的品味比別人高,不是因為我有品味,而是因為我是布爾喬雅。】




從另一方面說明,從來就沒有證據證明塗鴉跟反社會有關,有部紀錄片叫【鴉之王道】,看看塗鴉客長什麼樣、或看看他們懷抱著什麼樣的心理
認定塗鴉跟反社會有關,這種意見就跟觀光客走進非洲大草原,看到原住民就掉眼淚,基本上沒啥太大差別

所以我說引用【破窗理論】的人,基本上心態都有問題。




想公幹我的請自便啦

很高興看到有人公幹我不用髒字,這是社會水準提升的徵兆
2009-02-08 @ 01:03
迴響 from: Glass [訪問者] · http://home.gamer.com.tw/adolphho
迴響 from: 丁丁 [訪問者]
記得看過這樣的文章
一個人無意在公廁裡擺了一朵小花
第二個人進來,覺得廁所的小花該擁有一個乾淨的空間,於是打掃了起來..
第三個人進來覺得乾淨又有花,於是錦上添花…噴了些香水…

第四個人進來,看到了乾淨、清香的環境--接著立刻搬了張桌子到廁所門口,開始收費入場


好吧--我跟霧丸是麻吉 = =

======================

迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
難怪我也常碰到人家說我討厭她........我他奶奶的只是把她做錯的東西退件、公事公辦..........原來這種人還真不少......囧"

被這段話電到(被砍文者通常的質疑態度)--不過這種人不算少數啦,現代教育方式造成的問題嗎? (偏頭~

=======================

回正題--

塗鴉與犯罪率的比例部分,勿庸置疑

希望是自己想多了--更擔心的是塗鴉無人清除的原因與影響

如果是人力、疏忽等等較單純的原因還好,這種的死命催逼就會有效果產生

就怕是腦袋不知道裝著什麼的上位者,認為放任這些就代表自己了解新新人類而放任
與藝術鼓吹者疏忽掉合法性的拼命維護,造成下一代的是非觀念更加離譜罷了
2009-02-08 @ 01:17
迴響 from: 東方宅 [訪問者] Email
WOW 一下子就被教育了

rammstein&不認真看文但努力回文的兄弟

我必須說你們是對的
這些例子是很好的論點

塗鴉數目多寡不代表現階段治安的好壞
更何況治安好壞本身就是觀感問題了
我覺得糟,只是我覺得罷了

alright 就不談塗鴉的性質與破窗理論的洞了
我知道破窗理論漏洞百出,塗鴉也並非大奸大惡

你們強調犯罪率跟塗鴉行為沒有之接關聯
本身犯罪率高的地方塗鴉本來就多,不是
塗鴉影響的 對!沒錯

但是塗鴉在蔓延擴散,這是個"警訊"
代表治安的警訊,這一點是無庸置疑的吧?

既然犯罪率高的地方塗鴉多,那我們週遭環
塗鴉變多,不就代表治安惡化?
千錯萬錯本來就不是塗鴉的錯
今天我沒有看不起塗鴉的意思
更不是放任自身週遭的環境
我之所以認同這篇文章
因為我也覺得這是個很好的"警訊"

今天不管是三不管地帶,公共財
無人維護的私人財產
任何人都無權去改變的,除非是物主認可
任何人都沒有權力去塗鴉,無人的房子也好
空曠的鐵路調度場也好,沒有人有這樣的權利

人的自由是在不侵害他人的自由下成立
今天沒人看管的地方,就可以塗鴉?
公共財不代表任何人都可以去"侵犯"好嗎?
正因為是多數人所共有,除了公權力沒有人
可以動它,這不是什麼詭異的意識形態
這是尊重
有人喜歡就有人討厭
那些討厭塗鴉的人就活該倒楣要被塗鴉傷害眼睛
嗎?寫這樣是很極端
但這是道德問題,也是事實
這才是所謂的Free Will

你們不覺得塗鴉是不好的行為 So be it
但是也不要反對我覺得塗鴉是種威脅
我資質魯鈍到無法認同它是種藝術

對了,要清塗鴉,別煩惱
找里長最快,我家附近公園不知道被噴了幾次
附近住戶有時還主動自己清

2009-02-08 @ 02:51
迴響 from: 發條烏鴉 [訪問者]
塗鴉的藝術性或是背後的含意不論
光就心理學的角度,塗鴉的環境對於人的影響,就是會間接的增加犯罪率的發生。

就像樓上有人說的,去到新加坡看到乾淨的街道就自然而然的讓人不會想去亂丟垃圾破壞環境。

我想可以從這個角度去思考。

就像之前看過一則新聞,日本某個小鎮研究發現,夜間環境照明採用偏藍色的光可以降低犯罪率的發生,一樣很有意思。

所以在這邊去爭論塗鴉者的藝術背景,文化思想我想跟這個主題是兩條平行線吧

2009-02-08 @ 03:15
迴響 from: windseeker [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/windseeker
在我看來
朱大這篇文章重點根本不在塗鴉,拿塗鴉以外的例子也是可以的。

更何況,這世界種種人事物都是有層次的,朱大只不過把塗鴉"挑戰公權力"這一層面提出來,當做一種極度不嚴謹的參考指標而已。

這樣的文章只是一種能找到根據的觀點,甚至一種牢騷,論點不算圓滿,但算是沒有不合裡或著歧視的地方--因為朱大把它們忽略了,因為這篇文章不討論這些東西嘛。

乍看之下,把塗鴉看成"挑戰公權力"的代表似乎表示了作者將塗鴉視為一種罪惡,應當被清除,然而真的是這樣嗎?當然不是,一來這篇文不討論這個,二來作者澄清過。

BTW
劉sir 想必飽讀詩書而暈頭轉向,與朱大一來一往,精彩絕倫,佩服佩服。

我想朱大的確"打是情罵是愛",不然那位"看恐龍的文別太認真"的靠夭朱大怎會理都不理呢?相對比較,劉先生真的有救,另一個沒救了埋了吧。

來浪費生命一下...

回:"看恐龍的文別太認真"

你跟朱恐龍很熟嗎?你又知道他是高傲蠻橫蓋高尚的布爾喬亞?
這種口吻跟那些喊愛呆丸支那人滾出去的人一模一樣。

你知到甚麼是破窗效應嗎?人家劉先生和朱恐龍家裡都有不只一本書可以到你床邊念給你聽,就怕天亮了你的字還會寫錯。

其實你要怎麼亂都沒關係,那一句"我不會正面回應"早已到盡了全天下網友們在看到你的回應之後那短暫微不足道的不屑。
2009-02-08 @ 04:57
迴響 from: 丁丁 [訪問者]
Glass霧丸大大
你會發喔!真的...

東方宅兄說得好+1

2009-02-08 @ 11:27
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
"想公幹我的請自取".....我們都很挑的!

"我不會正面回應".....因為你沒有正面嗎?(有都市傳說的味道.....囧")
2009-02-08 @ 11:37
迴響 from: YEAH~ [訪問者]
TO:ㄧ個想作點事情的學生
很樂見你的用心,還有點感動哩...
不管成效如何,台灣的未來需要像你這樣誠心誠意的好孩子!加油~~

哈哈哈...ninny寫的"正面"都市傳說..讓我想到沒有五官的鵝蛋臉傳說~~亂驚悚的~~ㄎㄎ..
2009-02-08 @ 11:53
迴響 from: 老宅男 [訪問者]
to東方宅兄+1
windseeker兄+2
劉兄+3
2009-02-08 @ 16:53
迴響 from: CC [訪問者]
老實說我一直以為台北市是沒有槍戰的
但最近槍戰發生在台北市的頻率越來越密集
讓我有點驚嚇

前陣子若是有人問我台北市長是誰
我還真的要想一下
最近差不多快要開始為選舉鋪路
郝市長又常常露臉了
當然露臉也有部分是為了那天殺的貓纜就是了...
還有台北市公家單位越做越像十幾年前那種感覺...
總之現在很多台北市政狀況讓人越看越生氣
2009-02-09 @ 06:54
迴響 from: NANCY [訪問者]
天啊
居然還沒完沒了啊~~~
我看完這篇文章時,
只把到處出現的塗鴉跟沒人管理的城市聯想在一起而已.
腦中浮現的是,當年在紐約地鐵站看到滿地的黑點點,後來才知是口香糖~~~
沒人清沒人理,口香糖被踩到不黏之後變成了地板的花紋~~
那幾年,地鐵站裡不時傳出夜晚有人被推落鐵軌的事件,
但是當強力水柱出現把一塊塊口香糖殘渣消滅的同時~~~夜晚坐地鐵的恐懼感就逐漸消失了

這是我對本文的理解,說錯的話請見諒
不要罵我的國文老師,更不要罵我的爸媽.謝謝

ps.如果一開始舉的例子不是塗鴉而是口香糖渣渣~~不知會怎樣??
2009-02-10 @ 15:49
迴響 from: S. Peter [訪問者]

> 迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
>"想公幹我的請自取".....我們都很挑的!
>
>"我不會正面回應".....因為你沒有正面嗎?(有
>都市傳說的味道.....囧")

不是沒有正面啦,只是人家可能比較喜歡人家從他後面來,所以他會用後面來回應你的公幹……
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmxCnvP_40E
2009-02-11 @ 11:37
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
原來他有這種屁好啊........囧"
失禁~失禁~
2009-02-11 @ 12:22
剛剛看到一則新聞「隨意塗鴉 北市環保局開出首張6000元罰單」~

是首次開出,真應該要紀念一下,感謝這兩位外國朋友。

http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/090218/1/1ep1z.html

『台北市中正區羅斯福路四段42號商家的鐵捲門、及88號騎樓樑柱,今天(18號)凌晨遭到兩名外籍人士,隨意以油漆塗鴉,一名計程車司機剛好經過,立即通報警察局現場逮捕,經過筆錄之後,臺北市環保局立即依「廢棄物清理法」第27條,罰處這兩名外籍人士,6,000元最高罰款,而這也是台北市首度因為民眾街頭隨意塗鴉,遭到取締開罰的案例。台北市環保局表示,台北市在五處河濱公園部分防洪牆上,設有合法塗鴉專區;市區公園例如大安森林公園、南港公園、士林天母公園、及北投長安公園等,也有部分牆面提供民眾塗鴉,不過民眾在非開放的區域隨意塗鴉,環保局會加強取締開罰。』
2009-02-19 @ 00:31
迴響 from: 阿布 [訪問者]
*****
朱哥:您好

http://udn.com/NEWS/DOMESTIC/DOM2/4744096.shtml

上面是最近一則有關台北市塗鴉的新聞,想起朱哥您憂國憂民之心且常常獨自哭泣,無以釋懷的我,無論如何也要來通知你這個新聞,請享用。
2009-02-19 @ 09:46
迴響 from: 阿布 [訪問者]
樓上不同連結,同一則新聞,我op了~~~~~
2009-02-19 @ 09:47
迴響 from: Test [訪問者]
親愛的市民朋友您好:
有關您於98年2月9日寄給郝市長的電子信件說明「…街頭塗鴉增加,可能提高犯罪業…」部落格一節,市長非常重視,特別交代本局處理,本局向您說明如下:對於文中所提及塗鴉對於市容的影響,本局深感認同,同時感謝您熱心的提供資料。本府警察局即日起已結合本局加強夜間巡查,發現違規塗鴉者將處以重罰,並於 98年2月18日凌晨兩名外籍人士於臺北市中正區羅斯福路四段42號鐵捲門及88號騎樓樑柱,以油漆塗鴉,經一名計程車司機發現後立即通知警局現場逮捕,經完成筆錄後,由本局立即依「廢棄物清理法」第27條第2款,處以6,000元最高罰鍰,復於98年2月19日上午10時由市長召開記者會,重申本府重罰的決心並前往羅斯福路帶頭清除街頭塗鴉。對於民間建築物遭塗鴉之區域,本局將在建築物所有人同意下,給予協助清除,希望能還給市民一個乾淨的市容,並藉由提高罰款及檢舉獎金,期能有效改善本市塗鴉情況。
另針對羅斯福路從和平東路到新生南路段塗鴉很多部分,可能造成危害治安的效應本府警察局已責由轄區大安分局及中正第二分局加強查緝,要求所屬各轄區分局針對轄內易發生塗鴉案件之區域、地點,例如工地圍籬、空屋、建築物鐵門、外牆、柱子、橋樑、橋墩等場所,加強巡邏查察,且在夜間較易塗鴉時段規劃勤務增加勤務執行密度,除加強防範塗鴉行為發生,並以取締塗鴉人到案為首要目標,以有效遏止塗鴉行為繼續蔓延。
最後感謝您關心環保事務,,日後若有其他相關環保建議事項,歡迎來電1999轉1751承辦人林小姐聯繫或本府警察局承辦人吳山連聯絡(電話:2331-3561轉2068),並祝您健康愉快。
臺北市政府環境保護局 局長倪世標敬上
2009-02-23 @ 11:57
迴響 from: Sheng [訪問者]
*****
謝謝您對塗鴉事情的提醒。有朋友將您的文章轉寄給我,我也隨即在三週前的市政會議中提出。市長會中指示把清除和取締塗鴉作為重要項目,要求警察局和環保局全面處理,也提高了市民檢舉獎金。日前逮捕到了兩位塗鴉人士,未來也會繼續嚴格執法。再次謝謝您的提醒,也為市府未能在第一時間成功防範隨意塗鴉致歉。

台北市政府研考會主委 盛治仁 敬上
2009-02-24 @ 08:30
迴響 from: SJY [訪問者]
****-
The price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance.

由小觀大,察覺到未來可能會出現問題時現在就該開始想為什麼,就該開始準備處理,就該開始有反應。

塗鴉的藝術性無庸置疑,但也要看在什麼地方發揮。人說甩尾是人與機械之間合作演出的藝術表演,但我們應該放任甩尾高手在公路上"撇輪",讓他們不顧他人生命財產安全的表現他們的"藝術"麼? 同理可證,塗鴉再怎樣的具有藝術性,在不該出現的地方就是不該出現。

至於"凸顯了正確發聲管道的缺乏,才會有人選擇【對抗社會秩序】的方式"在多數的塗鴉中並不成立,沒有針對性的塗鴉就只是個人的發洩。就算創作的起因(有意識或無意識的)是為了要發聲,旁人無法理解,無法引起共鳴,則一切都是虛,而社會並無責任為個人的虛付出代價。




2009-02-28 @ 00:58
迴響 from: leoliao [訪問者]
在發生了案件之後
再回頭來看這篇文章
真是感受良多....
2009-03-10 @ 01:19
迴響 from: 白目居易 [訪問者]
*----
你們不要再在朱家門上塗鴨了啦

為了維護blog門風降低犯罪率並提高點閱經濟效益

人家當然要誓死維護啦 誰管你有沒有理

還想論理 就是傻B來的了

顆顆
2009-04-14 @ 01:08
迴響 from: Jonathen Lin [訪問者]
倒果為因的推論,在歐美地區,塗鴉早就是長達三十多年歷史的次文化一環,硬要把這和治安或者社會秩序扣連結,就像去指責龐克搖滾造成社會人心敗壞一樣,完全搞錯方向。

塗鴉不見得好,有的也的確擾人沒錯,但要把塗鴉當成刺激,社會秩序敗壞當成反應,這種思考也太粗糙,太行為主義了。這種幼稚推論要是能夠成立,那台北公館大概是全台灣治安最差的地區了。

紐約的塗鴉現象還有很大一部份,來自Bronx的貧民區與黑人社群,他們年輕人用這種表現形式來凸顯自身群體的弱勢處境,結果你現在說是塗鴉造成社會失序以及之後可能隨之而來的貧窮,會不會太好笑了點?有時候,自己不懂的社會現象,或許還是先多閱讀一些資料,才不會連基本常識都弄錯,還被市政府當成值得思考的方向,乾脆台灣變成新加坡不是更棒?口香糖到處亂吐沒人清也是一種社會失序啊,多糟啊。

(Lucifer:台北公館的單車失竊率的確是全台北市最高科科科~~~
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我說道:
凡作賊者必定心虛(註)---所以公車司機知道,同學知道,最後........大家都知道了。

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