朱恐龍
朱恐龍

總是和雞蛋站在同一邊:給現在和未來的自己,以及有一天會成為主人的你們。 (247552 views)
     

本人並不是村上春樹迷。

我看村上春樹作品的原因單純只是因為故事好看。


裡面有什麼寓意,他最近有沒有跑步,我都不太在乎。

我上次看他的書好像是羊男,好像超過十年前了。

所以,我當然不知道他今年二月獲得耶路撒冷文學獎。



我更不知道他得到的獎項是像東方日報報導的一樣:「耶路撒冷文學獎創辦於1963年,每兩年頒發一次,意在表彰其作品涉及人類自由、人與社會和政治間關係的作家。往屆得主包括亞瑟‧米勒、蘇珊‧桑塔格、伯特蘭‧羅素、VS.奈波爾、J.M.柯慈、博爾赫斯、米蘭‧昆德拉、西蒙‧波娃、奧克塔維奧‧帕斯(Octavio Paz, 1914-1998,墨西哥詩人、散文家)和巴爾加斯‧略薩等人,皆為大名流。耶路撒冷書展在其官方網站上形容,村上乃「當代最偉大的作家之一」,其作品已被譯成40種語言,廣受嘉許,在以色列,他也是讀者最多的外國作家之一。該獎聲明讚揚 了村上的藝術成就和「對人民的愛」,並稱:「他的人道主義清晰地呈現於其作品中。」第24屆耶路撒冷國際書展將於2月15日至20日舉行。村上春樹將於書展開幕當天在耶路撒冷國際會議中心受獎。」

但我今天才看到他在眾人的反對中親自前往戰火仍酣的加薩演講,那場演講的內容讓我被感動了。

所以雖然有別人將其翻成了中文,但我還是決定自己來把這篇演講翻成中文。因為這是我自己真正對一場好演講致敬的方法,那也是別人和別的方法取代不了的。

總是要和弱者站在同一邊,我希望能夠拿這句話勉勵自己,和有一天會成為這世界主人的你們。

Follow up:

總是和雞蛋站在同一邊

村上春樹於耶路撒冷文學獎

我是以小說家的身份來到耶路撒冷,也就是說,我的身份是一個專業的謊言編織者。

當然,說謊的不只是小說家。我們都知道,政客也會。外交人員和軍人有時也會被迫說謊,二手車業務員,屠夫和工人也不例外。不過,小說家的謊言和其他人不同的地方在於,沒有人會用道德標準去苛責小說家的謊言。事實上,小說家的謊言說的越努力,越大、越好,批評家和大眾越會讚賞他。為什麼呢?

我的答案是這樣的:藉由傳述高超的謊言;也就是創造出看來彷彿真實的小說情節,小說家可以將真實帶到新的疆域,將新的光明照耀其上。在大多數的案例中,我們幾乎不可能捕捉真理,並且精準的描繪它。因此,我們才必須要將真理從它的藏匿處誘出,轉化到另一個想像的場景,轉換成另一個想像的形體。不過,為了達成這個目的,我們必須先弄清楚真理到底在自己體內的何處。要編出好的謊言,這是必要的。

不過,今天,我不準備說謊。我會盡可能的誠實。一年之中只有幾天我不會撒謊,今天剛好是其中一天。

讓我老實說吧。許多人建議我今天不應該來此接受耶路撒冷文學獎。有些人甚至警告我,如果我敢來,他們就會杯葛我的作品。

會這樣的原因,當然是因為加薩走廊正發生的這場激烈的戰鬥。根據聯合國的調查,在被封鎖的加薩城中超過一千人喪生,許多人是手無寸鐵的平民,包括了兒童和老人。

在收到獲獎通知之後,我自問:在此時前往以色列接受這文學獎是否是一個正確的行為。這會不會讓人以為我支持衝突中的某一方,或者認為我支持一個選擇發動壓倒性武力的國家政策。當然,我不希望讓人有這樣的印象。我不贊同任何戰爭,我也不支持任何國家。同樣的,我也不希望看到自己的書被杯葛。

最後,在經過審慎的考量之後,我終於決定來此。其中一個原因是因為有太多人反對我前來參與了。或許,我就像許多其他的小說家一樣,天生有著反骨。如果人們告訴我,特別是警告我:「千萬別去那邊,」「千萬別這麼做,」我通常會想要「去那邊」和「這麼做」。你可以說這就是我身為小說家的天性。小說家是種很特別的人。他們一定要親眼所見、親手所觸才願意相信。

所以我來到此地。我選擇親身參與,而不是退縮逃避。我選擇親眼目睹,而不是蒙蔽雙眼。我選擇開口說話,而不是沈默不語。

這並不代表我要發表任何政治信息。判斷對錯當然是小說家最重要的責任。

不過,要如何將這樣的判斷傳遞給他人,則是每個作家的選擇。我自己喜歡利用故事,傾向超現實的故事。因此,我今日才不會在各位面前發表任何直接的政治訊息。

不過,請各位容許我發表一個非常個人的訊息。這是我在撰寫小說時總是牢記在心的。我從來沒有真的將其形諸於文字或是貼在牆上。我將它雋刻在我內心的牆上,這句話是這樣說的:




「若要在高聳的堅牆與以卵擊石的雞蛋之間作選擇,我永遠會選擇站在雞蛋那一邊。」

是的。不管那高牆多麼的正當,那雞蛋多麼的咎由自取,我總是會站在雞蛋那一邊。就讓其他人來決定是非,或許時間或是歷史會下判斷。但若一個小說家選擇寫出站在高牆那一方的作品,不論他有任何理由,這作品的價值何在?


這代表什麼?在大多數的狀況下,這是很顯而易見的。轟炸機、戰車、火箭與白磷彈是那堵高牆。被壓碎、燒焦、射殺的手無寸鐵的平民則是雞蛋。這是這比喻的一個角度。

不過,並不是只有一個角度,還有更深的思考。這樣想吧。我們每個人或多或少都是一顆雞蛋。我們都是獨一無二,裝在脆弱容器理的靈魂。對我來說是如此,對諸位來說也是一樣。我們每個人也或多或少,必須面對一堵高牆。這高牆的名字叫做體制。體制本該保護我們,但有時它卻自作主張,開始殘殺我們,甚至讓我們冷血、有效,系統化的殘殺別人。

我寫小說只有一個理由。那就是將個體的靈魂尊嚴暴露在光明之下。故事的目的是在警醒世人,將一道光束照在體系上,避免它將我們的靈魂吞沒,剝奪靈魂的意義。我深信小說家就該揭露每個靈魂的獨特性,藉由故事來釐清它。用生與死的故事,愛的故事,讓人們落淚的故事,讓人們因恐懼而顫抖的故事,讓人們歡笑顫動的故事。這才是我們日復一日嚴肅編織小說的原因。

先父在九十歲時過世。他是個退休的教師,兼職的佛教法師。當他在研究所就讀時,他被強制徵召去中國參戰。身為一個戰後出身的小孩,我曾經看著他每天晨起在餐前,於我們家的佛壇前深深的向佛祖祈禱。有次我問他為什麼要這樣做,他告訴我他在替那些死於戰爭中的人們祈禱。

他說,他在替所有犧牲的人們祈禱,包括戰友,包括敵人。看著他跪在佛壇前的背影,我似乎可以看見死亡的陰影包圍著他。

我的父親過世時帶走了他的記憶,我永遠沒機會知道一切。但那被死亡包圍的背影留在我的記憶中。這是我從他身上繼承的少數幾件事物,也是最重要的事物。

我今日只想對你傳達一件事。我們都是人類,超越國籍、種族和宗教,都只是一個面對名為體制的堅實高牆的一枚脆弱雞蛋。不論從任何角度來看,我們都毫無勝機。高牆太高、太堅硬,太冰冷。唯一勝過它的可能性只有來自我們將靈魂結為一體,全心相信每個人的獨特和不可取代性所產生的溫暖。

請各位停下來想一想。我們每個人都擁有一個獨特的,活生生的靈魂。體制卻沒有。我們不能容許體制踐踏我們。我們不能容許體制自行其是。體制並沒有創造我們:是我們創造了體制。

這就是我要對各位說的。

我很感謝能夠獲得耶路撒冷文學獎。我很感謝世界各地有那麼多的讀者。我很高興有機會向各位發表演說。

原文在底下(如果有人可以找到這場演講的影片,我會很感謝)

Lucifer

Always on the side of the egg
By Haruki Murakami
Tags: Israel News, Haruki Murakami

I have come to Jerusalem today as a novelist, which is to say as a professional spinner of lies.

Of course, novelists are not the only ones who tell lies. Politicians do it, too, as we all know. Diplomats and military men tell their own kinds of lies on occasion, as do used car salesmen, butchers and builders. The lies of novelists differ from others, however, in that no one criticizes the novelist as immoral for telling them. Indeed, the bigger and better his lies and the more ingeniously he creates them, the more he is likely to be praised by the public and the critics. Why should that be?

My answer would be this: Namely, that by telling skillful lies - which is to say, by making up fictions that appear to be true - the novelist can bring a truth out to a new location and shine a new light on it. In most cases, it is virtually impossible to grasp a truth in its original form and depict it accurately. This is why we try to grab its tail by luring the truth from its hiding place, transferring it to a fictional location, and replacing it with a fictional form. In order to accomplish this, however, we first have to clarify where the truth lies within us. This is an important qualification for making up good lies.

Today, however, I have no intention of lying. I will try to be as honest as I can. There are a few days in the year when I do not engage in telling lies, and today happens to be one of them.

So let me tell you the truth. A fair number of people advised me not to come here to accept the Jerusalem Prize. Some even warned me they would instigate a boycott of my books if I came.

The reason for this, of course, was the fierce battle that was raging in Gaza. The UN reported that more than a thousand people had lost their lives in the blockaded Gaza City, many of them unarmed citizens - children and old people.

Any number of times after receiving notice of the award, I asked myself whether traveling to Israel at a time like this and accepting a literary prize was the proper thing to do, whether this would create the impression that I supported one side in the conflict, that I endorsed the policies of a nation that chose to unleash its overwhelming military power. This is an impression, of course, that I would not wish to give. I do not approve of any war, and I do not support any nation. Neither, of course, do I wish to see my books subjected to a boycott.

Finally, however, after careful consideration, I made up my mind to come here. One reason for my decision was that all too many people advised me not to do it. Perhaps, like many other novelists, I tend to do the exact opposite of what I am told. If people are telling me - and especially if they are warning me - "don't go there," "don't do that," I tend to want to "go there" and "do that." It's in my nature, you might say, as a novelist. Novelists are a special breed. They cannot genuinely trust anything they have not seen with their own eyes or touched with their own hands.

And that is why I am here. I chose to come here rather than stay away. I chose to see for myself rather than not to see. I chose to speak to you rather than to say nothing.

This is not to say that I am here to deliver a political message. To make judgments about right and wrong is one of the novelist's most important duties, of course.

It is left to each writer, however, to decide upon the form in which he or she will convey those judgments to others. I myself prefer to transform them into stories - stories that tend toward the surreal. Which is why I do not intend to stand before you today delivering a direct political message.

Please do, however, allow me to deliver one very personal message. It is something that I always keep in mind while I am writing fiction. I have never gone so far as to write it on a piece of paper and paste it to the wall: Rather, it is carved into the wall of my mind, and it goes something like this:

"Between a high, solid wall and an egg that breaks against it, I will always stand on the side of the egg."

Yes, no matter how right the wall may be and how wrong the egg, I will stand with the egg. Someone else will have to decide what is right and what is wrong; perhaps time or history will decide. If there were a novelist who, for whatever reason, wrote works standing with the wall, of what value would such works be?

What is the meaning of this metaphor? In some cases, it is all too simple and clear. Bombers and tanks and rockets and white phosphorus shells are that high, solid wall. The eggs are the unarmed civilians who are crushed and burned and shot by them. This is one meaning of the metaphor.

This is not all, though. It carries a deeper meaning. Think of it this way. Each of us is, more or less, an egg. Each of us is a unique, irreplaceable soul enclosed in a fragile shell. This is true of me, and it is true of each of you. And each of us, to a greater or lesser degree, is confronting a high, solid wall. The wall has a name: It is The System. The System is supposed to protect us, but sometimes it takes on a life of its own, and then it begins to kill us and cause us to kill others - coldly, efficiently, systematically.

I have only one reason to write novels, and that is to bring the dignity of the individual soul to the surface and shine a light upon it. The purpose of a story is to sound an alarm, to keep a light trained on The System in order to prevent it from tangling our souls in its web and demeaning them. I fully believe it is the novelist's job to keep trying to clarify the uniqueness of each individual soul by writing stories - stories of life and death, stories of love, stories that make people cry and quake with fear and shake with laughter. This is why we go on, day after day, concocting fictions with utter seriousness.

My father died last year at the age of 90. He was a retired teacher and a part-time Buddhist priest. When he was in graduate school, he was drafted into the army and sent to fight in China. As a child born after the war, I used to see him every morning before breakfast offering up long, deeply-felt prayers at the Buddhist altar in our house. One time I asked him why he did this, and he told me he was praying for the people who had died in the war.

He was praying for all the people who died, he said, both ally and enemy alike. Staring at his back as he knelt at the altar, I seemed to feel the shadow of death hovering around him.

My father died, and with him he took his memories, memories that I can never know. But the presence of death that lurked about him remains in my own memory. It is one of the few things I carry on from him, and one of the most important.

I have only one thing I hope to convey to you today. We are all human beings, individuals transcending nationality and race and religion, fragile eggs faced with a solid wall called The System. To all appearances, we have no hope of winning. The wall is too high, too strong - and too cold. If we have any hope of victory at all, it will have to come from our believing in the utter uniqueness and irreplaceability of our own and others' souls and from the warmth we gain by joining souls together.

Take a moment to think about this. Each of us possesses a tangible, living soul. The System has no such thing. We must not allow The System to exploit us. We must not allow The System to take on a life of its own. The System did not make us: We made The System.

That is all I have to say to you.

I am grateful to have been awarded the Jerusalem Prize. I am grateful that my books are being read by people in many parts of the world. And I am glad to have had the opportunity to speak to you here today.

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迴響(1693)

迴響 from: 小觀眾 [訪問者] Email

pray for peace

2009-02-25 @ 21:05
迴響 from: 宅大叔 [訪問者] Email · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/bearcr
永遠站在雞蛋的這一邊嗎?
很值得好好思考的一番話!
2009-02-25 @ 21:13
迴響 from: 路過的 [訪問者]
保持乾淨獨立的靈魂, 不是件容易的事
2009-02-25 @ 21:16
迴響 from: Marco.co [訪問者]
***--
感謝朱大 因為站在巨人的肩上

我們看的更遠

謝謝
2009-02-25 @ 21:18
迴響 from: jason [訪問者]
很棒的一篇演說 發人深省
2009-02-25 @ 21:18
迴響 from: davidtso [訪問者]
推!!
2009-02-25 @ 21:18
迴響 from: Spiky [訪問者]
「若要在高聳的堅牆與以卵擊石的雞蛋之間作選擇,我永遠會選擇站在雞蛋那一邊。」

面對這個句子,我完全無法言語。有點孟子雖千萬人吾往矣的味道,但又不完全一樣。

村上有著這種宗教家的情懷,真是讓人敬佩的無以復加...
2009-02-25 @ 21:19
迴響 from: untaipei [訪問者]
真是引人深思的話啊...

果然從噗浪來比較快
有前十吧...
2009-02-25 @ 21:19
迴響 from: ckkc [訪問者]
哇嗚~是村上大叔
這則新聞在PTT村上版有看到
感動
他是我最欣賞的小說家之一
2009-02-25 @ 21:21
迴響 from: nash [訪問者] · http://sasoft2277.blogspot.com/
*----
阿宅就跟雞蛋一樣脆弱啊~~
2009-02-25 @ 21:22
迴響 from: seekgoal [訪問者]
Always on the side of the egg

那精神值得我們效法
2009-02-25 @ 21:23
迴響 from: 秋名山之恥 [訪問者]
*****
了不起的知識份子亦如是...

沉思中...
2009-02-25 @ 21:29
迴響 from: ckkc [訪問者]
第一句村上春樹的名字打錯了。


Lucifer:可見我不是他的支持者~~
2009-02-25 @ 21:31
迴響 from: 狐狸小賴 [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/sfoxlai
*****
高牆太高、太堅硬,太冰冷...
歐吉桑加油~
謝謝朱小妹~
2009-02-25 @ 21:31
迴響 from: 銘傳大學學生 [訪問者]
我的價值觀原本很狹隘,
甚至不知道該怎麼開拓自己乏味的生活。

但是聽了你的演講後,
我好像有那麼一點點懂了。

現在我只是在想,
我該怎麼把事情做好正如你總是會提前準備你能掌控的事。

看了這篇文章, 我內心就很沉重很嚴肅,
我以前也常看到類似的報導。
但總是會逃避它, 因為我不知道自己能做什麼,戰爭似乎離我很遙遠。

但現在我會思索。「我自己到底能做些什麼?」
2009-02-25 @ 21:35
迴響 from: 麗姬媽 [訪問者]
謝謝你精彩的翻譯,讓我能看到這篇震撼人的演講。
2009-02-25 @ 21:49
迴響 from: Britishsun [訪問者]
****-
當年在看村上的時候 其實我還真的是看不太出來人文的關懷在哪裡
只是被那樣的場景 那樣的故事 那樣的白描法 給深深吸引了

很久沒看村上的書了 或許是該重新翻開來看看的時候了
2009-02-25 @ 21:56
迴響 from: 小安 [訪問者]
***--
村上如果要站在雞蛋的一邊
那似乎應該拒絕這個獎
表達對近來以色列以強大的武力
屠殺巴勒斯坦人
拒絕這個獎的新聞性更大
更容易引起人們對加薩走廊的關心

或者
他是站在雞蛋的一邊沒錯
但是
是站在雞蛋的上面




(Lucifer:他拒絕這個獎你看的到這段演講嗎?
2009-02-25 @ 22:06
迴響 from: 大豬豬 [訪問者]
總是和雞蛋站在同一邊…

看到這裡,又燃起了心中的一些熱情

感謝朱大的翻譯
2009-02-25 @ 22:10
迴響 from: martian [訪問者]
*****
原來他長這樣...呀!

以前打工賣書ㄉ時候,他ㄉ書就是暢銷書了,但是,那時候ㄉ我還不懂他ㄉ書...
經過一段時間
(路人:是很多年後吧!)
我開始看ㄉ懂他ㄉ書了...這就是 成熟了的意思嗎?
2009-02-25 @ 22:11
迴響 from: IEFIVE [訪問者]
朱大可借用您的翻譯以及該演講文嗎?

感激!

Lucifer:註明出處即可
2009-02-25 @ 22:14
迴響 from: 唉唷 [訪問者] Email
自己看完原文更有感覺...
2009-02-25 @ 22:21
迴響 from: pita [訪問者] · http://pitapocket66.pixnet.net/blog/
我很好奇,村上春樹先生
您總是和雞蛋站在同一邊的說法
在日本軍閥侵華、九一八、一二八、南京大屠殺..等等事件中

您仍是和雞蛋站在同一邊嗎?

Lucifer:帥喔,他應該要做時光機回去選邊站喔~~~
2009-02-25 @ 22:25
迴響 from: 墨丰 [訪問者]
是那個沒事就要做愛的村上大叔耶!!
雖然他的書我沒有全部看過

不過他是我少數會對其抱持最高敬意的作家

我很喜歡他在這演講中所說的

"我們都是獨一無二,裝在脆弱容器理的靈魂。"
這句話對我而言,意思是,
當面對群體化的體制工具時,我相信自己的靈魂自覺。
2009-02-25 @ 22:32
迴響 from: 群英唐 [訪問者]
雖然沒看過村上的書 不過應該都很值得看吧
2009-02-25 @ 22:36
迴響 from: whpai [訪問者]
****-
接受這獎而又發表這樣的演說,是不入地獄誰入地獄典型嗎?
2009-02-25 @ 22:40
迴響 from: predator [訪問者] Email
以色列和巴勒斯坦的紛爭要解決
我看這比叫阿宅變型男還要不可能
最近朱大的文章都頗嚴肅
看完心情有點沉重阿
2009-02-25 @ 22:50
迴響 from: 芝萁 [訪問者]
朱大,想跟您借用這篇文和翻譯唷,我會註明出處的,感謝。


(Lucifer:就註明出處和翻譯者就好啦,後面都不必問~~~最多加個連結回來即可~~
2009-02-25 @ 22:55
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
*****
***
閱畢~~~

====
感謝朱大 因為站在胖子的堅挺肩膀上

我...我...我們可以...
可...可以...
(靠盃,這個胖子好油,腳滑採不住!)
看!的!更!~~~~~~~~遠(小聲...)~~~~~
(失足...)

====
為什麼侵華、九一八、一二八、南京大屠殺..等等事件,
村上春樹不能站在雞蛋那一邊?
2009-02-25 @ 23:06
迴響 from: ooxx [訪問者]
to pita:
村上本來就是反戰派的,
他的作品就是那樣.
所以不需要問他要站哪邊吧!
2009-02-25 @ 23:11
迴響 from: 大話夢想家 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/JShan
就算雞蛋是不對的也要站在他那邊嗎?

這個只限於身為小說家的立場而已吧~

就現實的情況來說...
被打的男人和打人後卻哭的西哩嘩啦的女人,
無論女生再怎麼柔弱還是要站在對的那裡吧!

(如果那個女生很正的話就另當別論...)
2009-02-25 @ 23:20
迴響 from: Alfie [訪問者] · http://alfie1980.blogspot.com/
村上春樹是我最愛的小說家之一。
他的作品我幾乎全部都有。

他的小說主角,常常是十分微小,但是又非常的堅強。不向現實屈服,盡力的活下去。

至於沒事就要作愛... 是從那兒看來的?
不過村上春樹倒是把作愛當作跟喝水一樣平常是真的。(不過描寫作愛場面並不華麗,算是非常乖乖牌的寫法。)

村上春樹的作品很廣。
從愛情小說到遊記到科幻小說到童話到隨筆散文到廣告文案到音樂評論到採訪記事。

簡單的入門作品:

跟我一樣喜歡浪漫的,可以從「挪威的森林、國境之南.太陽之西」這二本愛情小說開始

喜歡自由旅行的:「邊境.近境、遠方的鼓聲」

喜歡小品的:「村上收音機」(他寫給anan雜誌給二十歲左右的正妹看的。)

祝大家悅讀愉快~
還有,別忘記向前進的勇氣。 ;)

2009-02-25 @ 23:37
迴響 from: 半路 [訪問者] · http://blog.monkeypotion.net/
如果只是做為一位暢銷書作者或者是受歡迎的長篇小說家,村上春樹理所當然可以選擇不去領這個獎。畢竟他的職業是作家,何必冒著職業風險甚至是生命危險去得罪任何一個相關的派系陣營,甚至是一整個國家呢?

但是他沒有選擇這樣做。

他選擇了面對而非逃避。我想,他深刻地瞭解與其躲避這堵高牆的挑戰,不如在這個能見度極高的頒獎場合裡,挺身而出告訴人們一些微弱隱誨但深藏於每個人靈魂深處的想法。哪怕真正聽進去的人只有一點點,也足夠了。

至少我是這麼認為的。

非常感謝您的中文翻譯與原文分享。 :)
2009-02-25 @ 23:42
迴響 from: 尼扣 [訪問者] · http://ninikokola.blogspot.com/
*****
感謝你的翻譯
讓我深受感動
轉貼至個人網誌裡
有註明出處與連結
訂閱你的部落格真的是太幸福了!!
2009-02-25 @ 23:43
迴響 from: Asoka [訪問者]
政權=人民=雞蛋

治權=體制=高牆

戰爭=壞掉的體制

和平=潤白的人本
2009-02-25 @ 23:44
迴響 from: 腥媽May [訪問者]
非常感動
這段演講內容就像幫我對村上的所有作品做出了一個總結
有一種【啊!原來村上對自己的寫作的定位與信念是如此】
而回想起來也的確是

謝謝朱大的分享:)
2009-02-25 @ 23:47
迴響 from: 貴妃 [訪問者]
*****
好文......我可以只打'推'嗎
2009-02-25 @ 23:54
迴響 from: UZ [訪問者]
我也是村上的忠實讀者之一.
每次看他的書又開始想起淡淡的過去時光.

謝謝朱大的翻譯.
讓我看到一個新的視野.
2009-02-25 @ 23:55
迴響 from: gp99000 [訪問者]
to baabuu

為什麼侵華、九一八、一二八、南京大屠殺..等等事件,
村上春樹不能站在雞蛋那一邊?
====
有人認為立場一致就是要通通站出來表態,每天弄個新聞的意思(攤手)

甚至他不用領這個獎阿,他還是可以站在肥皂箱上就演講阿~

--這說法跟找碴有啥兩樣= =

2009-02-26 @ 00:04
迴響 from: DFY [訪問者]
不管選擇是「什麼」,「態度」很重要,而我們現在的行為處事都失去了自身應有的態度,只有依附體制與社會價值觀。
2009-02-26 @ 00:09
迴響 from: 過來人 [訪問者]
我喜歡他的書

這篇演講有當頭棒喝的感覺

在台灣

體制限定了人民

但,人民創造了體制

說起來很諷刺

問題是現在人民打算怎麼做?

是讓某些雞蛋持續被砸爛

還是聯合所有的雞蛋堆起來跨過這到高牆?
2009-02-26 @ 00:21
迴響 from: 班恩 [訪問者]
*****
不思善、不思惡,何是本來面目?村上此舉鏗鏘有力,朱大此舉隨喜功德無量。
2009-02-26 @ 00:22
迴響 from: 發條鳥 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/ivansuperman
對於日本侵華跟戰爭以及屠殺這些事情

還有想知道村上身為一個日本人對於這些事情的看法

然後不清楚 但是被體制底下的新聞拉著鼻子走的人

我很建議你可以看一下邊境近境門諾罕哪篇

還有地下鐵事件整本

你會發現在體制下的發言的你

被這體制所深深的影響竟然是如此深

深到你自己其實知道卻心甘情願的被拉著走

回著跟體制沒有什麼兩樣的文字

2009-02-26 @ 00:23
迴響 from: ccc [訪問者]
賓拉登大叔算是雞蛋還是高牆呢?
2009-02-26 @ 00:24
迴響 from: clio823 [訪問者]
***--
感謝朱大分享哩
2009-02-26 @ 00:26
迴響 from: 春上村樹 [訪問者]
由雞蛋組成的高牆
要算是牆還是蛋?
2009-02-26 @ 00:42
迴響 from: 豬豬人 [訪問者]
賓大叔算是雞蛋築起來的高牆?
2009-02-26 @ 00:44
迴響 from: 豬豬人 [訪問者]
當兵的時候,靠的是
挪威森林跟 世界末日與冷酷意境
撐過去的

上了年紀就特別喜歡看國境之南

舞‧舞‧舞 也是很讚的!!!

2009-02-26 @ 00:48
迴響 from: ckkc [訪問者]
沒想到這裡也有很多人看村上大叔的書欸
我最喜歡海邊的卡夫卡
遊記則是最愛遠方的鼓聲

那個前面不知道誰說
沒事就要做愛的....哈的確是蠻常提到的
不過我覺得現代社會裡,刻意把性從小說中拿掉反而會變得扭曲而顯得不自然不是嗎?

南京大屠殺發生時村上還沒出生喔。
大叔今年才60歲
況且要選邊站的話,這篇演說不就表態的很清楚了嗎?


(靠夭我明天還要上班,睡了)
2009-02-26 @ 00:48
迴響 from: 豬豬人 [訪問者]
那小聲的問:陳阿扁算是一顆臭蛋嗎?
村上的這句話,竟然讓我開始思考阿扁的支持者,好像有那麼一點可取之處??!!

真是奇妙阿~
2009-02-26 @ 00:52
迴響 from: 黑兄 [訪問者] · http://zvx911.blogspot.com/
*****
朱大挖到了喔!

影片在此:

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v17573196BNj4BS8g


Lucifer:這才兩分鐘耶,不是完整的說,而且旁邊那麼多.....讓我更進一步研究的影片是怎樣~~~
2009-02-26 @ 01:13
迴響 from: GCVincent [訪問者]
>在台灣

>體制限定了人民

>但,人民創造了體制

煩請有參加過創造體制的台灣人民舉手!


(Lucifer:報告,我好像有投過票耶。
2009-02-26 @ 01:13
迴響 from: A fan of Murakami San [訪問者]
*****
相對於體制,每個人都是獨一無二、彌足珍貴的靈魂。如果站在高牆體制那邊,無論當下立論多麼正確,都是對於居於落勢一方「順我者生、逆我者亡」的聲張。更不用說,「正確」與否隨著時代變遷總是沒有定論。

村上老頭在乎的是靈魂的獨特性不能被體制埋沒或犧牲,所以期望藉由小說將每個隱藏在角落、看似不起眼的靈魂呈現出來,讓那些活在體制下覺得一切理所當然的讀者,能夠從閱讀小說的過程中聆聽到這些獨特靈魂的心聲,而如果能夠進一步激起一些讀者的同理心,開始對於平常不在意的靈魂有些許同情或瞭解,這樣不同靈魂間的互動聯繫,就能產生體制下無法賦予的溫暖,同時也些微地軟化了體制存在所必然附帶的剛強跋扈。

怎麼看,村上老頭也是屬於不見容於當今體制的少數靈魂,自然他有義務、也有需求,必須站在反抗體制的一方,否則他亦將被抹滅或犧牲。

阿宅相對於體制亦是如此。

Note: 村上老頭的老爸「去年」與世長辭,朱大翻譯漏了。
2009-02-26 @ 01:18
迴響 from: Emil [訪問者]
我第一次看到春上的書是我國中時,在皇冠上的麵包店再襲擊,之後便追著他一些時期的書來看,從尋羊三部曲到發條鳥年代紀,又看了「世界末日與冷酷異境」(這本我超愛,僅次於尋羊三部曲),就這樣,春上那什麼都不確定、什麼都可以放棄的主角,陪我度過了什麼都不確定、什麼都可以放棄的高中、大學時代。

他有他獨特的想法、獨特的文字用法,所以我看他的文章。

祝福他,更為他的這段話喝采,也為朱大這充滿誠意的翻譯獻上我的敬意。
2009-02-26 @ 01:19
迴響 from: 朱厚宅 [訪問者]
*****
每個男人下面都有個蛋........
2009-02-26 @ 01:31
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
*****
這篇文章讓我想到朱大日前的另一篇文章:

如果人生之中不停退讓,有一天我們會忘記當初想成為什麼樣的人


朱大最近發文都很沉重?
2009-02-26 @ 01:57
迴響 from: 路人 [訪問者]
A fan of Murakami San寫的很好!
另外有人可以對"體制"做解釋嗎?因為我的中文程度跟樓上許多人一樣爛...



Lucifer:你所堅持的國家民族就是體制呀~~~
2009-02-26 @ 02:08
迴響 from: 墨丰 [訪問者]
回稟Alfie
我所說的"沒事就來做愛"指的是村上大叔的描述方法~~~
誠如您所說的,他寫做愛和寫吃飯喝水沒甚麼兩樣,
但我可不認為這個叫做乖乖牌的寫法,
因為我認為在這個地方反而特別顯現了村上大叔的風格,
反應了人在現代社會的蒼白,機械化,但又想保留住某些珍貴東西的感覺。

我第一次接觸他的書是在國中到高中的這段期間,第一本看的是"聽風的歌"再來才是挪威的森林
有很多書中的內容,我當時不懂,現在也未必瞭解,但總是在不同的時空裡,觸動到心中的某些人事物。
2009-02-26 @ 02:46
*****
啊啊借連一下~感謝翻譯...
http://www.ptt.cc/bbs/mknoheya/index.html
2009-02-26 @ 02:48
迴響 from: 我是大班 [訪問者]
這篇看的好痛苦阿
自從有了小孩之後...
每每看到小孩受傷的畫面...
就感到心如刀割....
2009-02-26 @ 02:50
迴響 from: 小眼睛先生 [訪問者] · http://www.hohsienjui.com
*****
向這個為好演講致敬的方式聊表敬意
2009-02-26 @ 03:01
迴響 from: 肥宅 [訪問者]
幾千年來,人們處在這會吃人的社會裏,有少數的吃人者,還有大多數的被吃者,但這些被吃者也早己習以為常…… 我因為〔遠方的鼓聲〕,開始厭惡村上(作品),卻又因這篇演講辭,開始喜歡村上(人) 作品與作者是兩回事,但一個人人格如何,取決於他對事情的態度上~ 感謝朱大熱情提供翻譯文章
2009-02-26 @ 05:27
迴響 from: hiso [訪問者] · http://www.iamhiso.com
****-
是和雞蛋(弱者)站在同一邊,
不是和笨蛋,壞蛋,混蛋站在同一邊.

支持反戰...... peace
2009-02-26 @ 05:43
迴響 from: Willy [訪問者] · http://willyfeng.blogspot.com
****-
是可以選擇站在雞蛋這邊
但如果到處都是雞蛋
你要站在那顆雞蛋那邊?
2009-02-26 @ 06:20
迴響 from: 恨 [訪問者]
年輕時總覺得「永遠站在弱者那一邊」

現在覺的
「不要製造弱者」

而和平...
我相信是看誰手上握的棒子比較粗而已

以卵擊石的雞蛋或是高牆

就好像搶灘的士兵和機槍塔的士兵

只是各自維護自已的信念而已

以卵擊石的雞蛋或是高牆們有想過

那可能成為小雞的蛋黃?

我們也許可以飛過那個高牆?

戰爭有犧牲者 殉道也有犧牲者

反戰...是叫我們停止丟雞蛋嗎 還是?

2009-02-26 @ 06:32
迴響 from: 恨 [訪問者]
那些人們受的傷
是向高牆丟去 還是被雞蛋丟來呢

oh no 他們是蛋黃

蛋殼可以選擇向高牆飛去

可是蛋黃沒有選擇

人民沒有選擇
2009-02-26 @ 06:43
迴響 from: 果國 [訪問者] · http://blog.yam.com/minisheng_yblog
朱大你好
想把這一篇貼在我的網誌上
我會注名出處的
感謝分享
謝謝
2009-02-26 @ 07:15
迴響 from: housebird321 [訪問者]
無言的推,出處和連結借用了
2009-02-26 @ 08:17
迴響 from: 歐伊係 [訪問者]
老闆,來份番茄牛肉蛋炒飯,恩,好吃喔~

2009-02-26 @ 08:26
迴響 from: gcku572 [訪問者]
~請各位停下來想一想,我們每個人都擁有一個獨特的,活生生的靈魂。體制卻沒有。我們不能容許體制踐踏我們。我們不能容許體制自行其事。體制並沒有創造我們:是我們創造了體制。~

正妹之神,原諒我又重複了一次內容。
我的這個在小說中不知道上了多少正妹的王八蛋偶像實在說的太棒了。
2009-02-26 @ 08:56
迴響 from: gcku572 [訪問者]
~請各位停下來想一想,我們每個人都擁有一個獨特的,活生生的靈魂。體制卻沒有。我們不能容許體制踐踏我們。我們不能容許體制自行其事。體制並沒有創造我們:是我們創造了體制。~

正妹之神,原諒我又重複了一次內容。多佔用那一點點稀微的資源來致敬。這個在小說中不知道上了多少正妹的我的王八蛋偶像這次實在說的太棒了。

(Lucifer:你推了兩次耶。
2009-02-26 @ 09:04
迴響 from: ruaypalm [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/ruaypalm
>>迴響 from: ccc [訪問者]
>>賓拉登大叔算是雞蛋還是高牆呢?
======================================

政客是拿雞蛋丟高牆的人


不過......

雞蛋破掉很臭地
牆沒洗會更臭

丟雞蛋的人還在一旁
好整以暇的捏著鼻子說
『這道牆臭死了……』
『是這些雞蛋自己飛過去的………』

愚蠢的雞蛋啊!!!!!!!


2009-02-26 @ 09:15
迴響 from: ruaypalm [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/ruaypalm

上文朱大已有翻譯
======================================
>>先父在九十歲時過世。他是個退休的教師,兼職的佛教法師。當他在研究所就讀時,他被強制徵召去中國參戰。身為一個戰後出身的小孩,我曾經看著他每天晨起在餐前,於我們家的佛壇前深深的向佛祖祈禱。有次我問他為什麼要這樣做,他告訴我他在替那些死於戰爭中的人們祈禱。
======================================
你說他會是贊成侵華、九一八、一二八、南京大屠殺..等等的嗎???

如果他父親是要到戰區去姦淫擄掠
會說是光榮入伍
而不是強制徵召

沒有雞蛋會喜歡被拿去亂丟的
只是它沒有選擇權

2009-02-26 @ 09:31
迴響 from: Carl [訪問者]
戰爭永遠無可避免,縱然有那麼多感人肺腑的文章訴求和平,我們還是無法阻止政客引發戰爭,因為有歷史可尋。
2009-02-26 @ 09:45
迴響 from: 沾為 [訪問者] · http://psywimac.blogspot.com
****-
銘感五內
無怪他不常說真話
他的真誠太有力量
2009-02-26 @ 09:54
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
請支持華碩電腦(誤)
2009-02-26 @ 10:14
迴響 from: ShinPing [訪問者] · http://simon0412.spaces.live.com/
閱畢!!
此篇文章真是發人生省!!
嗯...看朱大學人生大道理阿!!
2009-02-26 @ 10:56
迴響 from: ladyous [訪問者] Email · http://ladyous.blogspot.com/
*****
love & peace
2009-02-26 @ 11:12
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
喔喔
新的SAFARI開朱大網頁好快唷~~~~

可是我的東西都放在OPERA上....懶的換....囧
2009-02-26 @ 11:27
迴響 from: 米拉羊 [訪問者] · http://chenmiracle.blogspot.com
*****
"全心相信每個人的獨特和不可取代性所產生的溫暖。"

很感動。
2009-02-26 @ 11:27
迴響 from: 如果雞蛋真的很咎由自取不知道自己能否依然站在那一方的Lanman [訪問者]
在大多數的案例中,我們幾乎不可能捕捉真理,並且精準的描繪它。因此,我們才必須要將真理從它的藏匿處誘出,轉化到另一個想像的場景,轉換成另一個想像的形體。不過,為了達成這個目的,我們必須先弄清楚真理到底在自己體內的何處。
---------------------------

我反而是被這段話給感動哈哈
村上抓住某些真哩,然後能編織出貫穿人類的感人作品;做人若能謹守真正屬於自己的端正原則,不管你參與多奇怪的經歷,也依然能展現令人尊重的靈魂。
(好,我的回應偏了!哈~)
2009-02-26 @ 11:29
迴響 from: julianne [訪問者]
很棒的演講
很棒的翻譯
謝謝!!
2009-02-26 @ 12:24
迴響 from: 神拳寺 [訪問者]
*****
李家同:"讓高牆倒下吧!" (誤!!)
2009-02-26 @ 12:33
迴響 from: chiz [訪問者]
跟村上的雞蛋說比起來,
我比較服膺朱大看完長江七號之後的心得發文:
『能夠大聲說話的人,要替不能開口的人仗義執言。 有能力的人,要替沒有能力的人挺身而出。』
個人對於上面的幾句話,深表感佩。
2009-02-26 @ 13:24
迴響 from: s05064 [訪問者]
「若要在高聳的堅牆與以卵擊石的雞蛋之間作選擇,我永遠會選擇站在雞蛋那一邊。」這句的確發人省思!

「如果人生之中不停退讓,有一天我們會忘記當初想成為什麼樣的人」這句是振奮人心啊!
2009-02-26 @ 14:13
迴響 from: Siva [訪問者]
*****
只能說朱大的肩膀好溫暖...
這篇文收下了~感激
2009-02-26 @ 14:26
迴響 from: 我是正妹,我只用"莎啦莎啦"ㄏㄏㄏ [訪問者]
*****
我們都只是雞蛋,卻還喜歡自己幫自己分類,但是打爛的雞蛋,裡面還不是蛋黃加蛋白...第一次留言..爽感中

2009-02-26 @ 14:37
迴響 from: artie [訪問者] · http://blog.xuite.net/artie723/blog2
很棒的演講
雖然我沒看過他的小說
看完朱大的翻譯
倒想看看小說
謝謝!
2009-02-26 @ 14:39
迴響 from: drago [訪問者] · http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/wt_judylee
*****
神性的一篇演講
神性的翻譯者
謝謝你的翻譯 讓我們有機會可以體會這樣的演講內容
"唯一勝過它的可能性只有來自我們將靈魂結唯一體,全心相信每個人的獨特不可取代性所產生的溫暖" -->這句話真的太棒了 我們都是體啊
2009-02-26 @ 15:27
迴響 from: thor [訪問者] · http://blog.bs2.to/tempest
*****
這篇讓我想起上次聽一個記錄片導演的座談會時他說的。他說如果你不知道該如何選擇立場時,那選擇弱勢者的那一邊,比較不會錯。不是說弱勢的人不會錯,而是出錯的機率比較小。而且,就算弱勢的人有錯,多半也是被逼出來的。

如果你寫的東西,你拍的東西。老是在幫強勢、體制內、主流意見講話。而且你覺得自己沒有錯的話,那很顯然就是你的人有錯了。
2009-02-26 @ 15:36
迴響 from: GCVincent [訪問者]
>煩請有參加過創造體制的台灣人民舉手!


>(Lucifer:報告,我好像有投過票耶。)

這是說朱大有當過國代還是立委,並且投票修憲?

還是說總統/市長/鄉鎮市長/里長選舉就算是創造體制

印象中創造體制的人都入土為安很久了,後人只是遵循或者修改...


(Lucifer:挖,創造體制這麼嚴格喔? 那意思是說我沒當過總統都不是創造體制嚕?再扯下去只有上帝要負責了....orz.....
2009-02-26 @ 16:09
迴響 from: GCVincent [訪問者]
> 迴響 from: 朱厚宅 [訪問者]
*****
每個男人下面都有個蛋........

大驚!
男人下面不是都有兩個蛋嗎?
(低頭檢查,蛋蛋兄弟還在~還好!)

男人
蛋蛋
2009-02-26 @ 16:16
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
選舉不算嘛?
現在是已經不能改憲法了嗎?

阿要不然選舉是在選心酸的唷?
促進選舉產業發展的嗎?
(雖然現在大多是人是在選顏色...囧)
2009-02-26 @ 16:19
迴響 from: 挖挖哇 [訪問者]
****-
永遠要站在弱者的一方,這句話我很早就在這裡說過,但是朱大視若無物,永遠沒有絕對的公平公正,但是我們要不停的追求公平公正,這也許是身為人的終極目標,就像民主就像太極,只有兩方輪替和諧才有美好的未來,台灣的問題就是太多人放任各領域霸道的一方,任意侵犯弱勢一方的利益與意見,但是台灣的知識分子,也許真的沒幾個所謂知識分子「在乎」,所有的不公不義,源頭都在政治~


(Lucifer:搞不好不是你很早以前在這裡說過,可能你一出生就說過但我不知道而已....囧。
2009-02-26 @ 16:31
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
想改為用土磚對雞蛋
也就是只區分強弱。

磚不一定會成為成就高牆的一部份
體制其實也沒有完全抹殺個體的獨特性

體制沒有人因不會半夜跑出去殺人= =

畢竟體制是死的。

身為強者,不一定要踐踏弱者
或者說,身為強者;更應該關懷弱勢。

磚之所以為磚,多虧雞蛋奉獻蛋白(土磚為蛋白、米糠+土
高牆得以成就;一樣需要來自雞蛋的力量。

某些磚的想法是能踩就踩,那高牆注定失落的比其它地方更快。

也注定高牆的命運
是殘桓斷壁,而非城邦堡壘。
2009-02-26 @ 16:35
迴響 from: 科科科 愛你不成殺死你 [訪問者]
*****
喔喔喔喔喔喔~~~~~~~~~~~~

阿同伯又有新花招了 http://www.cw.com.tw/article/index.jsp?page=2&id=36919

----> 李家捅:不能再陷入「高科技」的迷思 科科科

.笑
2009-02-26 @ 16:53
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
還有一種人,叫石磚。

這種人多數選擇成為雞蛋的天敵。

因為它們大部分感受不到自己有受惠於雞蛋
而自己在城牆上的地位也是理所當然。

打從出生,我就比人家硬
所以其它人就是犯賤。

----

古時的土磚好像成分也很多樣
據說也有稻草、糯米、黑糖、黏土窯燒等製成方式?

(不過這不是重點=.=
2009-02-26 @ 17:11
迴響 from: 名偵探科科 [訪問者]
*****
有人認為村上如果站在雞蛋這邊, 就不該領這個獎, 但是私以為, 領了這個獎, 再以這篇演講打以色列一巴掌不是更加痛快? 科科...
2009-02-26 @ 17:44
迴響 from: 賈不妙 [訪問者]
*****
真的很棒
我很久沒發文了,
看到忍不住讚一下
2009-02-26 @ 17:59
迴響 from: vanessa chu [訪問者]
原來朱學恆還是浪漫的,並非指你看村上小說那輕飄飄的愛情面,而是看到小說家的理想,有如唐吉訶德一樣。
2009-02-26 @ 18:58
迴響 from: 挖挖哇 [訪問者]
****-
為什麼要站在弱者一方,重視人權,監督「體制」,以下是最好的借鏡,放任「權力橫行」,最後「業力」會迴歸自身~
在德國,起初納粹追殺共產主義者,我沒有說話——因為我不是共產主義者;接著納粹追殺猶太人,我沒有說話——因為我不是猶太人;後來納粹追殺工會成員,我沒有說話——因為我不是工會成員;此後納粹追殺天主教徒,我沒有說話——因為我是新教教徒;最後他們奔我而來,卻再也沒有人為我站出來了。
2009-02-26 @ 21:30
迴響 from: 路望 [訪問者]
*****
朱大:我可以使用您的翻譯製成講義,印給學生嗎?謝謝!


Lucifer:可以呀~~~~有空還可以拍張照給我~~~
2009-02-26 @ 21:57
迴響 from: 路望 [訪問者]
*****
謝謝!
因為您的同意,我已製成講義了!
您說的照片是指學生閱讀講義的樣子?
還是講義編排的樣子?
(我的問題好像有點北七!)

Lucifer:人啦,照人啦~~~
2009-02-26 @ 22:11
迴響 from: 失憶老人 [訪問者]
很多時候,誰是雞蛋、誰是牆,也許不是那麼準確。
但還是以關懷「人」的角度出發,比較不容易做錯。
在父親非本願地參戰後,跨越種族和國界為所有犧牲的人祈禱;那悲憫的背影,一定在村上春樹的心裡留下深刻的震撼…
所以他反戰的信念應該無庸置疑。
唯有經歷過人生、思索過生存意義的人,才能發表這樣深刻感人的演講吧。

推演講,推朱大的翻譯。

2009-02-26 @ 22:26
迴響 from: 丁丁 [訪問者]
老大真的很可愛!
很感謝您喜歡分享的這份心~
讓我們欣賞到許多動人的演講!謝謝!︿︿

反戰書~我推"馮內果"的"第五號屠宰場"~
2009-02-26 @ 22:56
迴響 from: Vergil [訪問者] · http://www.washivaca.blogspot.com
推《讓高牆倒下吧》! XDXD
2009-02-26 @ 22:57
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
是要拍正妹領講義的那一瞬間啦.........囧"
2009-02-26 @ 23:13
迴響 from: 唉唷 [訪問者] Email
真的很巧妙啊...
但你還是有收到就是了XP
2009-02-26 @ 23:13
迴響 from: oldhan [訪問者]
上村樹嚥在口中沒說出的話恐怕是:
沒有恐怖份子,
沒有恐怖主義,
假世界警察去死..
2009-02-26 @ 23:30
迴響 from: 陳露西 [訪問者]
我挺喜歡村上春樹的,佩服他在這個戰火未熄的時刻去以色列領獎,更敬佩他有勇氣在發動戰爭的國家發表這樣的得獎感言。
聯想到前些天討論到醫療方面的道德兩難,是該維護有嚴重先天疾病,明知活著會很苦也讓周遭的人很苦的新生兒的生存權,動手術救他呢?還是該忽略身體不夠健康的人活下來的權益而讓他自然死亡呢?討論到最後,我只是反覆的出現一個念頭,每個例子都該是個案,不該立法做出一個統一執行法則;看到這篇演講的內容,我意識到我抗拒的是什麼了,很多事情,在處理的時候根本不該是用體制去解答,或解決的。
我也喜歡跟雞蛋站在同一邊,這就是為什麼玩遊戲時我總是選混亂善良吧(笑)
順道推薦一下"中東現場"這本書,看完可以對中東稍稍有一點點認識;"我在伊朗長大"是一系列很可愛的漫畫,也很值得看;還有一本伊拉克青年寫的部落格合成的書也不錯,書名我突然忘了,有誰知道可以順便推薦一下嗎:P
2009-02-27 @ 00:08
迴響 from: JJ [訪問者]
正義是不會死的
只是人會長大....
2009-02-27 @ 00:17
迴響 from: arctic [訪問者]
****-
不知道這網頁呈現的是真實,還是芭樂?

http://www.plurk.com/luciferchu

連這篇內容都有上去阿XD
2009-02-27 @ 00:31
迴響 from: james [訪問者]
文字的魔力
一把刀兩面光
厲害!佩服!
2009-02-27 @ 01:20
迴響 from: Michael [訪問者]
228快到了,也期待朱大發揮研究精神,說說這個當年雞蛋撞石牆的殺戮事件。
2009-02-27 @ 01:51
迴響 from: Rex [訪問者]
****-
要站在雞蛋那一邊嗎?

請多用Yahoo!搜尋;少拜點google大神吧!
2009-02-27 @ 02:03
迴響 from: 拉歐 [訪問者]
*****
曾經是村上春樹迷
看完這篇我哭了
感謝朱大
2009-02-27 @ 09:16
迴響 from: MoMo [訪問者]
*****
我也是雞蛋呀!

朱大我昨天有看到你在剪頭髮喔!
2009-02-27 @ 11:16
迴響 from: 賢哥 [訪問者]
我永遠選擇站在鴕鳥蛋那一邊..........(汗)
2009-02-27 @ 11:19
迴響 from: 農友 [訪問者]
有沒有人什麼事都要朱豪宅來研究的八卦?

還是只有朱豪宅才會用Google的八卦?

或者是只有朱豪宅才有能力獨立思考的八卦?

啊是怎樣?

要不要朱豪宅一併研究漳閩大戰時,是那邊是雞蛋?

要不要朱豪宅來研究一下,客家人被閩南人趕到山邊的八卦?
2009-02-27 @ 11:44
迴響 from: elaine [訪問者]
我看過他兩本書,舞舞舞跟什麼羊的(年紀大了,實在...)
我一直體會不到大家說的"那種"意境
只是覺得那隻羊的比喻很莫名,以及不懂為什麼書裡的青春美少女都會想跟主角(他?)上床
之後就沒再接觸過他的書

這次村上大叔的舉動,在我的解讀上,他很清楚自己的話題性
所以冒著被抵制、危險、變成另一個有著死亡背影的餘生...像是一種廣告的姿態去吸引世人聆聽他的想法
或許他講的不夠熱血、不夠直接、沒提到什麼你媽他媽大家的媽之類的語助詞
也許就是大家口中的村上的白描法,沒有裝飾的描述,呈現的就是主題而已

我也不是村上大叔的粉絲,以前不是以後也可能很難會是
但這次會為他拍拍手,體制或雞蛋啊....
2009-02-27 @ 11:56
迴響 from: 常跪國文老師 [訪問者]
如果A殺了B,那雞蛋是誰?
是B嗎?
因為他被另一個人抹去存在。
還是A嗎?
或許B對A做了令A無法活在這世上的事。


體制可以殺死A嗎?體制又有什麼權力抹去他人存在。若可以,那A是雞蛋,B是雞蛋,這兩個雞蛋,該保護的又是誰?

覺得雞蛋很像「正義」,很抽象。
每個人都有一肚子的道理,每個人定義的「雞蛋」也不一樣。

我覺得好難哦。
2009-02-27 @ 12:49
迴響 from: iamnotgm [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/iamnotgm
*****
我對雞蛋與高牆的比喻是這樣理解的
那並不是弱者與強者的分別
而是個人與群體的分別
換句話說樓上不少人其實搞錯重點了
個人的觀點而言

體制是什麼?
樓上某位GV什麼的說
創造體制的人多半都已經入土了
個人認為這樣的定義過於狹義

體制是因為有眾人的支持才存在
反過來說
眾人的支持就是體制的最基本要素
衍伸而言
任何的集體意識團體規範等等
都可以說是體制的一種化身
小至一群小朋友訂出的遊戲規則
學校的校規
大至國家的法律
世界各國訂下的各種條款協議
並不是它存在了就必須遵守
而是我們遵守它它才能存在

為了穩定體制內的眾人
人們會用體制的力量進行約束
而這個約束是善是惡的這種定義問題
是來自真正多數或既得利益的少數
這並不是討論的重點

村上想表達的
我認為是一種個人自身的價值
我們自己的思想理念獨創性
是不應該因為眾人的壓迫而禁聲的
小說家所寫的就是這樣的個人價值
而不是由一個集體的角度
寫他操縱許多個體的故事(那是史學家)
這才是村上說的
永遠站在雞蛋那邊
以雞蛋的角度來寫故事
2009-02-27 @ 12:50
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
應該很多人都覺得自己是雞蛋吧?
然後我開始覺得那些天生就長的兇巴巴的高牆也許挺倒楣的......


誰知道呢.......說不定哪天有哪個愛挑戰朱大的傢伙也會自比作雞蛋XD~
2009-02-27 @ 13:09
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
為什麼傑森演唱會是邀請方大同...而不是我們家杰倫呢........囧"
2009-02-27 @ 13:13
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
我看到了....

我看到左邊有掛PLURK上去.....
2009-02-27 @ 13:16
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
傑森應該要邀請佛來迪才對!!!

還是祂吃膩了?
2009-02-27 @ 13:18
迴響 from: bamboo [訪問者]
*****
看完後有種莫名的感動,真是打到我內心去了
2009-02-27 @ 13:22
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
如果這篇是馬英九的228的公開演說稿
當它被真誠的、慈悲的、勇敢的大聲念出來
對於這起慘案及正遭受噩運的人類
有多麼大的安慰啊!

作家跟文學家的差距是如此清楚
並謝謝朱先生提供了這篇文章!
2009-02-27 @ 14:16
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
又有人要戰228了嗎?
當年這些閩南福佬族沒少殺人咧~

在呆丸,起初冥禁黨抹黑狗民黨員,我沒有說話——因為我不是狗民黨員;
接著冥禁黨批鬥外省人,我沒有說話——因為我不是外省人;
後來冥禁黨鬥爭軍公教成員,我沒有說話——因為我不是軍公教成員;
此後冥禁黨追殺過往同志,我沒有說話——因為我不是冥禁黨過往同志;
最後他們向我奔襲而來,卻再也沒有人為我站出來了。
2009-02-27 @ 14:24
迴響 from: 貝嘉 [訪問者]
朱大~想請問這篇文可以讓我轉貼到我學會的部落格嘛@@?
2009-02-27 @ 14:41
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
給RR
哈哈哈哈~你說的好好笑哦~
2009-02-27 @ 14:44
迴響 from: 陳健拉 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/wos5468
****-
講到族群跟省籍大家就開始敏感了
大家多包容啦
2009-02-27 @ 15:40
迴響 from: ruaypalm [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/ruaypalm
>>經濟蕭條大家倒大楣請小心系列之邪教、直銷與心靈成長課程專題收集資料中,請各位阿宅們踴躍提供資料謝謝~~~
========================================


這個算不算
http://www.wretch.cc/blog/ruaypalm/12541884

2009-02-27 @ 16:36
迴響 from: Yeager [訪問者] · http://forum.gamer.com.tw
所謂的正義感特別強的人,
通常都是喜歡作夢的說謊者--夢想雖美但不真實;而且不幸的是,
這個現實世界往往需要的不是夢想,
而是現實--死
對於村上先生的看法
他的這份執著
個人還是絕對認同的--
這廿十年的經濟發展
已磨蝕多少熱血青年的一生呢?
2009-02-27 @ 18:05
迴響 from: iris [訪問者]
*****
站在雞蛋的那一邊,令人印象深刻!
記得在某本書裡看到這樣的一段話:「暴力永遠是情無可原的。恨永遠是情無可原的。謀殺永遠是情無可原的。那些不論為何緣故耽溺於暴力的人們,他們自己已變了,而他們的純潔目的已被沾污。」
暴力,永遠只會帶來更多的暴力。
選擇愛與和平不是懦弱,反而是更有勇氣。
2009-02-27 @ 20:39
迴響 from: 異形,100歲 [訪問者] Email · http://stephenalien.pixnet.net/blog
為何我在K2看到有人在討論朱恐龍在史丹佛那篇推薦的片子?
2009-02-28 @ 00:56
迴響 from: 挖挖哇 [訪問者]
****-
想到魯迅、胡適,在那個年代,這些文人想要怎麼改變中國?發揚中國文化醬缸?支持開明專制?強調國族主義?最近看了Discovery「世界百大發現」才知道這18、19、20世紀的科學能夠如此快速蓬勃的發展,外國人的某種「精神」真的是居功厥偉,光說「醫學的各種發現」就不知道救了多少「億」的人了~,我在想這也許是歐美歷史中「城邦制」「小國寡民」「種族混雜」
等等所造成某種「融合」「無法自私」的結果,每個歐美國家都已是不同族群融合的後代,已經沒有純種的「某某人」了~
2009-02-28 @ 03:06
迴響 from: 挖挖哇 [訪問者]
*****
在支那,起初國民黨追殺共產黨員,我沒有說話——因為我不是共產黨員;
但是卻被共產黨追殺逃到台灣來~
接著國民黨追殺台灣菁英,我沒有說話——因為我不是台灣菁英;
後來國民黨追殺可能的匪諜,我沒有說話——因為我不是匪諜;
此後國民黨追殺台獨等異議份子,我沒有說話——因為我不是台獨異議份子;
最後國民黨追殺........不想跟支那統一的份子、支持藏獨的份子~
只有高牆不會承認有錯也不會有錯,就算有錯也是別人害的環境所逼或者歷史共業~

Lucifer:我看那個牆頭草佛來敵一下子說要追殺阿扁,一下子又說跟他是好友,活的很好耶。是不是請他親身說明一下如何被追殺?
2009-02-28 @ 03:31
迴響 from: 陳健拉 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/wos5468
那個...留政治性留言的
這個部落格的版朱已經講過他不喜歡政治文了
http://blogs.myoops.org/lucifer.php/2008/05/13/fuckpolitics

如果您有親身被政治追殺的八掛,請寫信給魯西法文教機構的朱執行長:
lucifer.chu@gmail.com

若是題材聳動、話題感人,
他一定會幫您專門寫一篇文章來增加點閱率的(當然一定會有值日生)
這裡的政治性留言只會引來更多口水性留言的啦...

----------------------------------------------------------------
還有那個..我想問一下樓上留言的挖挖哇君:
你說當初國民黨在清黨的時候,你沒有說話.....
照時間推算下來的話,你應該也八十好幾了吧
老人家消消氣,以你從歷史看事情的高度,就別跟這些臭阿宅計較了啦...
2009-02-28 @ 09:28
迴響 from: 阿威 [訪問者]
原來這才真正的是村上春樹!!(大驚)

希望朱大能與村上兄直接交流,慫恿他多做情色的描寫!!我絕覺得村上沒涉獵官能小說,真是文學界的一大憾事啊啊啊啊!!
2009-02-28 @ 11:31
迴響 from: Pride [訪問者]
賓拉登只不過是打著雞蛋的名義
去撞爛另一個國家的雞蛋的一堵高牆
2009-02-28 @ 11:43
迴響 from: 挖挖哇 [訪問者]
*****
回陳健拉大,我不是政治魔人,只是看到朱大對「總是和雞蛋站在同一邊」這麼重視,我很感動,也想多說些心得給大家參考,當然朱大很多所作所為關心弱勢為弱勢發聲另我非常欽佩,我只是想重點的講一句話,這世界或社會要一直不斷的追求公平公正,否則應該沒有國家配稱為「法治國家、民主國家」,只要有關「公平公正平等」的話題,就是100%「政治性」的~,說要跟「政治」畫清界線的人,不是「阿Q」就是相對矛盾~
2009-02-28 @ 11:53
迴響 from: 陳健拉 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/wos5468
****-
回覆挖挖哇老前輩:

你扯的太遠了啦
我只是想知道你現在幾歲而已
一位宣稱見證了清黨、勦匪(大陸的朋友們請不要見怪啦,我們這邊習慣這樣講啦)及白色恐怖的活物,就別跟整天醉生夢死掛網科科笑的臭阿宅計較啦~~~

------------------------------------
節錄朱恐龍小姐自阿宅萬事通事務所2008年05月13日發表的文章:

我討厭政治文的原因,不是因為政治本身
我真正討厭政治文的原因,是因為那些寫政治文的人。是因為那些會因為政治立場、政治仇恨而罔顧最基本的人性、公平與憐憫之心的人。


【我討厭政治文的原因】連結:
http://blogs.myoops.org/lucifer.php/2009/02/25/alwaysstandontheeggside#c53045

16歲花樣年華朱恐龍小姐的Plurk:
http://www.plurk.com/luciferchu

2009-02-28 @ 12:31
迴響 from: 陳健拉 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/wos5468
我發現我把【我討厭政治文的原因】連結貼錯了
http://blogs.myoops.org/lucifer.php/2008/05/13/fuckpolitics

這個才是對的啦
2009-02-28 @ 12:39
迴響 from: foxhound40 [訪問者] · http://foxhound40.pixnet.net/blog
朱大大,借轉!
2009-02-28 @ 14:15
迴響 from: noodle K [訪問者]
范可欽昨天在中廣節目中要把演奏國樂"正妹"
推給你耶~~~~
2009-02-28 @ 15:25
迴響 from: 挖挖哇 [訪問者]
最近看了「我在伊朗長大」這部動畫,發現這世界還真沒有新鮮事,在那
二十世紀初至中葉的時代,這個世界除了世界大戰,各個國家都面臨著國
家的革命與內戰,推翻帝制,帶來了「左派」與「右派」的戰爭,就像
「共產黨」與「國民黨」的戰鬥,每個國家都在發生,只是伊朗剛好是
「國民黨」勝利了,結果「上百萬的共產黨員」就像「白色恐怖」一樣,
全都被「判刑」或「處死」,不管「左手贏」還是「右手贏」都是「地
獄」在等著,也有點像美國的「南北戰爭」,似乎「戰爭就等於地獄」
呀~,以我現在想「共產主義」還真是先進呀~,當時能夠認同「共產主
義的人」還真是有思想呀~,「共產主義」近似「烏托邦」但是似乎需要
有足夠的「教育、知識、科技、正念」的人心狀態的環境,才能夠有「執
行」的可行性,先進國家的社會福利與救援制度,也越來越有這種味道,
北歐的「瑞典」與「芬蘭」真的是值得世界各國多多學習說~
2009-03-01 @ 12:20
迴響 from: DFY [訪問者]
挖挖哇哩咧,怎麼有人跑錯地方....
2009-03-01 @ 13:18
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
左手邊那個小公主真心話是什麼鬼東西"囧
2009-03-01 @ 16:10
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
TO:王中之王的王

那表示在朱大粗獷的外表下,其實擁有著一顆16歲少女純真的心!(大誤)
2009-03-01 @ 16:25
迴響 from: 九月 [訪問者] Email · http://sepxx.blogspot.com
*****
跟雞蛋標題相比
更引起我目光的是這句話
我們每個人都擁有一個獨特的,活生生的靈魂。體制卻沒有。我們不能容許體制踐踏我們。我們不能容許體制自行其是。體制並沒有創造我們:是我們創造了體制
2009-03-01 @ 19:23
迴響 from: metalbh [訪問者]
....自以為正義的傢伙真是讓人覺得不悅....
講東扯西,當嘴巴說著在xx,起初xx追殺oo,我沒有說話——因為我不是oo;接著xx追殺aa,我沒有說話——因為我不是oo;後來xx追殺bb,我沒有說話——因為我不是bb;此後xx追殺cc,我沒有說話——因為我是dd;最後他們奔我而來,卻再也沒有人為我站出來了...這段話的人,你是不是另一個追殺別人的人!!!,我嚴重的懷疑,你們解釋這段有意意的話的時候秉持的是什麼樣的心情跟立場,是不是不是跟你們同立場的就是高牆?你們永遠都是雞蛋?這太詭異了....村上的書我喜歡的原因是那種疏離感,今日看到他的人道關懷,讓我感動,至於覺得自己永遠在被迫害的人,也希望請你們思考你們是不是在迫害另一群人.雞蛋跟高牆隨時都有可能變換位置的...
2009-03-01 @ 23:58
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
TO:王中之王的王

不知道你有沒有看過一套日本漫畫
[岸和田博士 科學的愛情]-湯尼嶽崎

其中有一段描述如何對付特攝片裡的怪獸:

在巨大的怪獸的背後,
可以發現一條拉鍊,
把拉鍊拉下來,
然後,
把躲在怪獸裝裡面中年大叔拖出來打就是了...

====
也就是說,
若下次有機會,
看有哪為勇者願意把朱大背後的那一條拉鍊拉下來,
說不定可以看到小公主躲在裡面唷~~~~
幹也有可能會讓朱大褲子掉下來以至於被當成李小籠打飛出去....囧
2009-03-02 @ 00:24
迴響 from: GCVincent [訪問者]
to認為自己有創造體制的台灣網民
抱歉啊!
中華民國的體制是五權分立,三民主義是
國父說過兄弟所獨見創獲者

中華民國憲法是在民國三十五年十二月二十五日經制憲國民大會議決通過
(有參與制憲又能上網出聲的國大代表是哪位?)

投票選賢與能是憲法裡規定公民的權利
投票制度指根據投票人的選擇以選出結果的方法。最常見的投票莫過於選出公職的選舉。投票其他用途包括授獎、選出行動計畫、或由電腦程式決定複雜問題的解決方案。與投票相對的是共識決策法。

都是wiki/google/還有參考總統府網頁。

也許是過於狹隘,反正你們怎麼爽都行

(Lucifer:所以我說這世界一切都是上帝創造的,我們都沒有責任嘛!
2009-03-02 @ 01:51
迴響 from: GCVincent [訪問者]
補充
中華民國在台灣

中華民國憲法
中華民國基於三民主義,為民有民治民享之民主共和國。

如果沒有看錯,
中華民國政治體制是民主共和國。
有哪位參與創造民主共和國體制啊?
下列幾位?

延伸閱讀
from wiki

清末民初四大高手

* 鐵拳無敵孫中山
* 天縱奇才、百戰無敗績毛澤東
* 霸王再世、洪憲帝王袁世凱
* 抱中腿、中腿掃天下蔣中正

# 五拳憲法:(參看五權憲法):行正拳、靂法拳、絲髮拳、烤世拳、奸鍘拳
# 五拳現法 ─ 形正‧力發‧思法‧靠勢‧兼察
# 三明主義(光技):(參看三民主義):明拳(攻擊)、明足(輕功)、明身(內功)
# 三冥主義(影技):冥遊‧冥至‧冥想(心法)
# 明拳出步-輕功(參看民權初步)
# 劍國大綱-劍法(參看建國大綱)
# 建國大罡-護身罡氣
# 共產正氣決:一層,[建黨];二層,[繼中山];三層,[抗日];四層,[敗蔣];五層,[建國]
# 天國神訣(參考十誡):


2009-03-02 @ 02:08
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
岸和田是國民讀本
番茄的生態是經典=.=

----

應該說在沒人看到的時候
魯西法朱是貨真價實的小公主?(亮出解剖圖

唔呃,突然有點不舒服...."囧
2009-03-02 @ 03:38
迴響 from: michael [訪問者]
本人並不是春上村樹迷。
我看春上村樹作品的原因單純只是因為故事好看

春上村樹 or 村上春樹...傻傻的分不清楚....



果然不是村上迷.....XD~
2009-03-02 @ 08:53
迴響 from: Sheng-fen Lee [訪問者] Email
*****
喜歡村上春樹很久了。其實他寫的小說我沒有完全懂過,但是他在沙林毒氣事件後,寫了「約束的場所」和「地下鐵」讓我非常感動;文字的力量是很大的,而他善用文字的力量,反映了該事件的加害與受害方各自的觀點。我相信村上先生不會用粗糙的方式判斷誰是雞蛋、誰是高牆。
謝謝朱學恒先生翻譯村上的講稿,我想把這篇文章印給我的學生看,傳達村上先生的呼籲,還勞煩朱學恒先生告知可否轉載作非商業用途,感謝。

(Lucifer:前面有寫說可以耶,要看留言嘛!~~~
2009-03-02 @ 09:32
迴響 from: 阿拉丁 [訪問者]
葉問真好看!詠春拳…西西哈哈…葉老先生真是個溫文儒雅的武術權威….
庫德族人到底講了啥笑話啊?老大…
2009-03-02 @ 11:31
迴響 from: Figo [訪問者]
有一句話
"歷史永遠是贏的人寫下來的"
輸的人 弱勢的 永遠是錯的那一邊
我很開心 他想寫不會被寫到的那一邊
2009-03-02 @ 11:48
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
這麼會剛好跟梵谷同名啊.....超煩人的討厭鬼.....囧"



我覺得這世界是由如來佛祖創造的XD!
2009-03-02 @ 13:14
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.flickr.com/photos/baabuu/
***
韓國人!!韓國人!!韓國人!!
2009-03-02 @ 13:34
迴響 from: 陳健拉 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/wos5468
****-
最近看了「我在阿宅萬事通事務所長大」這部紀錄片,
發現這世界還真沒有新鮮事,
在那二十一世紀初至中葉的時代,
這個世界除了金融海嘯,各個國家都面臨著阿宅的革命與內戰,
推翻阿同伯,帶來了英文科「考作文」與「不考作文」的戰爭,
就像「士林大上海生奸包」與「士林原上海生奸包」的戰鬥,
每場宅聚都在發生,只是第三次宅聚剛好是「士林原上海生奸包」勝利了,
結果「上百萬的士林大上海生奸包」的支持者就像「白色恐怖」一樣,
全都被判「吃屎」或「浸豬籠」,
不管「大上海」贏還是「原上海」贏都是「屎和豬隆」在等著,
也有點像Patapon的「火山關卡」,似乎「不升級成機械燒餅的戰士都準備等死」呀~,
以我現在想「士林原上海生奸包」還真是先進呀~,當時能夠認同「士林原上海生奸包」還真是有思想呀~,
「士林原上海生奸包」近似「刈包」但是似乎需要有足夠的「教育、知識、科技、正念」的人心狀態的環境,
才能夠有「執行」的可行性,
先進夜市的場站管理與黑道收費制度,也越來越有這種味道,
北部的「士林」與「饒河街」真的是值得全台各地多多學習說~

---------------------------------------------
幹..我掰不下去了啦XDDD
2009-03-02 @ 14:21
迴響 from: 丁丁 [訪問者]
健拉美少女~
自從你正身為美少女後~~
實在不習慣你這麼豪邁的說”ㄍㄢˋ”耶~~科科….
2009-03-02 @ 15:47
迴響 from: 陳健拉 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/wos5468
****-
那我以後可以改說e04嗎?

可醬子好像在幫某奴隸銀行打廣告耶...
2009-03-02 @ 16:44
迴響 from: 陳健拉 [訪問者]
****-
為什麼要把小美工扯進來
就算是非凡大探索有不一定問得這麼清楚哩

如果一張DM的設計費不是含在印刷裡面
而是能有合理的價格
那小美工也會更用心的

惡性競爭下業主凹老闆榨的小美工留
2009-03-02 @ 20:08
迴響 from: 陳健拉 [訪問者]
****-
唉唉

同是天涯淪落人
相逢何必曾相識...
2009-03-02 @ 20:49
迴響 from: 阿拉丁 [訪問者]
老大要去加州喔~
希望當地是個陽光普照的天氣,可以搭配青春少女的虎背熊腰呀!
2009-03-03 @ 09:52
迴響 from: 阿拉丁 [訪問者]
天氣大大有在動動腦+1
(阿拉丁的腦袋快生鏽了..)
2009-03-03 @ 12:17
迴響 from: 宅妹 [訪問者]
破報上的一則新聞~和大家分享
http://pots.tw/node/1849

「請把我們祖母的名字從大屠殺紀念館移除。」一對猶太兄弟寫信給了以色列總統以及大屠殺紀念館(Yad Vashem)館長,要求他們祖母─Gertrud Neumann的名字從館外紀念碑上移除,對以色列至今入侵巴勒斯坦的行為表達抗議。這封信如此寫道:「作為一個猶太人,我從小就被教育以族群平等為基礎,對抗法西斯─猶太人就是反法西斯者。但以色列讓我痛心,猶太人與法西斯之間,居然有了不可逆轉的廉潔。你們不再對我祖母的記憶擁有任何權利,請把她的名字移除。」(新聞來源:Counter Punch)
2009-03-03 @ 13:19
迴響 from: winni [訪問者] Email · http://www.winni.idv.tw
*****
越來越喜歡你了 ~~~
2009-03-04 @ 00:25
迴響 from: Jamie~~曾經是你的小嘍囉。 [訪問者] · http://gotravelgirl.wordpress.com/
*****
朱老大,剛看別人轉貼你的網誌中村上的講詞,為你獻上敬意,很棒的分享。

最近剛好也在看村上的散文小品
對於他“這個人“的價值觀和想法又稍有進一步的認識
2009-03-04 @ 14:38
迴響 from: colin [訪問者]
*****
初看本文很贊同村上的雞蛋論
但是日前想了想後
開始發現 雖然支持弱勢的一方看起很符合邏輯
但是雞蛋跟高牆又是誰來定義
當有另一個更強大的力量 來制衡高牆時
誰又是雞蛋 誰又是高牆呢??

雙子星大廈裡的是雞蛋?
巴基斯坦的老弱婦孺是雞蛋?

恐怖分子是高牆?
武裝游擊隊是高牆?
美軍是高牆?
UN是高牆?

突然間陷入混亂中...
2009-03-07 @ 17:26
迴響 from: 路人 [訪問者] Email
***--
回應>>小安與朱先生

"迴響 from: 小安 [訪問者]

村上如果要站在雞蛋的一邊
那似乎應該拒絕這個獎
表達對近來以色列以強大的武力
屠殺巴勒斯坦人
拒絕這個獎的新聞性更大
更容易引起人們對加薩走廊的關心

或者
他是站在雞蛋的一邊沒錯
但是
是站在雞蛋的上面

(Lucifer:他拒絕這個獎你看的到這段演講嗎?)"

>>朱先生~
您的這句話豈不陷入"雞生蛋蛋生雞的哲學邏輯"了嗎?
我認同小安的說法--難道不赴以色列拒絕獎項,就不能發表這段演講嗎?
演講的衝擊究竟對以色列人有多少效果? 您看看影片中許多人坐著不鼓掌不難分曉.
"亦不欲自己的作品被杯葛"也是矯情之語,村上春樹的讀者在回教世界本來就不多的,有何擔心之有?

我是村上的書迷,但討厭矯情高調的語言,既然要反戰,就大聲反戰,痛斥以色列,不必假道學地迂迴吧

Lucifer:挖聽眾坐著不鼓掌就是沒有效果?那你是希望他們跟日本搞笑節目一樣從椅子上跌下來嗎?
2009-03-10 @ 15:54
迴響 from: 路人 [訪問者] Email
*----
不是 坐著不鼓掌 說明的是一種態度
or should we say, the attitude of The System.
2009-03-10 @ 16:04
迴響 from: VIN [訪問者]
村上是我最喜歡的作家之一,在地下鐵事件這本報導文學的作品後,就很少看到他直接表態譴責這種威脅生命的根本「惡」了。

他藉由領獎,找到和高牆進行對話的媒介。

和最近看池田大作先生的「人道主義競爭:歷史的新潮流」這篇和平倡言的摘要後,有一樣的感受。

http://sgichn.org/works/cht/proposals/peace2009sum-cht.html

英文版的:
http://www.daisakuikeda.org/main/peacebuild/peace-proposals/607.html
2009-03-11 @ 19:57
迴響 from: aska1978123 [訪問者]
潛水好久,第一次在這留言,老實說,以前常拿他小說來打xx....因為感覺校園圖書館內能夠光明正大看到這類型小說,也算是在那苦難時光的安慰吧,不知算不算是另類的書迷...

原文借轉,我會註明出處的 感恩
2009-03-13 @ 01:04
迴響 from: 西松學生 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/tony0321
*----
「若要在高聳的堅牆與以卵擊石的雞蛋之間作選擇,我永遠會選擇站在雞蛋那一邊。」

我只是一名高中生,或許是我的理解能力不夠,不過對於這句話,我有另一種解讀法:
如果說「轟炸機、戰車、火箭與白磷彈是那堵高牆」,「被壓碎、燒焦、射殺的手無
寸鐵的平民則是雞蛋」是一種比喻的角度,那所謂的「高牆」不就是指我們心中的殺戮、仇恨
、暴力、嫉妒、自私以及過度的自以為是,而「雞蛋」,是我們面對這人類千年以來最強大的
邪惡力量下的一種無力狀態。站在雞蛋的立場寫小說,是為了要讓每一位讀這本書的讀者
看見對面的那堵牆,思索什麼是對的而什麼是錯的。
  每個人都有他存在的意義,生存的獨特性,這是不可抹滅的,可惜它就如雞蛋般脆弱
,所以我們必須團及我們的靈魂,不管那高牆多麼的正當,都必須讓它倒下。
2009-03-13 @ 21:35
迴響 from: 建璋(彰化高中) [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/true811015
*****
「若要在高聳的堅牆與以卵擊石的雞蛋之間作選擇,我永遠會選擇站在雞蛋那一邊。」

這句話
其實多麼深透人心
簡短的幾個字
抨擊了現在這個生病的社會
的確
不管那高牆多麼的正當
那雞蛋多麼的咎由自取
或許時間或是歷史會下判斷
但是我們其實還是不能忽略
在這體制下的人民
這場演講好讚ˋˋˋ
我很喜歡
2009-03-14 @ 18:38
迴響 from: kimball [訪問者]
雖然不是那麼合通俗語言
不過"system"還是直接翻"系統"比較好
翻"體制"常讓人望文生義成"institute"

另外,村上在世界末日與冷酷異境中的"組織"
(賴明珠翻譯版),日文其實是"システム",
也就是"system"的外來語
大家可藉此揣摩system在村上的話中,所指為何..
2009-03-20 @ 09:26
迴響 from: cadeaux [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/cadeaux
*****
謝謝你的用心翻譯,我轉貼到我的部落格了
會註明出處
2009-03-28 @ 23:14
迴響 from: aqmimi [訪問者]
謝謝你的分享,借用於部落格。感恩
2009-04-29 @ 00:15
迴響 from: asemia [訪問者]
您的文章寫得很讓我感動!
另外有個小小建議
在閱讀您的網誌時
總是非常lag
不知道是否因為圖檔太大的緣故
我分別用兩台雙核心電腦的瀏覽器
連到您的網頁閱讀都很不順暢
如果能讓任何低等級的電腦都能
順暢的瀏覽您的網頁 不是很好嗎
我已經訂閱您的網誌 謝謝你的分享

Lucifer:這是....這是因為頻寬的問題...orz....
2009-05-06 @ 02:53
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/baabuu
***
to asemia

我猜你還是在用ie6吧?

用ie6上朱大的部落格會很累唷~~~

建議你換個瀏覽器吧
火狐/opera/google哪個都好,
甚至是換ie7/ie8都有很大的改善....

====
我自己本身在用opera瀏覽器
不論是
現任本本的肛人射AMD498MHz
前任本本松下賽揚500MHz
前前任本本松下奔騰166MHZ
看朱大的部落格都很順阿~~~
(頻寬喔,我家種花adsl:1m,
外出台哥大3G:460.8kbps)

我想這三台加起來也打不過一台雙核吧....
2009-05-06 @ 14:02
迴響 from: asemia [訪問者]
可能的確是瀏覽器版本跟頻寬問題吧~
昨天是分別用學網跟adsl連 螢幕捲動就很卡~
ie6目前應該還是主流的瀏覽器版本
(xp猖狂的結果?每次重灌就自動降級XD)
所以一直保留這個可怕的版本來測試網頁
(因為很多人電腦只要求能用就好 不會去升級軟體)
今天連有好多了...大概我這風水比較差^^"
2009-05-06 @ 17:13
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/baabuu
***
to asemia

1.
IE6的確是目前市場大宗沒錯,
不過他也是目前市場上最不合格的瀏覽器之一,
原因是IE6並沒有符合W3C(全球資訊網聯盟)的規範,
讓不少程式/網頁設計師又愛又恨.
只要IE6能瀏覽就算搞定,
但是IE6又搞出很多非標準的東西....

還好IE8(IE7?)是符合W3C規範的產品
(雖然我覺得速度還是很慢)

====

2.
火狐
OPERA
Chrome
都有免安裝版可以用唷~~
2009-05-06 @ 21:33
迴響 from: asemia [訪問者]
我只是分享第一次踏入這個網站的感覺(但也可能是錯覺啦)~就像現在新的電腦螢幕應該都是寬螢幕了,但一定有更多的人的電腦還停留在800*600解析度,總之無意冒犯,我只是希望看到版大文章的感動,也能發生在更多人身上!^_^
2009-05-07 @ 17:34
迴響 from: Charly kafka [訪問者] · http://wallandegg.blogspot.com/
***--
自己名字都打錯....我是Charly Kafka......
不好意思佔用版面。
2009-05-12 @ 20:58
迴響 from: ak571 [訪問者]
站在卵的這邊,需要極大的勇氣與定力,實非凡人所能為。凡人但求自保,總是站在牆的那邊,那也無可厚非。但是,可千萬不要在破卵的上頭吐唾液,雖然這樣的畜牲也不少。
2009-06-09 @ 11:58
迴響 from: nanaki [訪問者]
--
"村上如果要站在雞蛋的一邊
那似乎應該拒絕這個獎
表達對近來以色列以強大的武力
屠殺巴勒斯坦人
拒絕這個獎的新聞性更大
更容易引起人們對加薩走廊的關心

或者
他是站在雞蛋的一邊沒錯
但是
是站在雞蛋的上面"
--
若高牆指的是以民族大義之名行屠殺擴張之實的以色列
難道雞蛋指的就是那些利用平民進行自殺攻擊的恐怖分子領袖嗎?
今天有力量對村上威脅 杯葛的 絕對不會是他口中的蛋 只是另一道牆
去領獎 是站在暴力這邊 接受威脅而不領獎 也是站在暴力這邊
我想村上真正關懷的是兩道牆之中無力的人們
而他選擇的方式我想是最好的做法
--
"我很好奇,村上春樹先生
您總是和雞蛋站在同一邊的說法
在日本軍閥侵華、九一八、一二八、南京大屠殺..等等事件中

您仍是和雞蛋站在同一邊嗎?"
--
這不知道是哪來的糞青
根本連人家的作品都沒看過就來跳針

日軍 滿州 老兵 這是在村上小說中多次出現過的元素
不管是早期的尋羊冒險記或是比較後來的發條鳥
從這些細節描寫的方式 和敘述時的情境
不難看出村上對暴力的態度
事實上不管是體制的暴力 還是以反抗體制為名的暴力
只要傷害抹滅人的獨特性 村上都是相當厭惡的

當然這兩則留言很可能是沒經過大腦的嘴砲
過了幾個月也不太可能有人看到
只是身為村上的書迷 還是覺得有點不爽 發篇廢文吐點怨氣
2009-06-12 @ 02:05
迴響 from: childman [訪問者]
*****
朱大,此篇借我引用至我的facebook上,與人分享。

(Lucifer:沒問題!)
2009-08-05 @ 20:34
迴響 from: 路人3 [訪問者]
朱大

我把您這篇貼到01的莫拉克颱風版


如有不妥煩請告知

災民與國家 雞蛋與高牆


謝謝您
2009-08-18 @ 02:25
迴響 from: Zane [訪問者]
*****
請問可以用在個人網誌上嗎? 其他翻譯版本 總覺得什麼地方怪怪的...


另外 拿這來跟救災扯上關係 好像沒什麼意義吧...
2009-08-22 @ 19:19
迴響 from: 朱恐龍 [成員]
轉貼都可以啦,我對怎麼用沒意見。

Lucifer
2009-08-22 @ 22:52
迴響 from: Online Banking Saftey [訪問者] · http://www.squidoo.com/Internet-Banking-Online
Strange this post is totaly unrelated to what I was searching google for, but it was listed on the first page. I guess your doing something right if Google likes you enough to put you on the first page of a non related search. :)
2010-10-13 @ 14:35
Don't think its wise to do that.... but go for it if you want!
2010-10-27 @ 07:10
I appreciate this post, I've passed this along to my coworkers inside the fashion marketplace.
2010-10-29 @ 02:29
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2011-01-03 @ 04:27
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2011-01-03 @ 06:01
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2011-01-03 @ 07:38
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2011-01-06 @ 01:30
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2011-01-06 @ 04:42
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2011-01-08 @ 00:45
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2011-01-08 @ 16:02
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2011-01-09 @ 03:54
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2011-01-09 @ 21:59
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