朱恐龍
朱恐龍

各位懦夫們請注意! (153854 views)
     

各位懦夫們大家好。

由於前一篇的文嚴格講起來是在懦夫在下敝人小弟我為了趕著打電動所寫出來的文章。

所以特別推出這一篇補完的內容,為各位深刻分析所謂的奴隸勇者理論到底是如何發展出來的,就當作一個背景吱識吧。

首先,我們必須要讓各位看看楊基寬先生當年創辦104銀行時所抱持的理念是多麼的高潔!

http://www.igshanghai.com/tzsh/tz_news.php?id=242

這篇文章是104人力銀行在今年想要轉大陸市場時,所接受專訪的內容!

請各位看看!

因為楊基寬不希望他女兒二十年後看到的社會跟他看到的是一樣的!他成功了!因為台灣的勞工市場成功的在他的幫忙之下,更往奴隸市場的方向邁進!

那個時候的楊基寬,剛好沒有工作,而社會基本上沒有一個福利制度來解決他的問題!←他成功了!那時沒有福利制度,現在有,但你如果留在學校讀書,他會罵你是懦夫!

楊基寬開始常常的反思:作為一個標準的受害者,感同身受這種不完善的社會福利制度所帶來的痛苦,如果我可以設計一個人性化的職場管道來解決我自己的問題.....←他成功了!所以他變成老闆,但曾經深受痛苦的受害者,現在變成資方的第一把交椅要來幹攪大學生和勞方有多麼不長進!

楊基寬的一個美好的近乎理想化的願望:要讓我們的社會及整個職場更加的人性,更加的有尊嚴。這....很可惜他的成功導致了我們的失敗,這是一個更沒有尊嚴的職場!因為他認為你找不到工作就該去幫企業免費的打工!

Follow up:

其實,我在今年參加鐵支人力銀行協辦的活動時,那時候在交大我就對學生講過,多花時間進修或是去參與國防役,躲避不景氣的低潮,沒有什麼好可恥的。

ㄟ,等等,你別以為我是鐵支人力銀行的打手,他這次還跳出來說什麼大學生沒有懦夫之類的.....呿呿,這根本就是尚書大人的行徑哪!

鐵支銀行也不是什麼好東西,可以亂寄廣告信寄到教育部跑出來發了下面這篇文,也算是全球人力仲介業者首開先例的妙招了!

http://www.excellent.lhu.edu.tw/ToNews.aspx?Bnx=16890199

啊,抱歉,岔題去罵鐵支人力銀行了。

總之,我當時跟交大阿宅所說的這句話很簡單。

當景氣不好的時候,求職市場上有很多擁有經驗的被裁員者在跟這些大學或是研究所的應屆畢業生搶飯碗,同時合理的薪資也被拉到很低的程度。

應屆畢業生如果硬是在這個階段湊熱鬧擠上就業市場:顯而易見的結果有幾個:

第一、公司在合理相同薪資範圍內,當然用有經驗的老鳥,所以應屆菜鳥找不到工作。

第二、就算找的到工作,起薪也低到讓第一份工作的薪水就輸在起跑點,要再跳槽找新工作想要更多錢就變得更困難。

第三、應屆菜鳥一直找不到工作,導致畢業之後好幾個月甚至一年成了空窗期。下次面試時HR就會問你:「是不是能力有問題所以畢業之後這麼久都找不到工作啊?」

所以,先去讀個研究所的碩士,或是去國防役工作,等到景氣回春之後再回來投入就業市場,很合理呀!(補充一下,以上策略是本人意見,請分析認同之後再服用,不管用可別怪我啊~~~

為什麼這樣就他媽的變成了個懦夫?

然後104銀行本身的立場也是很妙,一直跳來跳去。之前他們說要對企業多多付出,要有忠誠心,等到他們推出外包網,想讓上班族兼差時,就會跑出來說:

利用下班時間兼差,不但可增加收入,也可擴展其他職涯發展可能

楊基寬說:社會指望你讀研究所是希望你論文的研究主題能為社會或產業解決某一個學士生無法解決的問題,而不是指望你拿一篇長篇大論甚至是廢話連篇的論文來滿足你個人狹隘的虛榮心和薪水的要求

你老闆都說讀碩士不可以只為了虛榮心和薪水,然後為了推104教育網,邱文仁又跳出來說2009職場趨勢念研究所是上班族求生的解藥~~~

工作不好找,因此上班族學習意願更強。在104教育網中,前五名的關鍵字搜尋是「在職進修、推廣教育、彩妝、日語、全民英檢」,可以看出目前上班族增進職場競爭力的方法及目標。另外,由於大學文憑的價值低落,60%沒有碩士學位的上班族未來有唸研究所的計畫。顯示在職場的生存壓力下,進修是許多上班族求生的解藥。

媽啦,這樣我到底要相信誰?

好啦,另外楊基寬最帥氣的一個勇者策略其實也不是這次在成大第一次提出來的,其實過去幾個月104銀行已經喊了好幾次,只是可能因為太好笑,大家沒有認真看待而已。

早在2008年10月31號的世新大學共同課程委員會中,104銀行的李明倫營運長就說了至理名言啦!

然後楊基寬又在2009年5月21號的記者會裡面老調重提:「自告奮勇的去跟你想要去的那一家公司,我願意當義工,我不拿薪水的意思,這可以展現你的決心,獲取職場最需要你的工作經驗,磨練自己,不會生鏽」。

好啦,別的不提,就只說楊基寬在成大畢業典禮上的這個勇者策略好了!

你可不可以告訴我哪家智障公司會用這種莫名其妙穿著西裝跑上門做事不要錢的神經病啦!

難怪網友說這個勇者策略是台灣勞工權益大倒退到蓄奴時代以前了,因為當奴隸主人還得供你吃喝,讓你有力氣工作,但楊基寬的勇者策略連上班交通費和便當都要自己買耶!

這樣是不是比奴隸還要慘!

Lucifer

好了,暫時宣洩了我胸中多日來的一口怨氣。

於是最後跟各位分享楊基寬亂問亂答的一個小花絮:

在連續兩家公司都是改變不了環境就離開的楊基寬大人......

在人家投書問他是不是該離開科技業創業的時候,楊基寬大人的回答竟然是:


「與其現在創業,不如先試著讓自己在原公司裡創造一次反敗為勝的成績,信心來了,創業成功的機率也會大幅提高。」

啊你當年咧?

有沒有創業成功之後就忘記自己當年經驗亂回答的八卦?

所以啊,楊基寬說話,大家隨便聽聽就好了,別太認真啊.......

Lucifer

補充.....原來楊基寬這個勇者策略叫做府兵制....

http://www.plurk.com/momizi 幫查出來的....orz....

府兵平時務農,戰時為兵,並自備正武器。糧食和衣物,能節省國家養兵之費。

還有,補充一下:104的員工,請各位來這邊理性討論,不要只會匿名放話抹黑和警告人,這樣一點意義都沒有呀!

http://blogs.myoops.org/lucifer.php/2009/06/10/slave2#c59120 (看看這留言就知道了。)

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迴響(1217)

迴響 from: jasonpid [訪問者]
七年級文藝筆者-朱學恆
我抗議啦!! 明明是六年級~~
2009-06-10 @ 20:31
迴響 from: meko [訪問者] · http://album.blog.yam.com/mekoloveryo

2009-06-10 @ 20:36
迴響 from: Emil [訪問者]
*****
這篇內容的立論清楚多了,果然電動阿.....
2009-06-10 @ 20:37
迴響 from: 二休 [訪問者]
XDD,六年級+1
2009-06-10 @ 20:38
迴響 from: Tree [訪問者]
我的神
2009-06-10 @ 20:38
迴響 from: 阿宗 [訪問者] Email
*****
他真的是亂問亂答

沒錢時說錢不是萬能

有錢了就說沒錢是萬萬不能阿

都只找對自己有利的說

這招連國中生告狀都會用阿
2009-06-10 @ 20:40
迴響 from: 波蘿日報 [訪問者] · http://blog.xuite.net/big.max/Polo
這是頭推嗎XDDD加油加油!
2009-06-10 @ 20:40
迴響 from: R.H. [訪問者]
YA~第一次有前五名!
2009-06-10 @ 20:41
迴響 from: 傑森 [訪問者]
啊我是頭幾香嗎?!

阿朱大說的這個104勇者楊基寬是成大的嗎?是我學長呢!我囧了....
2009-06-10 @ 20:41
迴響 from: R.H. [訪問者]
鋪= =馬上就被擠掉...
2009-06-10 @ 20:42
迴響 from: 熱咖啡 [訪問者]
*****
恭喜勇者楊自爆成功XDDDD

要是繼續挖這些人力銀行歷年來的新聞縞一定很爆笑XDDDD
2009-06-10 @ 20:54
迴響 from: Bruce [訪問者]
*****
讚!!
2009-06-10 @ 20:56
迴響 from: Clio [訪問者]
先推
前20耶XD
2009-06-10 @ 21:01
迴響 from: jin0571 [訪問者] Email
口桀口桀,
這就叫柿子要挑軟的吃嗎?
看應屆生好欺負沒工作,
就想出這種勇者策略,
幹要是到時候勇者做半年景氣不回春,
阿不是還是要回家吃自己(畢竟便當和交通費都自己出),最好是以現在的景氣做半年就會回春啦,
阿不然大家都去當勇者去104找工作算了,
看他會不會自打嘴巴任用這些勇者=.=
2009-06-10 @ 21:03
迴響 from: 小渡 [訪問者]
對他來說,反正都是免費的新聞嘛~又可以幫e04人力銀行做做廣告,不做白不做,賺廣告費呀~~
2009-06-10 @ 21:08
迴響 from: ADempiere [訪問者] · http://adempiere.tw
寫得太清楚了,
的確有很多聽起來很高尚的言論根本就是昨天的自己打今天的自己,互相矛盾.
2009-06-10 @ 21:08
迴響 from: 男子漢 [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/afooque/invite
*****
男子漢就是要前十名!
2009-06-10 @ 21:18
迴響 from: BlackKingK [訪問者]
*****
看看就好,他應該去當「政客」的,在人力銀行工作埋沒了他的才能…
前後不一,言詞反覆…

有沒有人要幫他引薦一下的???



有沒有單靠嘴巴就能當上總經理的八卦?
2009-06-10 @ 21:18
迴響 from: AD [訪問者]
***--
Hey Mom,

I'm here~

有前五十我就心滿意足了.
2009-06-10 @ 21:19
迴響 from: Alberto [訪問者]
要噓文!!
朱恐龍裝年輕!!

講一句坦白的,說楊董哪有所謂的「意見」?
只有「利益」而已啦。以上都是順著個人利益偽裝成意見的說詞而以啦,誰信誰就笨蛋!

雖說也不是只有他一個人這樣,不過這樣還覺得我們會相信,有種被侮辱智商的感覺.......
2009-06-10 @ 21:25
迴響 from: 亮晶晶國王 [訪問者]
耶 好開心 排名少少~
2009-06-10 @ 21:27
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
*****
(起身鼓掌)
2009-06-10 @ 21:29
迴響 from: wildrush [訪問者] · http://wildrush.pixnet.net/blog
***--

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown/5583/swf/mensetu.html

伊歐那真的魔法師策略行不通,看來還是得要基加汀的勇者策略才行吧。
2009-06-10 @ 21:29
迴響 from: 嘟豆把子 [訪問者]
呵呵生意人的話隨便說說你就隨便聽聽就好
千萬別認真阿
認真你就是懦夫了
2009-06-10 @ 21:49
迴響 from: DRack [訪問者]
吳怡霈還蠻正的~~嘖嘖~
2009-06-10 @ 21:50
迴響 from: ㄏㄏㄏ [訪問者]
我也留句話好了

我也想請那些這無支薪自學習的那些,來我家打掃、管家、…當然這些是他們自願,我不必支薪,從他們的心裡,又是什麼樣子的感覺呢?

另外,你要一個社會新鮮人,工作不領薪水,他要怎麼過活,難道那些人,會幫那些社會新鮮人打理生活所有一切嗎?

所以他們說那些都只是放屁罷了
沒錯~~~他們就是放屁,拿要別人幫他們作白工罷了吧…

多說無益,無法改變現況,社會不斷惡化,唯人心貪婪不變,尤其是有錢人。
2009-06-10 @ 21:50
迴響 from: 天天都路過 [訪問者]
去你她媽的蛋,,我大推這一篇---我不要做奴隸!!!
2009-06-10 @ 21:58
迴響 from: 痞子同學 [訪問者]
七年級沒錯...
他用的是西元1975...
2009-06-10 @ 22:09
迴響 from: kurt [訪問者]
當然ㄐㄧ寬兄不鼓勵科技新貴跳出來創業,如果人人有功練,個個有業創,那還有誰需要奴隸銀行????
2009-06-10 @ 22:12
迴響 from: 丹尼 [訪問者]
怡霈的照片咧~~(敲碗)

2009-06-10 @ 22:15
迴響 from: 稚齡姐姐 [訪問者] Email · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/dameinui
我之前就注意到楊基寬說話真的是前言不對後語,另外還有一個吳睿穎,感覺也是有了成功就忘了自己以前有多慘。看到這些人在報章雜誌上亂入新鮮人應該怎樣怎樣,不但沒有幫到社會還整個在搞破壞,把大家價值越壓越低,然後肥了奴隸銀行,最好他女兒將來要生活的社會就是這樣!

叫人家做免錢?阿他們乾脆去吃大便啦!神經病!
2009-06-10 @ 22:19
迴響 from: Joky [訪問者] · http://www.peopo.org/puzzles
*****
這兩天我在報名暑假的研習, 有兩個不錯的研習是外縣市的, 我沒法報名, 所以我打電話去跟他們說: 我可以不要研習時數, 但能不能去旁聽。

然後兩間學校都同意了...

但是!!
這是我自己自願表示我不要的, 因為我的研習時數早就破表, 而且我本來也不太稀罕那個數字

沒有別人有權利建議我自己放棄時數!!

請問104 楊先生
有什麼資格"建議別人"不要領薪水去工作??
如果我建議楊先生捐出他全數的財產去協助身心障礙者, 他會願意嗎??
那句話真是好 - "哪種痛苦是人最能忍受的??答案是別人的痛苦"
2009-06-10 @ 22:20
迴響 from: 阿堯-hit8881 [訪問者]
*****
好可惜今天洋基隊被完封了
不過明天王葛格一定會贏紅襪隊喔!!我好喜歡王葛格!
2009-06-10 @ 22:25
迴響 from: Dylan [訪問者]
你說的對
就像1111的吳X穎
上節目也講得振振有辭
我還真好奇他當初是怎麼爬升到現在這個可以靠嘴巴賺錢的職位
2009-06-10 @ 22:25
迴響 from: 刖 [訪問者]
不支薪去實習的話...生活要怎麼過下去?
房租呢?生活費呢?吃飯的金錢的來源呢?
這些人說得真好聽...
2009-06-10 @ 22:26
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
被懦夫說是懦夫的感覺應該不會太好.......(挖鼻孔)


還好我不唸成大XD!

------------------

工作不要支薪,真是別人家小孩死不完的不負責任講法.......反正20年後他已經幫他的小孩存夠錢了啊,他的小孩並不需要跟這些畢業生搶飯碗XD!
2009-06-10 @ 22:32
迴響 from: 雨蒼 [訪問者] Email · http://billy3321.blogspot.com
朱大的文章和觀點小弟一直很認同,也覺得很棒。但是一路看下來,小弟總覺得,朱大似乎總圍繞著時事打轉。比如針對MUST,針對奴隸銀行,針對死刑等問題。朱大似乎總是追著時事打,能反;但是立呢?似乎沒有提出來。
柏楊有本書叫做"醜陋的中國人",小弟一直以來都很推崇;他除了指出問題所在,他還直指問題核心:中國的醬缸文化,中國人愛面子,愛表面工夫.....等等。小弟個人也另外認為,中國傳統教育著重服從,而非獨立思考,這種人云亦云的人們正是台灣目前各種亂象與社會現象最大的問題所在。指出了問題核心,說出了問題所在,大家也才能知道改進的方向。
小弟在這邊建議朱大,在討論這些問題的同時,不要總針對著楊清基先生作文章。這樣文章寫下去,總是讓人感覺有些對人不對事。而且,您打了一個楊先生,還有有名的吳先生,還有千千萬萬為資方出頭的人.....朱大應該針對這種"社會現象"(除了右傾思想外,還有人權婦女團體橫行,各種社會亂象.....)以及"社會價值"提出一個完整的解釋,完整的立論,然後建議大家往後如何從身邊做起.....小弟認為,這樣完整的觀點和論點,將比朱大目前的各種文章,更有價值,也更能讓大家從自己的身邊開始一步一步改變社會。

(Lucifer:楊清基是誰?
2009-06-10 @ 22:33
迴響 from: 秋名山之恥 [訪問者]
*****
難怪我怎麼覺得這幾年工作越來越沒尊嚴...
資方架子越擺越大...
原來是尚書大人在作梗啊...
雞八毛咧...
2009-06-10 @ 22:35
迴響 from: 人看人歐樂~鬼看鬼駁倒 [訪問者]
不是有一句俗諺說嗎:"生意嘴胡蕊蕊!!生意人的話能聽~X都能吃啊!!"不好意思這不是我說的~是老祖先智慧的結晶傳承~
2009-06-10 @ 22:37
迴響 from: 卡林 [訪問者] · http://blog.roodo.com/wingggg
*****
原來這就是標準的見人說人話 見鬼說鬼話了
小弟佩服佩服
難怪能成功了
2009-06-10 @ 22:50
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
不知道為什麼有時看到楊董會想脫口說出

"小平同志贏橋牌還得靠他。"

囧"
2009-06-10 @ 22:55
迴響 from: 跑步者 [訪問者]
最後的內容讓我哭笑不得啊

http://images.movie.mop.com/huayu/2007-12-19/28_8_35387_172_230_20071219101735.JPG
2009-06-10 @ 22:57
迴響 from: yicheng [訪問者]
e04... 不意外...
典型的換了位置就換了腦袋

除非是生活無慮、或是有對等的利益目標存在的情況下,才可能考慮不給薪的工作
都快吃不飽了,還要建議別人去當 "義工"...
2009-06-10 @ 23:02
迴響 from: 黑色娑羅雙樹 [訪問者]
不好意思,小弟不才也有點意見
我想說說關於朱大說的"找不到工作選擇進修也是好的"
其實我覺得應屆畢業生真的應該一開始就做好選擇
如果是見風轉舵,我認為其實滿不智的
比如你要進修,就該在大三做準備
然後準備兩年考研究所或考gmat去國外讀書
如果你在大三或大四就決定要進入職場
然後等你畢業才發現找不到工作
這時才來想說要去進修
如果你是一個天才型的選手
我覺得那ok,因為你可以考進理想的學校
如果不是,你要嘛多花一兩年去考理想的學校
要嘛去讀一個不理想的學校
前者浪費你大好的青春光陰
後者,你出來後,一樣又是一個沒有啥競爭力的應屆畢業生
一樣的問題又要再面對一次
當然強者可以在研究所痛定思痛,就算是不理想的研究所,也可以考進理想的博士班
然後解決這一連串的鬼打牆

否則,我還是建議應屆畢業生先找一份工作
當然不是不支薪,但是低一點也沒辦法
在工作的同時,你可以考慮要開始準備進修
或是培養工作能力,為下個工作準備

朱大說一開始薪水太低,怕會影響後來的薪資發展
其實這是難免的
但是你真的遇上了壞時機,你也只能在困境中求生存

另外告訴大家一些小撇步
多次換職之後,你會發現
既然你之前的薪資,下一個公司會拿來參考
那你又何必老實的報告你之前的薪資
很多業者其實會少報你的薪資給政府
這樣他們可以少給你一些退休金
所以,薪資結構是用正常的管道查不出來的
比如你領兩萬五,下次換工作時,你可以說你領三萬
勞保雖然報兩萬五而已,但是你可以說你還有什麼什麼津貼
這樣,豈不是可以在第二次就職多賺一點
僅供參考囉
2009-06-10 @ 23:11
迴響 from: 黑色娑羅雙樹 [訪問者]
附加說明
上面那一招當然是用在你比薪資水平低太多的時後用
如果你才25歲,你跟人家唬爛說你領四萬
我只能說你直接去吃屎算了
2009-06-10 @ 23:18
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
畢業不是很多人都要先去當兵=.=
2009-06-10 @ 23:20
迴響 from: cchien [訪問者] · http://cchien.pixnet.net/blog
*****

雖然我個人從以前到現在都沒有真正投入到台灣的就業市場中
因為我唯二做過的全職工作都是學校的研究助理,薪水都得比照國科會的規定
但是最近看了許多這方面的報導
覺得台灣的薪資結構出現了一種鬆動且即將面臨崩潰的邊緣
而這種情況大都跟這些人力仲介業者和一些自以為是的職場專家在那搧風點火
讓整個態勢呈現往資方一面倒的情況
我個人是覺得這不單就僅僅是我們自己賺多賺少的問題
而是會連帶影響整體消費,進而變成整體經濟無法有效提升的障礙
薪資若再這樣被繼續打壓下去,甚至所謂去公司當無薪的員工
消費能力下降而物價卻不可能跟著下跌的情況下
之後的問題可想而知
這些諸如"洋基寬"之流的人物都將是這種崩潰底下的劊子手

2009-06-10 @ 23:25
迴響 from: 頭推真有梗~~~~ [訪問者] · http://funny-everyday.blogspot.com/
*****
我來個腳推好了...
2009-06-10 @ 23:25
迴響 from: [POD] fox (26) [訪問者]
7世代,8世代 會遇到什麼呢?
這段時間 (就菊免環)信用卡/ox卡 掘起...
這個時間有一大堆人使用學貸...
這個時間點有一大堆只要付錢不用門檻的學店...
講穿了M世代 不光是兩極,連金錢也是其縮寫

景氣真的還在差嗎?
緊縮人事支出 真的有省嗎?
金融風暴期間 為什麼這麼多公司行號選擇 倒閉/砍新人 ?
沒有一個老闆把自己的雙B拍賣,沒有一個老闆的愛將願意減薪
在台灣這種商業組態的結構 自欺欺人有多少?

話說回來 商業結構內 會讓一個"勇者"加入他們團隊?
你知道小弟面試時對老闆說一句"薪水不是我的重點" 讓老闆疑惑了多久?

重點在於"興趣",為了"興趣"才可能在面臨一堆鳥事/狗屎依然踏步

至於楊老闆
仲介成功就可以賺取公司徵才的仲介費用
是不用擔心他女兒啦,走同路即可
反正失業率高,就可以多仲介幾次

只是基層的勞動者拿著17000回到家面對高堂小孩水電卡債房貸車貸的痛苦 干他屁事 如此而已
然後打兩份工
錢是平了,多出來都是存醫藥費,家庭陌生了,反正企業賺飽飽,還有下一個新鮮的可以墊

太久沒打仗 過太爽了是不是! 產生優越了阿!
2009-06-10 @ 23:29
迴響 from: 呼拉圈 [訪問者]
****-
呼應朱大的話,繼續升學是個不錯的選擇,經濟不好的時候,人力也會殺價競爭,薪水只會越來越低,以下有幾個建議:

1.降低薪資,與公司共體時艱同時搶佔戰略位置,等待春天來臨.在這種時候計較薪水其實是很笨的事情,尤其剛離開學校的學生更要趁機砥礪自己.但是要注意,絕對不要當什麼狗屁實習勞工,一個連薪水都想省下來的公司,通常缺乏長遠的眼光,缺乏完整的訓練,也缺乏完整的福利及升遷管道.

2.繼續升學,多涉獵非本科系的東西.未來的世界需要的是通才,而若有餘力多修外系的課,不但可以增加專業知識,也可以增廣見聞並擴充人脈.多親近大師,可以了解社會的趨勢(或是社會的黑暗面),增加自己的歷練.

3.參加職訓,考取證照,都是自我充實的方法,也可以累積未來就業的資本.

4.去當台幹,身邊的人很多都在當台幹,大部分都在中國或是東南亞,雖然不知道有什麼搞頭,有興趣的可以自己評估看看,磨練個幾年學習一點管理手腕,是很好的履歷.
2009-06-10 @ 23:29
迴響 from: [POD] fox (26) [訪問者]
(補)
關於進修...

這是教育失敗的大笑話
許久年前,小弟求學時 機械正發達
畢業時 土木正抬頭
兩年後 網路資訊爆衝
一年後 金融市場持續的成長
最近 它X的資本跌倒

這些曾經接受專門教育的大批人才 最後呢?
你不進修 沒有多少人用DOS系統了知道嗎!
2009-06-10 @ 23:36
迴響 from: 宅友 [訪問者]
e04是不錯的工具,我不得不同意
相信他鬼話的人是笨蛋,我也不得不同意
2009-06-10 @ 23:40
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
>>如果你才25歲,你跟人家唬爛說你領四萬
我只能說你直接去吃屎算了

====================================
...
......

看行業,看公司。

有沒有新鮮人一進公司月入五萬分紅另計?
(非家族企業)

現在難找,兩年前還有。
2009-06-10 @ 23:43
挖出來的這些言談,我只想到一句老話:

先射箭,再畫靶,不亦準乎?
2009-06-10 @ 23:46
迴響 from: Jason [訪問者] · http://jason0201.blogspot.com/
連兩篇文章的火力真是驚人@@
2009-06-10 @ 23:47
迴響 from: enunion [訪問者]
這種人的話聽聽就算了,本來就不是什麼令人尊敬的人
2009-06-10 @ 23:54
迴響 from: 安東尼歐 [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/antonioying
The Pursuit of Happyness
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/zh/8/81/Poster-pursuithappyness.jpg

突然想到這部電影 .....
2009-06-10 @ 23:56
迴響 from: 阿賓 [訪問者]
突然被朱宅神嚇醒, 居然發現用104找工作從來沒成功過, 真是一語驚醒夢中人
2009-06-10 @ 23:58
迴響 from: 扭曲的社會 [訪問者]
>沒有一個老闆把自己的雙B拍賣,沒有一個老闆的>愛將願意減薪
>在台灣這種商業組態的結構 自欺欺人有多少?

其實這問題我之前一直百思不解
一般來說
先不管大環境怎樣
一家公司搞到虧損
經營不善
不是應該公司的管理團隊要負責嗎??
怎麼反而是基層員工遭到逞罰(裁員)?
上層幹部都還好好的?
這樣對嗎?

就拿我之前待的一家公司來說
業績一直達不到總公司的標準
結果公司經理處理方式是不斷的汰換逼退業務人員(順便吞食其所接洽客戶)
可是業務主管卻沒事?

難道公司沒發現問題是出在主管身上嗎?
那位主管整天遲到
下班常不回公司 這就算了(業務單位嘛)
上班時間他比業務員還難找是怎樣XD
業務人員士氣低落
這樣這團隊會有好的業績表現才怪
結果他反而都沒事?
有事的都是他的業務員?
百思不得其解阿~
2009-06-10 @ 23:59
迴響 from: Sango [訪問者]
有些話真的是聽聽就好 (挖鼻孔
2009-06-10 @ 23:59
迴響 from: 黑色娑羅雙樹 [訪問者]
突然又想到一件事
想再拿出來說一下
小弟目前在一間小有知名度的日商裡工作
去年的金融風暴
本公司台灣這邊還沒有裁員
但是日本那裡已經削減了很多人力
那些人力就是所謂的契約工
而在歐洲那邊更是關了幾個廠

重點是,在亞洲有龍頭地位的日本
勞方被壓迫的狀況早比台灣還慘
日本OL平均月收入不到二十萬日圓
(所才才去拍片子大家看吧:P)
以生活水平來看,這相當於在台灣平均收入不到兩萬
你千萬別以匯率去解讀,認為他們還領有相當六七萬的新台幣
而台灣也正在向日本走近
朱大在這邊痛罵這些人力公司是為大家著想
可是,既然日本有這個榜樣
台灣以前也算是個海盜出身的
這種東西一定會學過來的

人力資源公司會越來越多的
公司裡的正職缺額也會越來越少的

到時後公司只要不跟人力資源續約
你想就知道有多慘了

糟糕了,怎麼說著說著好像我在贊同楊基基的話了
不是的,我堅決反對不支薪
2009-06-10 @ 23:59
迴響 from: "懦"米團 [訪問者]
我認為有心想要朝進人資所相關領域發展的同學們,未來論文題目可能可以朝以下建議進行:
"台灣產業平均薪資與人力銀行發展間的關聯性研究"
動機背景就不用多說了...直接引楊董跟朱同學的論述吧...研究假說嘛...就來個人力銀行的成立(dummy)對平均薪資水準造成負向影響,研究方法可以用Logit迴歸做, 總體資料部份可以先Granger causality配上結構轉變的測試...bla bla...

個人預期研究結果是會具有顯著性的啦....XD
總之, 這是個曾經當過懦弱勇者的老輸給的小小建議...
2009-06-11 @ 00:00
迴響 from: shanejovi [訪問者] · http://shanejovi.blogspot.com/
問題是....媒體跟政府跟企業還是站在他那邊。
馬的!
2009-06-11 @ 00:03
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
re 扭曲的社會:

http://jas9.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-post_21.html

jas9的文章
2009-06-11 @ 00:04
迴響 from: 扭曲的社會 [訪問者]
RE 李目白:

感謝分享
我笑了~

奇怪 眼框怎魔濕濕的
這一定是汗!!
2009-06-11 @ 00:11
迴響 from: ♪☺✿阿花,阿銀❀☻♫ [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/huaxiao123
七年級= =...是為了證明自己不是懦夫所以跳級了嗎...
2009-06-11 @ 00:18
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
在本站最後小明的家還爆炸了...

唉,小明...
2009-06-11 @ 00:18
迴響 from: Jae [訪問者]
*****
他的說法跟某幾本翻譯國外的勵志書有些地方雷同阿,同樣都是宣揚找不到工作就應該以不支薪方式去爭與到工作 然後也許老闆哪天就會突然佛心來著付給你薪水了呢~這世界是多麼陽光~啊~
2009-06-11 @ 00:20
迴響 from: 小蔡 [訪問者]
一個小時內,從1088到12091,
難道是PTT的功勞?
(剛從PTT下線)
2009-06-11 @ 00:24
迴響 from: 流浪小米 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/max9797
*****
精元電腦也有在104刊徵人廣告....

這對舊東家而言會不會很無言啊???
2009-06-11 @ 00:25
迴響 from: dizzy977 [訪問者]
****-
物極必反,最後大家會開始發現,臺灣怎麼會有人開始做一些放炸彈,隨機殺人,開車隨機撞人,或者是開始有不少人會自殺或去殺別人,社會秩序就會走向崩潰一途
2009-06-11 @ 00:32
迴響 from: 比爾傅 [訪問者]
只許州官放火,不許百姓點燈
http://big5.minghui.org/mh/articles/2006/11/23/142906.html
艾艾....
2009-06-11 @ 00:42
迴響 from: 104奴才銀行 [訪問者]
早看他們不爽了
是要台灣變成跟日本一樣的派遣工作
然後造成一堆社會問題嗎
你就是在賺錢
不要打高空說口號
楊先生 你這樣直接影響了多少人啊
天會收你的我告訴你

還有上新聞哇哇哇的女經理
這樣的錢你也賺
這種話你也說的出口
你在找奴才是不是
2009-06-11 @ 00:42
迴響 from: FBIMAN [訪問者] · http://fbinews.pixnet.net/blog
<一>
昨天上午,我接到104打電話來,不過我在忙就不回應這位小姐。

<二>
幾年前本人成立公司時,104就很神通廣大,「不知道哪裡弄來我的手機號碼」,照理說成立公司時所有的資料都是「政府單位」才有,沒有道理一家「民間私人公司」能夠取得,除非~~~~~~!!!


<三>
楊基寬這個台灣人,要叫「臺灣人不領錢上班」,其實只不過是「抄襲中國大陸」的社會情況而已。(2006年開始就有)

以下補充:
(百度搜尋)


(1)争鸣:大学生零工资就业-搜狐新闻
   http://news.sohu.com/s2006/nopay/

<大學生零工資就業 是求職還是乞職>

[编者按]继大学生就业出现“800元最低工资”之后,近来又出现“零工资就业”。一些大学生四处求职碰壁,情急之下提出工作后半年或一年内不要工资。一份关于“2006大学生就业力调查”的报告显示,目前“零工资就业”的人已占被调查者的0.8%左右。这一现象已经引起了各方面的关注。


(2)上海大学生凌晨排队求职 愿意接受“零工资” 2008年12月14日
   http://news.sohu.com/20081214/n261196644.shtml


  昨日早晨,东华大学体育馆外,参加招聘会的大学生排起长队等候。早报记者 鲁海涛 图

  为了找工作,昨日(13日)清晨不到6时,天刚微微亮,许多大学毕业生就提前近3小时排起了长队。

  这场由上海外服联合上海西南片区5所高校(上海交通大学、华东理工大学、华东师范大学、华东政法大学、东华大学)共同举办的“名校名企优才”联合招聘会,昨日上午8时30分在东华大学体育馆举行。与以往相比,这次招聘会出现招聘总量有一定程度减少、文科类岗位减少、外企和大型国企用人数量减少等三大现象。


  昨日清晨5时50分,华东理工大学的4名上海女生就匆匆赶到东华大学体育馆,开始排队等候上午8时30分开始的招聘会。排在队伍第一个的学生小王说:“早来只为寻找更多的机会。我是上海本地人,如果有合适的,可以去郊区、去外地。”

  到上午11时许,体育馆门口的求职队伍仍然很长,一名大学生说,他们已经排了两个半小时的队。一旁的工作人员解释说:“大约每隔10分钟放入300人左右,以控制招聘会场馆内的人员数量。”

  当日参加应聘的学生来自全国各地,共有数万人,其中,仅交大、华东理工、华东师大、华东政法、东华大学的本科生和研究生就有3万多人。

  就业三大现象

  1. 外企和大型国企招聘数减少

  2009年沪上高校毕业生比今年增加9000人,突破15万人大关,又遇到全球金融危机,就业形势雪上加霜。

  据上海外服招聘派遣部有关负责人介绍,作为此前大学生就业的热门去向,这次招聘会上,不管是外资单位或大型国企的数量,还是用人单位的总数,都比之去年略有减少。

  一些大学生也主动放低身段,对薪水没有太高的要求,还有人愿意“零工资”就业。“先有一份工作再说吧,只要能满足基本的生活就可以了。”西北政法学院的学生李连军说。

  2. 小企“逢低吸纳”储备人才

  不过,现场也有不少企业利用大学生薪酬预期有所降低的机会,“逢低吸纳”优秀毕业生,准备“过冬迎春”。

  特别是一些中小型高科技企业,包括IT、咨询、物流等纷纷加大了招聘力度,许多公司打出旗号:“我们欢迎大学毕业生!”这些企业都收到了数千份简历,比往年增长了几十倍。

  3. 工科类工作比文科类受宠

  从这次招聘会的需求岗位来看,工科类需求比较多,文科类或外企办事处职员等岗位的招聘需求,较往年有较为明显的减少。

  华东政法大学的一位研究生已经参加了几场招聘会,发现今年文科生的岗位特别少,她说:“做什么都行,以后再找符合专业的发展机会。”

  东华大学就业指导中心负责人说,先就业后择业,这样的求职理念正被越来越多的大学生所接受。

  求职现场

  北大学子找工作 胸挂“求职”纸牌

  昨日上午,在上海体育馆举办的“中高级人才招聘会”现场,一位自称北大毕业生的求职者在胸前挂着“求职”的大牌子找工作,引起关注。

  这场“中高级人才招聘会”要求应聘者必须有本科以上学历、中级以上职称,或者有特殊才能,但刚开门就有成千上万的人挤进来。

  “10时许,我看见一个人胸前挂着一块用纸盒做成的大牌子,上面用毛笔字写着"求职"两个大字,和他同行的有五六个人。”求职者刘先生说,这些人还散发传单、作演讲。

  “挂牌”求职的学生在演讲中说,他是北京大学的毕业生,已经在广州、江苏等地工作了10年,受这次金融风暴的影响,他也失业了。他与五六位境况类似的网友,一边在各地找工作,一边激励那些眼下艰难求职的人们。(储静伟) (来源:东方早报)
(责任编辑:黄芳)

2009-06-11 @ 01:22
迴響 from: lol [訪問者]
潛水好久,我應該是和各位站在反對面。

個人淺見:朱大和羊雞的基礎假設不同,
朱大說:"等到景氣回春之後再回來投入就業市場,很合理呀"-->個人認為這假設不成立。

我比較相信景氣回來的速度沒有想像快,但是先卡位先拿,
景氣是L型,沒有V 也沒有W反彈。
我相信台灣的失業率最少5%,再也不會降。
2009-06-11 @ 02:32
迴響 from: lol [訪問者]
不少人是"問題導向",唸書時不覺財務報表,統計分析,總經,財務工程,分析與找資料的功夫,SA的功夫,TSE(Test fo Spoken Eng.),System Scalability,Linux,algorithm很重要,很重要,進入職場才知道這會死人的,Yahxx Taiwan的徵人考試考了不少algorithm。

進了職場(戰場)後,你就知道你站的位置,你的進攻方向,
還缺哪些武器,再進研究所唸,整個感覺完全不一樣。

為了做該死的競圖簡報,建築師竟然還叫大家弄到 3AM,反覆的rehearsal又改稿。
你沒待過,你怎知PowerPoint的主題安排與簡報時間控制,
還有事先題庫準備,事關事務所生死。

你會說建築師虐待勞工,那你怎不說你也在考建築師,
有天考上了你覺得你比老闆多多少勝算呢?
信不信,你會想我當老闆還是得撐到4AM。


我們不是奴隸,而是現在的老闆跟奴隸一樣工作,
透過參與商業活動才瞭解,老闆甘苦,
我可以解決他的困難,我就有機會比同年齡的人學到更多,
甚至預測下一波如何,提早去研究所取經:

我的基礎假設如下:

放寬陸配就業,不會排擠到本國勞工的工作權
http://dailynews.sina.com/bg/tw/twchn/bcc/20090422/2121175368.html

移民署:大陸商務人士來台 放寬停留至1個月
至於專業人士來台,除已開放的19類專業類別外,再增加大陸地區優秀專業技術人士類。
營業額新台幣3000萬元以下本國企業,從每年邀請15人次,放寬為45人次;3000萬元以上的企業,則從每年邀請50人次來訪,放寬為200人次。
http://www.cna.com.tw/ShowNews/Detail.aspx?pSearchDate=&pNewsID=200906060222&pType0=IPL&pType1=PD&pTypeSel=0

那你有沒想過我們的科技公司希望發H1B三年工作簽證給大陸白領呢?
就好像美國發H1B三年工作簽證給印度軟體工程師可以大幅降低薪資成本呢?
http://www.csa-scad.net/www/forum/index.php?topic=2553.0
http://newsbig5.chinesewings.com/cgi-bin/site/j.cgi?id=20081210122444643

一名在愛知縣經營人力派遣公司的五十歲社長表示,在這波不景氣之前,正因為有人力派遣制度,才讓那些有意到海外設廠的製造商留在國內。厚勞省的統計指出,日本2007年的派遣人員約三百八十四萬人,是五年前的一.八倍,九年前的四倍以上,由此可見日本企業對於派遣人員的依賴程度。
http://www.epochtimes.com/b5/9/2/8/n2421807.htm

派遣大多各有專長,從總機、秘書、電腦工程師,甚至醫生都用派遣。如今非正式社員已高達三成,某些行業甚至達八成,已是日本經濟的一大支柱。
http://www.coolloud.org.tw/node/12361


東京的日比穀公園裏就出現了一個「過年派遣村」在那裏聚集了500名無家可歸的人,於是,過年派遣村就在那裏支起帳篷,分發毛毯
http://blog.ifeng.com/article/2027695.html

日本媒體引述加籐的網路留言內容指出:「過去八年來,我的生命是一連串的失敗。」
http://www.coolloud.org.tw/node/22294

馬凱:台灣最壞的狀況是,最快年底前,通膨率可能達到兩位數,就是一○%
http://money.udn.com/wealth/storypage.jsp?f_MAIN_ID=324&f_SUB_ID=3394&f_ART_ID=187027

幾個假設性問題:
1,你是出生在夏威夷的美國人,28歲的你留在夏威夷就是跳草裙舞,
恰巧你念理工科的,你會不會去美國西岸唸書定居找工作,到老才回夏威夷呢?

2,反過來問這個問題,假如20年後,你的小孩參加聯合高考,
考上台大電機、北京師範大學數學系
你要他念哪個系?他說北京師範大學數學系,你說台大電機比較好啦,
他說台大電機和廈門大學電機系哪裡不一樣都是那個省最好的大學而已啊?
可是北京師範大學我可以認識各個省縣市的教育局長啊,會比較有前途。

3,換句話說,那個不孝子一定去北京唸書,一方面可以離家找新泡友,
一方面,他根本不會想買台灣的房子,因為他被四川、上海、北京、湖南的
小妖精給騙了,一方面,國際工作那麼多,誰還回台北啊?

想到台北的女生認為桃園以南都是鄉巴佬,
沒想到到了北京,連上海人也算鄉巴佬。

當你想到日月潭擠滿大陸客,而你有點想去大陸求發展,

想降低薪水跟大陸人競爭,你難道不覺得,這趨勢是無法逆轉的嗎?

趕快,有把握念研究所後可以加薪的,快去念,

這很像漫畫聖堂教父第一集,兩個高中同學丟銅板決定誰去混黑社會、

誰去念東大當國會議員。


2009-06-11 @ 02:35
迴響 from: EKTIEN [訪問者]
*****
這篇考據太詳細了
希望朱大這篇可以鼓勵更多人可以寫這種文章

很多人講話都沒頭沒尾
今天講了 明天到別的場合又講不一樣的
該叫偽君子還是記性不好呢....
2009-06-11 @ 03:11
迴響 from: 5566 [訪問者]
乾脆警察也派遣..老師也派遣..公務員也派遣.軍人也派遣..總統也派遣.台灣所有行業通通派遣..一律由基基E04統一經手包辦..抽佣抽的不亦樂乎..
2009-06-11 @ 03:26
迴響 from: Blue [訪問者]
*****
酷斃啦!
我原本以為無恥這種事情要看政壇比較多
現在看起來商場演繹起來毫不遜色嘛
2009-06-11 @ 07:40
迴響 from: james [訪問者]
用義工的心態服務貢獻以營利為目的的企業體,這樣的邏輯觀念應該違背倫常吧!
2009-06-11 @ 07:42
迴響 from: 怪人 [訪問者] · http://www.123.com
*****
不知道為什麼我看到照片上的嘴臉就有點想揍人!
連XX娘我都想直接對著他罵!

另外,不景氣中,有多少家庭生活拮据,學生沒畢業就負債了,
更何況現在一堆學生根本就是這群"大人"的實驗品,當作玩具一樣玩,
就算真的有上進的年輕人,早也被玩到變成垃圾了...

因為選擇繼續唸書的就是懦夫,
那你他媽的用這些言詞來殘害這些年輕人不就是個畜生!?

這些被當成實驗品的年輕人,就很欠你這個完全不相識的人說成懦夫!?
那我到想要問什麼才是英雄!?
身上一毛錢都沒有,還要作免錢工,
還必須幻想作免錢工有了一番事業才有薪水領,
那人早就餓死了!!!

那這樣乾脆畢業就去犯罪抓去關,起碼還有免錢飯可以吃!!!犯人都活的比這些年輕人還要爽!!!

選擇繼續讀書升學就是懦夫,我呸!
嘴巴說別人懦夫的傢伙,比懦夫還不如!!!
2009-06-11 @ 07:51
迴響 from: 傑森 [訪問者]
to: 雨蒼
***引用開始***
朱大的文章和觀點小弟一直很認同,也覺得很棒。但是一路看下來,小弟總覺得,朱大似乎總圍繞著時事打轉。比如針對MUST,針對奴隸銀行,針對死刑等問題。朱大似乎總是追著時事打,能反;但是立呢?似乎沒有提出來。
柏楊有本書叫做"醜陋的中國人",小弟一直以來都很推崇;他除了指出問題所在,他還直指問題核心:中國的醬缸文化,中國人愛面子,愛表面工夫.....等等。小弟個人也另外認為,中國傳統教育著重服從,而非獨立思考,這種人云亦云的人們正是台灣目前各種亂象與社會現象最大的問題所在。指出了問題核心,說出了問題所在,大家也才能知道改進的方向。
小弟在這邊建議朱大,在討論這些問題的同時,不要總針對著楊清基先生作文章。這樣文章寫下去,總是讓人感覺有些對人不對事。而且,您打了一個楊先生,還有有名的吳先生,還有千千萬萬為資方出頭的人.....朱大應該針對這種"社會現象"(除了右傾思想外,還有人權婦女團體橫行,各種社會亂象.....)以及"社會價值"提出一個完整的解釋,完整的立論,然後建議大家往後如何從身邊做起.....小弟認為,這樣完整的觀點和論點,將比朱大目前的各種文章,更有價值,也更能讓大家從自己的身邊開始一步一步改變社會。

(Lucifer:楊清基是誰?)

*****引用結束*****

為什麼要求朱宅門要建立"完整的觀點和論點"呢?朱宅門表面上的工作也不過是個翻譯者以及基金會負責人,其實他真正的身分只是個有想法的超弩級(指外觀及噸位)阿宅。要這樣的人去治國平天下?李遠哲以及阿桐伯的殷鑒不遠,這樣的人還嫌不夠嗎?

不能因為有名氣就要朱宅門去搞個三不朽。說真的,每天愛老婆打電動的阿宅能夠針貶時事以及提出一針見血的好看法已經很難得了(汗)。要是哪天朱宅門真的自我膨脹到自以為可以當"社會價值"的代言人的話,我第一個離開這個部落格,永不回來。

(Lucifer:離開前記得送我幾張A片~~~
2009-06-11 @ 07:58
迴響 from: windlove [訪問者]
我贊成朱大的原因很簡單,台灣的老闆很多人是喜歡用免錢的,仁義道德對他們來說都是屁,真的以為先不拿薪水幫工作做事,到時候老闆會良心發現來請你嗎?我只能說你瘋了...等到你真的想跟他拿錢就是你要走路的時候~~
如果真的想累積工作經驗,還不如去接小案子,至少都還有錢勒....
2009-06-11 @ 08:31
迴響 from: Peggy [訪問者]
***--
>薪資結構是用正常的管道查不出來的
>比如你領兩萬五,下次換工作時,你可以說你領三萬

請恕我不贊同,這跟欺騙有啥兩樣?
你可以說你加了津貼之後的價錢,但不要浮報
難不成每次徵人的時候開天價的那些勇者都是被這招給教壞的?
其實,打聽好該職缺的行情價就好,人家要你報價,你就報個行情價,不要高抬
高抬並不會讓人覺得「喔,這個人一定很能幹」
別傻了,資方要的是態度誠懇耐操又不貴的
跟你買東西要貨比三家一樣
現在隨便一份工作開缺一天就幾十個上百個應徵信來,資方還怕沒得挑?
(我不是幫資方講話,是遇過太多沒能力又自視甚高的小白了)
再者,你以為查不到實際薪資
但事實上業界很小,打聽一下人家難道不知道你之前那個位置領的是多少?
人家搞不好甚至比你還清楚你前一間公司的營運跟資金狀況呢!
業界的狀態,內行人比一個剛入行的人懂多了,不用問也知道你大概領多少
現在的電子履歷,還常常要留推薦人資料
打個電話過去,多少也能打聽到你一點什麼
以為人家好騙,只會讓人直接把你刷掉
就算錄取了,人家願意多給你點錢,相對的也會多些期待
不符期待的,我看過做一天就被開除的
應該沒人想頂著才做一天就被開除的污名吧?
我知道現在很多人履歷亂寫,以為人家不知道
但其實工作幾年、應徵過人,心裡就有底了
資方要的是「在這個位置做得來的人」,不是請一個劍橋留學生來端盤子
履歷寫得光鮮,並不一定比較吃香
搞清楚需要你的地方,老老實實去行銷自己,才做得久長
2009-06-11 @ 09:10
迴響 from: bill1712 [訪問者] · http://blog.udn.com/bill1712
我昨天把這件事跟我的外國朋友分享,我覺得他提出了一個很大的重點:所謂不給錢也值得作的工作,是什麼內容?且這個內容應該是由資方來定義而不是這位員工一廂情願的認定。

資方至少要定義幾件事:
1.無薪,是要無薪多久?3天、3個月、3年、還是不知道?

2.這個值得作的工作是多值得?升遷管道、未來訓練、未來薪資等,還是只是純粹的榨取,也說不出所以然?

死阿斗載果然是資本主義下的腐敗人士,說的真好。

如果資方自己說不出無薪時間、工作未來性,自己都證明不了這好工作有多重要多值得,畢業學生是怎麼去認定「如果是個好工作、無薪也要做」?用信心?用猜股票點數的豪氣?還是用自己的青春賭一把?

也許有些傻子想這樣可以換得工作經驗啦,也就是傻子們以為屁股黏久點就算經驗,媽的隨便問問工作過幾年的人,看工作經驗是這麼看的嗎?

還有阿,從埃及帝國至今長達6千年的歷史,有沒有出現過哪一個工作這麼沒有取代性,是什麼工作?在哪裡?非要用無薪去搶?所有「沒錢也要做的好工作」這裡不給錢、那裏卻給,未來性完全相同為何要選無薪的?是因為自己的價值爛到0?媽的你自己這麼作賤自己?

以104自己的無薪徵才為例好了,作統計分析報表實習生,這算是什麼「有未來性的好工作、不給錢也要去的好工作?」,敝公司也有部門是作統計分析市場研究的,我可不認為有這樣的一個經驗可以提昇錄取率。

應該沒多久就會有自以為獨樹一格的傻子來發反對聲音了,先看看自己的論點能不能通過這些基本定義的檢視吧~~~
2009-06-11 @ 09:10
迴響 from: lin6p [訪問者]
個人有幾點補充
1.現在剛考到律師執照的人,已經有光作事不領薪的情形開始發生(聽說越往北部越嚴重),理由真的是因為感謝律師事務所給他實習的機會。而且就算過了實習期,起薪也高不到那裡,所以已經不算是"三師"之一了!
2.104本身也開了人力派遣的業務,他們和其他派遣公司之間,既是合作也是競爭關係。所以104是在幫助社會新鮮人嗎?!就我個人感覺,不是!!他們也是屬於剝削勞工的一群!!
2009-06-11 @ 09:21
迴響 from: 乾 [訪問者]
附加說明
上面那一招當然是用在你比薪資水平低太多的時後用
如果你才25歲,你跟人家唬爛說你領四萬
我只能說你直接去吃屎算了
***********************
研究機構除國科會外一般碩士的起新就是4萬,
24歲碩士畢業進研究機構拿4萬並不虎爛。
中國的平均薪水雖低,但是人家給中高階層的薪水可是很敢給。相較之下,台灣奴隸主把人才全部當成庸才跟奴才,難怪在國際市場節節敗給中國的企業。
2009-06-11 @ 09:49
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/baabuu
*****
***
閱畢~~

====
值星官咧?
2009-06-11 @ 09:54
迴響 from: calvino [訪問者]
雖然我目前沒有就業上的困擾,我還是忍不住要說如果真的這樣搞,只會寵壞企業主。今天用免錢的用兩個月,不好用就叫他回去,再叫新的來,反正也是免錢,就一直輪著用。這樣只會讓勞工在就業市場上變得更廉價,此風萬萬不可長ㄛ
看到這種新聞真的覺得很心酸。
2009-06-11 @ 10:02
迴響 from: ponda [訪問者]
可以只推吳怡霈嗎XD
2009-06-11 @ 10:06
迴響 from: chiz [訪問者]
"朱大應該針對這種"社會現象"(除了右傾思想外,還有人權婦女團體橫行,各種社會亂象.....)以及"社會價值"提出一個完整的解釋,完整的立論,然後建議大家往後如何從身邊做起....."
真好笑,朱大是欠你的喔, 還完整的解釋立論咧, 這部落格朱大是自發性來論述的吧,竟然還有人來說朱大應該怎樣怎樣寫, 要叫朱大寫,怎麼你自己不出來寫?? 出一張嘴的人太多,要講還輪不到這位仁兄吧,這世道真的變了......
2009-06-11 @ 10:08
迴響 from: 老宅男 [訪問者]
>朱宅門表面上的工作也不過是個翻譯者以及基金會負責人....(後省略)

這話如果是朱大一向存在心裡的中心思想,是非常讚的。但出於不請自來的潛水騷客,則顯心胸狹窄容不得能人出錯一般,以目前朱大的表現來說,何必去預設將來的造化呢?

我會支持朱大繼續用功的。
2009-06-11 @ 10:31
迴響 from: HH [訪問者]
不支薪這種想法很怪,念了那麼多年書該出去賺錢回饋父母了,卻因為找不到工作去做白工然後還是跟父母拿錢這樣? 隨便找個打工薪水低點也好過不支薪...一直給父母養才是懦夫吧?

關於上面有人提到換工作就浮報自己薪資的作法,雖然我不認同但是我還是這樣做XD,最簡單的理由是如果你實報薪資,那新的工作只大概會"持平"給你上一份工作的薪水,然後美其名說你表現好或是過了試用期會加薪之類,以現階段環境來說加薪是種奢求,很多時候主管都會"不小心"忘記,與其換了新工作又還是拿一樣的薪水不如虛報一些,明明自己的年資跟經驗都有成長那我為何只能拿一樣的薪水?當然會這樣做也有些不得已,如果你能找到大公司能夠配股票能夠分紅的話或許也不會在意這一點點薪資,但是現實是大部分的狀況下你只有這一份薪資還沒有加班費。
當然,應徵者可以提出自己想要的薪水(不寫想要的薪資只會被凹而已),不過你如果實報我上一份只有四萬換這工作我想要五萬跟虛報到四萬五我想要五萬會不會有落差呢?我覺得沒有落差畢竟我要的是五萬跟我之前拿多少沒有差別,但是面試的時候真的會比較好談...如此而已。
2009-06-11 @ 11:02
迴響 from: 伊凡斯 [訪問者]
府兵制至少給你一塊田可以種田養活自己,楊老闆是叫你自己備田去當府兵哩

比府兵制不如阿
2009-06-11 @ 11:11
迴響 from: 鹽巴吃太多 [訪問者]
看完之後只能說
您真的是鹽巴吃太多呀

Lucifer:孩子,你媽沒教你嗎?發幾篇不同留言要換IP呀!這樣才能營造眾人聲討的氣氛呀! 114.32.68.41 這個下次換一個了好嗎?


有沒有這麼巧,上次這個IP是104人力銀行在別的網站留言呀!劉小姐!

2009-06-11 @ 11:16
迴響 from: 鹽巴吃太多 [訪問者]
套一句包龍星包大人說過的話
"誰答腔就說誰"
當然您聽到這句話會氣的牙癢癢囉
社會上成功人士那麼多
沒內涵的倒是第一次看到
還是說.講白了其實您也只是個投機份子
翻了本魔戒賺那麼多就爽到現在
聽說尊夫人懷孕了是吧
替您的孩子留點口得吧

Lucifer:孩子,你媽沒教你嗎?發幾篇不同留言要換IP呀!這樣才能營造眾人聲討的氣氛呀! 114.32.68.41 這個下次換一個了好嗎?


有沒有這麼巧,上次這個IP是104人力銀行在別的網站留言呀!劉小姐!

2009-06-11 @ 11:31
迴響 from: 黑色娑羅雙樹 [訪問者]
其實,我想了一想
不支薪找工作的這個想法對一個中老年失業的人來說
其實還是有幫助
因為中老年失了業,可是身上的確有能力,有經驗
因為不景氣沒辦法找到工作
你又沒本錢創業
那麼這個勇者策略的確可能讓你二度就業
因為你有足夠的能力,的確有可能為公司帶來改變

但是若是對一個應屆生來說
你什麼實務經驗都沒有
不支薪進去學,人家還不肯教咧
更何況還妄想會拿的出什麼貢現

2009-06-11 @ 11:33
迴響 from: 下大雨... [訪問者]
*----
朱大雖然也不削鐵支銀行
但還跑去幫他們演講
看起來朱大也是鐵支的打手
難怪一直挑楊董的語病
朱大應該可以和吳先生合開節目
鐵支打手2人組

(Lucifer:下次要不要換IP啦,多留幾篇言嘛! IP位置: 114.32.68.41 說什麼恐嚇哩不要輕易放棄喔!還真以為我不知道你哪位喔?呿呿。



有沒有這麼巧,上次這個IP是104人力銀行在別的網站留言呀!劉小姐!

2009-06-11 @ 11:34
迴響 from: 悄悄話.... [訪問者]
*----
鹽巴先生也不用幫朱大小孩想這麼多
朱大等一下就斷章取義說你恐嚇
然後較一堆朱迷罵死你
朱大就是屌...
什麼話都敢講
反正他時間多
跟朱大鬥
他就在blog發表文章
找一堆恐龍殺死你
那些支持者還不是沒拿錢幫他當打手
我怎麼沒看到朱大給他們薪水
或是我們來這邊幫他灌流量
應該給我們薪水

(Lucifer:下次要不要換IP啦,多留幾篇言嘛! IP位置: 114.32.68.41 說什麼恐嚇哩不要輕易放棄喔!還真以為我不知道你哪位喔?呿呿。



有沒有這麼巧,上次這個IP是104人力銀行在別的網站留言呀!劉小姐!

2009-06-11 @ 11:40
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
鹽巴先生在說啥?
我怎麼看不太懂?

然後下大雨好像搞錯了,他不是幫鐵支演講,
不過我看你也懶得查證,所以我也懶得說了...XD
2009-06-11 @ 12:02
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
迴響 from: 黑色娑羅雙樹 [訪問者]
其實,我想了一想
不支薪找工作的這個想法對一個中老年失業的人來說
其實還是有幫助
因為中老年失了業,可是身上的確有能力,有經驗
因為不景氣沒辦法找到工作
你又沒本錢創業
那麼這個勇者策略的確可能讓你二度就業
因為你有足夠的能力,的確有可能為公司帶來改變
=========================================

  小本生意五十萬內含店面租金可以起家,不算多。
  不是一人飽全家飽的年紀不支薪是不適用的。
2009-06-11 @ 12:09
迴響 from: UNDER [訪問者]
http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/090610/8/1l0aa.html

關於上篇國小老師的報導

文末我看到一個有趣的地方...

名作家朱學恆 名作家朱學恆 名作家朱學恆

朱大也是名作家了耶!!!! 狂賀阿~~~

不過仔細一看 他說的是朱學恆

朱大其實是叫朱學恒對吧 看來是誤會一場阿....

中出達人朱學恒 =\= 名作家朱學恆

請不要搞錯喔~~

好拉 我承認我太無聊 開開玩笑 各位大大叔別跟我認真阿....

2009-06-11 @ 12:29
迴響 from: bearlex [訪問者]
留言要記得改唉批啊,行員....
2009-06-11 @ 12:57
迴響 from: 異形 [訪問者] Email
反串廚自重!
2009-06-11 @ 13:00
迴響 from: jackbase [訪問者] Email
辛苦了朱大的蒐證, 實在不覺得他創業是為了什麼社會公益...
2009-06-11 @ 13:00
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
為什麼會有人覺得上班不領薪水是可以接受的?是因為他們不缺錢嗎?不缺錢的話就去當義工好了,不要跟我們搶工作了好嗎?

我每個月那些狗屎倒灶的帳單、就學貸款、房貸,隨便算一算就要兩萬,不支薪我連一個月都撐不下去,請那些覺得自己可以接受不支薪的人不要以為全台灣每個人都辦的到!中年的人他所背負的只會是更大的責任(全家人)!
2009-06-11 @ 13:06
迴響 from: Jerry2000 [訪問者]
*****
這一篇寫的太好了

我是五年級生
看到這些狗屁企業主鬼扯 有時真的受不了

就好像每年領兩億多的白髮張掌門 昨天也終於道歉說公司管不好 之前逼退員工處理不好 也不好好說到底公司這些中高階主管到底怎樣管理公司的

畢業生找不到工作繼續進修絕對不是懦夫

是懦夫的是當初企業主趁政府補助就業時拼命向大學生招手一編領政府補貼一編壓低學生薪水的企業
2009-06-11 @ 13:10
迴響 from: 絕望 [訪問者]
*****
我覺得臺灣人需要趕快進化,至少要進化到可以進行光合作用。(所以需要大量生科人才去研究)

到時做免費義工時就不用公司提供你吃住也可以自行進行光合作用來獲取能量。

當台灣人人都會光合作用了,不但替老闆省了人事資本,還不用怕世界糧食危機,真是一舉兩得(應該不只兩得,還會有許多好處,不過在此恕不贅述)。

所以在此呼籲生科學家快研發出可讓人類光合作用的技術,不然就祈禱台灣人快進化到可以進行光合作用吧= ="
2009-06-11 @ 13:10
迴響 from: 異形 [訪問者] Email
也不要忘記有許多學生一畢業就要背負數十萬的就學貸款(還有利息)
2009-06-11 @ 13:12
迴響 from: 廚獅WEI [訪問者]
*****
怪?楊董的創業過程怎麼有那麼多種版本?
104做出名號來,並不代表創辦人講的話就是全都可信,一切都只是參考而已

一個企業剛開始,就得要捧客戶的LP才能生存,成為企業後,更要捧緊客戶LP+G腿才能持續存在
所以他的立場是永遠為客戶著想,而所有的使用者就是如同一根根火柴棒。
燃燒自己,照亮他們!
2009-06-11 @ 13:13
迴響 from: manlife [訪問者]
*----
朱恐龍~
avast的防毒掃到惡意網站
不知是不是誤判@@
↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
www.i3721.com.gz/UploadFiles_GZ/200606/20066681620214.jpg
↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

(LUCIFER:那是我不知道盜連了哪張圖啦,沒事滴~~~
2009-06-11 @ 13:20
迴響 from: 扭曲的社會 [訪問者]
>不然就祈禱台灣人快進化到可以進行光合作用吧
不行阿
光是這樣還不夠

這樣對個人來說
雖然省下伙食費
但是還有水電費/手機費/房貸/網路費....
假如有小孩的
還需要各種教育費用
這些還是要錢吶
沒錢怎麼生活...

2009-06-11 @ 13:25
迴響 from: 雨蒼 [訪問者] Email · http://billy3321.blogspot.com
*****
囧> 小弟誤將 楊基寬 寫為 楊清基 了,看來最近腦袋真的怪怪。在此跟大家致歉<(_ _)>

小弟個人還是認為,也希望朱大在針砭時事的同時,可以"立"一些東西,一些想法......目前看起來這邊累積了不少人氣與能量,但總是圍繞著一些議題在批評打轉,總是少了一些什麼。希望朱大能提出一些思考的方向,以及重點;而非單純批評與反對。

感謝大家閱讀。
2009-06-11 @ 13:26
迴響 from: Vergil [訪問者] · http://www.washivaca.blogspot.com
揚董: 口桀 口桀 口桀~ 这裡有一票新鲜的肝好红好便宜啊!
2009-06-11 @ 13:41
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
***--
偶爾當一次懦夫還好啦
我剛退伍也是怕找工作,先去學開車啦
後來又去上課啦
後來終於有點自信去找工作啦
然後就找到工作啦

一定要用很多【後來】【然後】當發語詞,年輕人都這樣講話的) → 這樣才會顯得很年輕

這叫戰略性轉進,懂吧(得意)

不過如果半年後要找工作了,身邊手上還是這麼一千零一樣本事,那就真的是逃亡的懦夫了 →表示你根本沒有利用時間充實自我


我是面試官我它媽也不會用這種人~
2009-06-11 @ 13:50
迴響 from: 學姊 [訪問者]
最討厭躲在不同名稱後面演多口相聲的人, 以為沒人知道就可以幹缺德事. 厚~拜託!! 不知道IP會被記錄喔? 跑到別人家撒野, 下次不要忘了帶上奪命書生跟春樹秋霜圖, 小李飛刀他娘會好好招待你的.

這是自由社會, 這是人家自己的版, 愛講什麼就講什麼, 又沒犯法, 你不高興就不要看呀!! 從來也沒有不能留言發表不同的聲音, 什麼時候來這逛的都變成了粉絲, 同意版主論點的都變了不支薪的打手?!

e04的客服這樣問候人家老婆小孩很沒品耶!! 原來這就是e04客服的工作喔(拍額)? 也難怪, 勞方總是低聲下氣希望貴公司給個機會, 哪個求職者有熊心豹子膽"客訴"?! 所以只好委屈閒的發慌客服損陰德囉! 唉, 景氣不好, 工作真不好做呀!!

吵什麼呀, 三更半夜不怕吵到鄰居睡覺嗎? 有沒有公德心呀? 人家明天還要上班呢! 滾開!!
2009-06-11 @ 13:56
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
***--
誰派來的?
幹人力銀行派來的!

在下常昆~
原來是月黑風高殺人夜...
2009-06-11 @ 14:00
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
***--
我又很厚顏無恥的來廣告一下自己blog舊文

http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!A930EEE579EAA1B7!954.entry

希望正在努力找工作的各位阿宅們,放下鳳梨遊戲,踏出去吧~
2009-06-11 @ 14:02
迴響 from: 野貓 [訪問者]
↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓
www.i3721.com.gz/UploadFiles_GZ/200606/20066681620214.jpg
↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑↑

(LUCIFER:那是我不知道盜連了哪張圖啦,沒事滴~~~)

也有可能是假裝是圖的木馬,要小心唷
2009-06-11 @ 14:02
迴響 from: taddy [訪問者] · http://taddyfly.blogspot.com
以前上的WBSA(國際商務規劃師)
現在也要推出企劃人才網了...
又要多一間人力銀行XD..而且刊登履歷就要收費
2009-06-11 @ 14:05
迴響 from: 5566 [訪問者]
正常底下義工是不會這麼無聊..應該是奴隸頭子生氣了..-(=.=)/..這位義工應該最近得到各大網站澄清..工作量應該是突然大增不少..
2009-06-11 @ 14:07
迴響 from: 連睡三天 [訪問者]
*****
朱豪宅說得很好,奴隸銀行應該大大方方的說:"我們是企葉,賺錢最重要"。
不要還想披著社會公益的面紗。
這個時代笑貧不笑娼,你婊子當的好好的,我們也不理你。居然還想立貞潔牌坊,這就有點過分了。
現在他們努力引進的派遣制度,其實已經在日本造成很大的社會問題。說實在的,引進之初,他們會不知道嗎?我想不可能吧,只是賺錢最重要罷了。
2009-06-11 @ 14:09
迴響 from: 宅爸 [訪問者]
***--
劉小姐被起底了
E04的MIS要打屁股
2009-06-11 @ 14:16
迴響 from: 關於114.32.68.41這個IP [訪問者]
114.32.68.41這個IP應該是e04人資客服部的員工所共用的。
因此只能知道上列以114.32.68.41留言的人,
是來自e04人資客服部,並不能確定究竟是誰。
2009-06-11 @ 14:21
迴響 from: 豬排叔叔 [訪問者]
這些損害自己公司名譽的傢伙,知道他們是誰的人們啊
以後開公司、或是要徵人時遇到他們請慎重考慮
他們會在網路上,媒體上意氣用事丟公司的臉

當勞力沒有價值的時候,苦的是受薪階級啊!

大家都沒錢賺,全都給楊先生這樣有壓榨勞力傾向的老闆賺走了,社會財富過於集中,不是會有錢荒就是通貨膨脹壓力更恐怖。他們錢就算貶值,還是比你多。

為甚麼,靠勞力起家的董事長,如今把勞力的價值貶到價值是零元?因為他們服務的,不是勞方,而是資方,物化勞方,那為什麼我們勞工不能覺醒,集結尋求出路?反正大家都是社會人了,就讓這些人切身體會社會人要對自己講過的話負責,看要聯合抵制還是啥的都可以。

為什麼,創造人力銀行價值的董事長,要幫忙消滅人力的價值?因為你們勞方有沒有賺到錢根本不關他的事!

勞方啊!覺醒吧!
2009-06-11 @ 14:25
迴響 from: Stan [訪問者]
我要舉手發問一下,104人資客服的人員有沒領薪水啊?從他們的發言看起來大家都喝空氣過活就夠了啊,應該不需要領錢吧?
2009-06-11 @ 15:25
迴響 from: chiz [訪問者]
朱大是怎麼找出那個鹽巴的啊??
2009-06-11 @ 15:26
迴響 from: KeNnY [訪問者]
104提共一平台幫助找工作很好阿
我現在的工作 也是104找的

企業老闆問題更大 剝削員工的主謀
2009-06-11 @ 15:30
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
其實是我入侵104客服,轉接了他們的114.32.68.41 IP,
然後自導自演自言自語的一段陰謀!

其實我姓楊...


















單名一個過字。
2009-06-11 @ 15:31
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
其實是我入侵104客服,轉接了他們的114.32.68.41 IP,
然後自導自演自言自語的一段陰謀!

其實我姓楊...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
單名一個過字。
2009-06-11 @ 15:32
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
! 我怎麼po了兩次!
這樣不就變成灌水了!!
2009-06-11 @ 15:33
迴響 from: chiz [訪問者]
有的人很奇怪
自己文章看不懂
就說別人只是單純的批評反對
還要樓主提出思考的方向重點
是怎樣
樓主欠你的??
簡直莫名其妙
給你一手好牌 你也不會使
回去練練再來好不好
2009-06-11 @ 15:44
迴響 from: 眼藥水28 [訪問者] · http://blog.roodo.com/collyrium_no28
宅心人厚你灌水(手指)

換位置換腦袋這件事
從我出來工作十年已經不知看幾次啦


勞工真是可憐啊...
2009-06-11 @ 15:55
迴響 from: 媽~ 我在這 [訪問者]
我有看到有人說 之前朱大自己跑去出版社翻魔戒行為 也是一種勇者策略 我覺得有點怪怪的 但又不能反駁 說不出怪在那 有人能告訴我怪在那嗎 

  我分享一下 我大學時讀的是社工相關科系,但我不是很確定自己的喜好,就利用空堂時間去社服機構當義工,去之前,機構也是要訪談我,問我為什要去,想學些什麼,當然我並有參與機構決策,但至少至知他們的工作項目內容,所需知識等,一學期後就知自己不適合,畢業後就沒有找相關的工作了~ 我不知這算不算勇者策略啦~~
如果重覆po文 請大刪除
2009-06-11 @ 16:29
迴響 from: Glass [訪問者] · http://home.gamer.com.tw/adolphho
*****
有個想法啦--
上面那些e04消毒員畢竟也在網路公司待的,沒道理不懂IP這回事(除非我高估了就沒輒)
該不會其實是裡面員工另類的偷婊行為? = = a
2009-06-11 @ 16:38
迴響 from: jasonpid [訪問者]
e04的人資客服哪知道啥IP,你沒看被朱宅捉包後就不敢出聲了嗎??
2009-06-11 @ 16:50
迴響 from: A [訪問者]
from: 黑色娑羅雙樹
> 其實,我想了一想
> 不支薪找工作的這個想法對一個中老年失業的人來說
> 其實還是有幫助

中年失業的人,通常還是家裡的經濟重擔,需要的就是錢,不支薪工作對他們來講是不實際的,
老年還需要賺錢養家的人,往往是社會上的邊緣人,不是做義工就能夠生活的~
2009-06-11 @ 17:14
迴響 from: 先不支薪混進去 [訪問者]
先不支薪混進去,再去另一家競爭對手應徵當SPY,這才叫勇者策略啊~~~
2009-06-11 @ 17:20
迴響 from: Colin Wen [訪問者]
小弟看了連續兩篇朱大的文章
其實很明顯的企業主 擺明就是要賺錢
不管他們賣得是什麼有形商品 服務 或是像104的人力行銷
不過懦不懦夫 小弟到是覺得見仁見智啦
每個人的計畫不同
打不過先裝死 在報仇的戲碼 也是很管用的

至於勇者策略要請年輕學子自己作
為何不請企業 在經濟現況不好的情形下
就主動徵求實習生 然後提供基本的費用(至少可以讓人餓不死 穿得暖)
然後來訓練這些未來可能成為其企業的優秀員工呢??
因為小弟的妹妹就是有到印度去做這種實習生
一方面是經濟風暴下 目前沒有找到理想的工作
一方面是去增廣見聞 並且學習一些大企業裡面的制度和工作經驗

如果真的要勇者策略 應該講給企業主聽
請他們花某個等級的薪水 來培養未來優秀的幹部及員工 或許也可以增加企業形象
這樣才能真的增加台灣的競爭力

不然總是看到企業主在剝削員工 但是自己花大錢買豪宅 名車....
2009-06-11 @ 17:30
迴響 from: universityaa [訪問者]
聽說尊夫人懷孕了是吧
替您的孩子留點口得吧
..............『德』
應該是用注音輸入法吧!
照此說法,如果沒有懷孕的『尊夫人』,
就可以不用留口德了。想來楊董應該
沒有懷孕的『尊夫人』!誰是楊董,
"誰答腔就說誰"
2009-06-11 @ 18:27
迴響 from: meso [訪問者]
楊基寬董事長
幻想在英國路上見到乞丐被好心的駕駛人移到路旁
擔心這個模擬的畫面
在他(或採訪技者)覺得文化水平與英國有落差的台灣
會變成大家開車繞過那個乞丐
於是發願成立一間為弱勢求職者謀福利的人力仲介公司
而且經營的還不錯,前兩年上市還造成轟動
不過名滿天下,謗亦隨之...
結果好心被當驢肝肺
現在被打到為資本家仲介壓榨虐待奴役求職者的管道
因為他沒有為求職者篩選提供的工作是否合理...
可他至少有好幾萬個工作機會看得到呀
這年頭好人難做呀!!


----------------------------------------

這讓我想起另一個發願的故事
這個故事是從去年七月數位時代第170期看到的
主角是一個在封面上站在大正妹張鈞甯後面的長頭髮大胖子
將近十年前他因為做了某件只不過的事
讓他瞬間變一個有錢的暴發戶
然後像散財童子一樣跑去坐頭等艙環遊世界
親身遇到有錢買頭等艙座位的醫生欺負女空服員的事
所以他也像楊基寬先生一樣想要改變弱勢者的處境
把莫名其妙賺來的錢拿去砸到開發開放式中文化課程
不過他沒有楊基寬董事長般懂得經營企業
還跟另一間科技公司的老闆結了樑子差點把開放式課程搞垮
聽說他最近錢燒得差不多了,小孩又快生出來沒奶粉錢
而且又喜歡跑到各學校去灌輸大學生自成一格的男子漢理論
還喜歡去盜圖跟改圖,一點公德心都沒有

結果是
在台灣原本要變乞丐的人
因為楊基寬董事長偉大的志業現在是去做人力或義工,原本可以躺在馬路上的現在變成躺在辦公桌上
而原本想去當空姐的,還是跑去當空姐了...(怎麼會這樣~~~~)

兩個人的出發點好像有點像,但是過程跟際遇和現況怎麼這麼不同呢~~~
2009-06-11 @ 18:54
迴響 from: 達羅 [訪問者]
翻譯魔界賺的錢可以讓你到現在一值在各大學校和網站亂發言

直到現在


還亂發評論
你能不能去開工車禍計程車啊
2009-06-11 @ 19:33
迴響 from: Fantasy [訪問者]
羊董事長
發夢在英國路上見到乞丐被好心的駕駛人移到路旁
擔心這個模擬的畫面
在他(或採訪妓者)覺得文化水平與英國有落差的台灣
會變成大家開車繞過那個乞丐
於是發願成立一間為強勢資方謀福利的奴隸仲介公司
而且經營的還不錯,前兩年上市還造成轟動
不過冥滿天下,謗亦隨之...
結果好心被當驢肝肺
現在被揭露為資本家仲介壓榨虐待奴役求職者的管道
因為他提出了不支薪當義工的丁丁策略...
這年頭好人難做呀!!


----------------------------------------

這讓我想起另一個發願的故事
這個故事是從去年七月數位時代第170期看到的
主角是一個在封面上站在大正妹張鈞甯後面的長頭髮大胖子
將近十年前他因為做了某件吃力不討好的事
讓他瞬間家喻戶曉
然後像電影環遊世界八十天一樣環遊世界
親身遇到有錢買頭等艙座位的醫生欺負女空服員的事
所以他也像羊先生一樣想要改變弱勢者的處境
把辛苦賺來的錢拿去砸到開發開放式中文化課程
不過他沒有羊董事長般懂得使用『無薪奴隸策略』
開放式課程又差點被某知名科技公司搞垮
聽說他最近文發得差不多了,被他砲過的,連唉批都不換,跑來繼續被砲,他覺得尋無敵手,索然無趣
於是又開始喜歡跑到各學校去傳授大學生獨樹一格的男子漢理論-『宅-要宅的有志氣!』
還喜歡改圖諷刺社會怪象,被視為阿宅中的阿宅

結果是
在台灣原本要變乞丐的人
因為羊董事長偉大的志業現在是去做乞丐中的乞丐,原本只能待在家中的阿宅,現在成為阿宅中的阿宅
而原本在嘴砲的,他還是在嘴砲~~
2009-06-11 @ 20:11
迴響 from: Patrice [訪問者]
有成功經驗的人才適合創業
這是一句謊言
在別人公司都做不好 自己做公司怎麼做得好
這也是一句謊言

在人家公司打工做不好有很多原因
有可能是工作內容不能讓你發揮能力
也有可能是公司政治讓你無力做正事
當然也可能是因為自己個性不好能力不佳
原因太多
也很混雜難以釐清

但是
如果不快樂
就離開吧
有勇氣
就自己創業吧

該踩出去就踩出去
有勇氣但是不要愚勇
每個人都有天賦的潛能
認清自己能力盡力去學習成長發揮
才是最有效益的生命

創業者你可以做你最喜歡做的事情
但也別忘了
所有你不喜歡做的事情你也都得做
有這種guts
就放膽去做

那種說要有成功經驗才能在創業上成功的理論
聽起來有道理
但其實是屁話

不要埋沒自己的才能
找出來
好好磨亮
2009-06-11 @ 20:53
迴響 from: 阿達 [訪問者]
樓上的,雖然我贊同e04確實是幫助資方奴役勞方的兇手,不過朱先生的開放式課程做的很粗糙,如果想當人人稱頌的聖人,麻煩本分先做好,好歹名副其實點.
每次聽到這些護駕人員拿開放式課程出來說嘴,我就嚴重懷疑這些人看不懂英文,再不然根本沒上過大學課程,光翻譯個課程綱要是有個屁用?要說那是光有空架子擺著好看都不夠格.

那課程,真是夠爛的了!
附帶一提,我不是e04的打手,只是覺得那個課程根本就是沽名釣譽,做的爛死了!


(Lucifer:噗痴~~~
2009-06-11 @ 21:02
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
TO:阿達

那請問閣下是否願意當開放式課程的義工
免費翻譯這些課程讓大家使用?
盡一份心力讓它更好
而不是只想著要享受別人作好的東西來嘴砲
2009-06-11 @ 21:12
迴響 from: 蛆啃啦啦 [訪問者]
為了作人家大老婆先打開大腿跟人家睡了,真的是個好主意嗎???
2009-06-11 @ 21:32
迴響 from: Fantasy [訪問者]
>>樓上的,雖然我贊同e04確實是幫助資方奴役勞方的兇手,不過朱先生的開放式課程做的很粗糙,如果想當人人稱頌的聖人,麻煩本分先做好,好歹名副其實點.

朱大從來沒說過要當聖人..你哪隻眼睛看到了?左眼.右眼還是老花眼?

>>每次聽到這些護駕人員拿開放式課程出來說嘴,我就嚴重懷疑這些人看不懂英文,再不然根本沒上過大學課程,光翻譯個課程綱要是有個屁用?要說那是光有空架子擺著好看都不夠格.

真不好意思,在下上過大學,英文也還可以,可以充當同事跟國外原廠concall的即時翻譯.

既然閣下認為不夠格,麻煩你來報名參與吧,提出你那偉大的遠見來讓大家參考,如果你與眾不同的地方只有嘴砲,那也真難為你了.

>>那課程,真是夠爛的了!
還是一樣,覺得爛,請用你那偉大的雙手來改變.
別光是出一張嘴.

開放式課程裡的2004年春季電磁學理論,可是讓我這個RD受益良多.
2009-06-11 @ 21:37
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
> 迴響 from: 達羅 [訪問者]
翻譯魔界賺的錢可以讓你到現在一值在各大學校和網站亂發言

直到現在


還亂發評論
你能不能去開工車禍計程車啊
======================

  這樣好了,你去做個免錢的勇者勞工,體驗一下所謂贏在起跑點的發展性,再來看看朱學恒到底有沒有亂評論。
2009-06-11 @ 21:37
迴響 from: Fantasy [訪問者]
==================================
還亂發評論
你能不能去開工(公)車禍(或)計程車啊
==================================
來踼館的都只有這種水準嗎?XD
2009-06-11 @ 21:41
迴響 from: Fantasy [訪問者]
========================================
翻譯魔界(戒)賺的錢可以讓你到現在一值(直)在各大學校和網站亂發言

直到現在


還亂發評論
你能不能去開工(公)車禍(或)計程車啊
========================================
錯字錯成這樣,比小學生還糟糕..
2009-06-11 @ 21:46
迴響 from: 不想當「義工」 [訪問者]
朱大:

這裡有一個當老闆的人,寫的一些「屁話」

「做老闆的屁話」http://blog.udn.com/zino/3032812

看他寫了一堆,似乎蠻認同那104楊先生所言。
難道當老闆的人,真的和我們一般人想的不一樣嗎?
甚至還有人迴文支持,
認為「…零工資讓老闆至少比較願意多僱用幾個人,也願意僱用成績比較差的。…」
「…有些好工作就算你貼錢去上班,老闆前幾個月還是賠錢。因為新來的人啥都不會,甚至還拖累舊人。 …」

原來員工訓練的開支,從來不是老闆計算成本中的一項。

各位新鮮人,認清現實吧!
在「人力過剩」的現況下,老闆不會用你的。
因為你只「會拖累舊人」、只「會得罪客戶」。

我倒不知,所有的老闆都要用「有經驗」的人,
那「有經驗」的人夠不夠這些老闆去搶?
還是會有「笨老闆」願意培養新人,
讓「聰明老闆」去搶?

或者是:
新人以後只能當「義工」(打怪?),
累積「經驗值」,
「破關」以後,才能當正職,
才有資格領錢?

原來世界又回到原點,
不是當「學徒」就是當「奴隸」?

當老闆的認為「…學校裡教的東西 99% 不能馬上派用場。除非你是天縱英明的舉一反三百,
在讀書的時候就已經有完整概念(例如家學淵源),學校教的保證不能直接拿出來用。
所以公司是在貼補你的學習。…」

因為還要「貼補你的學習」,所以……

你---不能 領錢!!!

現在真的是21世紀嗎?

還是我錯亂了,「謅壓搜」還沒誕生嗎?
2009-06-11 @ 21:58
迴響 from: 艾兒 [訪問者] · http://blog.yam.com/australia_elle
這篇文章實在是有點斷章取義
延畢是懦夫只是演講的其中一段
真正重要的是要學習勇者
勇於面對各種挑戰

Lucifer:挑戰是說當奴隸免費工作嗎?
2009-06-11 @ 22:10
迴響 from: UNDER [訪問者]
艾兒說的讓我有點害怕

當奴隸免費工作當然不是用來證明自己不是懦夫的方法

不過其實我很怕

很多情況下會延畢的人 很多情況下一直找不到工作 或是一直找不到理想工作的人

是不是也代表某種程度上比較屬於不願面對現實的人呢?

究竟是這個社會的責任 還是我們自己的脆弱要負責呢

不願意面對複雜的辦公室文化 究竟是自己的風骨所致 還是只是為自己無能所找的藉口?

我真的很怕 儘管我在朱大的文字下得到了不少信心

可是也許到頭來我終究只是把各種理想寄託於文字世界的空想家

在想要追求自己的理想同時 很怕這只是自己想要逃避現狀的藉口

真的是..... 很迷惑阿......
2009-06-11 @ 22:41
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
>>「做老闆的屁話」http://blog.udn.com/zino/3032812

=====================
 普遍支持這種觀點的小企業業主會去避談:

  以下兩點是本人進業界,所看到的一點問題,在家族企業當道的台灣,只算是冰山一角的積弊。

一,自己公司的老臣,真的是人才嗎?家族企業當道,進一間公司看員工姓什麼即可初步明白什麼人可得罪,什麼人碰不得。

二,教育訓練有落實嗎?這是很多公司都做不好的事。有問題的管理階層必然帶出二百五的幹部,擦屁股時常常會看到老闆在問:奇怪,有些問題以前不會發生現在怎麼會出現?<-問這些有個鳥用,管理階層既然要用老臣,就別指望他們能變出什麼新把戲,沒做任何內部檢討,一味歸咎是新人的問題才是問題。
2009-06-11 @ 23:05
迴響 from: 不想當「義工」 [訪問者]
剛去洗澡,在浴室中突然靈光一閃:

原來,老闆們對中華民國的教育實在是太失望了。
所以他們決定把企業改造成「大學」。

大學畢業的新鮮人,只會「拖累舊人」,
所以需要「再教育」。

變成
企業 ==> 大學

進入企業 ==> 考 大學

實習 ==> 受 教育

難怪嘛!

除了公費生,現在讀哪個大學是有錢領的?

就說讓你來「學習」的,

沒讓你「繳學費」就萬幸了,

還想領錢?

等你從「企業大學」畢業,
找到「工作」再說!

老闆:對公司有貢獻的員工才有用,
不能幫公司賺錢的就滾吧,
公司可不是慈善機構。
還需要訓練的(還想領錢?),就別想進來公司了!
無薪實習(免費奴工)還可以考慮....
沒有人才?
去別家公司挖,就有了!

新鮮人:原來自己還不算畢業啊,
還要考,還要「學習」.....

104「企業大學聯招委員會」:

孩子,別擔心,我們會幫你們找到最有競爭力的「學校」的!

--------------------------------------------

去!

不是每個人都想當老闆(肥貓)的!

大多數人只是想有一份穩定的工作,足以養家活口就好。

為啥這些「成功人士」都要新鮮人使用「勇者策略」?

乾脆叫新鮮人去「臥薪嘗膽」「忍辱負重」(勾踐復國?)好了。

不過就是讓員工「養家活口」罷了,

有這麼難嗎?

有這麼難嗎?(向肥貓老闆怒吼!!!)

2009-06-11 @ 23:10
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
補:

  在公司不願意花費時間成本去處理無形人的問題,偏偏這是一家公司有問題內部文化的治本之道,反而去算計量化可見的新人試誤成本...

  那你他媽幹業主最好就事必躬親,也別想做大了。
2009-06-11 @ 23:26
迴響 from: [POD] fox (26) [訪問者]
...
求職過程的關鍵 跟 武藏站在70個人面前一樣
如果你已經做好了功課
不要再想!

事前研究你要前往的公司是幹什麼生意的,公司歷史,甚至公司裡面有沒有正妹 你都記好了,而且你也記得你自己的名字 就該動手了
沒有放過的道理!

這時候的執念就有極大的可能讓你跨進門
你只要專心的把手上的任務搞定
支援你的同事 讓你的同事可以有閒暇來指導你技巧

至於後面拍馬屁/出賣同僚...這些事情我懶的弄也不要問我 我是一個直接的人


ps.朱大的開放課程受到"鞭策"了...教育的難度就是如此...要用不同的敘述方式讓背景不同的人馬上明白...加油阿!
我其實很肚濫專科碰到一個只會照課本唸的微積分教授(他還提倡用背的...)讓我的思考不能更細膩的反解

2009-06-11 @ 23:35
迴響 from: rammstein [訪問者]
突然本官又POA上身...
媽拉 你各位是沒當過兵阿 先求有 再求好
沒有一二三 哪來的四五六

我要誠懇的告訴各位 這就是中華民國建軍的不二法門: 一二三嘴砲
先給你一坨葡萄皮 告訴你葡萄皮要對葡萄有榮譽感
順便用 "沒觀念"法則 請"有觀念"的老兵拉正
對一二三跟四五六之間關聯性產生懷疑的菜兵

於是乎 連營軍官有氣力被旅處學長凹到爆等終身俸
士官可以有時間二十四小時監看娛樂器材等年限
老兵有菜兵愛玩人間充分發洩過剩精力等退伍
菜兵有莒光作人簿 申訴電話 作 老了以後雨過天晴的大頭夢

吾有個假說 現今台灣企業有多少中高階主管的
管理學知識 就是靠這套菜官初階玩人法建構起來的?
今日四十歲上下 大專學歷 預官背景的主管
哪個真的能跳脫 拉大及運用管與被管者階級差異的玩人法?
就一句菜的要認份 有空多念書 二兵要主動
老實講
腰動四的邏輯比離營宣教還不如
2009-06-11 @ 23:46
迴響 from: 阿達 [訪問者]
To Fantasy:
>>真不好意思,在下上過大學,英文也還可以,可以充當同事跟國外原廠concall的即時翻譯.
------>那你看過以後應該發現這個開放式課程本身就有缺陷,必須搭配其他資源才能發揮效用,那些資源必須靠使用者自己去搜尋,搜尋的資源也不會自動給你中文化,換句話說,會用的人,本身就要會英文,那翻譯了那些表象,又有什麼益處?最多撈個社會美名網路上幹醮人可以比較大聲,每次有人反駁,支持者就可以跑出來罵:那你又對社會做了什麼?
拿來當證據說嘴好用罷了,事實上,這玩意兒一點用處都沒有,徵翻譯也是免錢的,你們的朱大的時間都花在網路罵人,義工幫他拼死拼活徵美名,他自己倒是過的挺愜意的.

>>既然閣下認為不夠格,麻煩你來報名參與吧,提出你那偉大的遠見來讓大家參考,如果你與眾不同的地方只有嘴砲,那也真難為你了.

----->在下認為,朱先生有時間在網路上花那麼多時間到處找攻擊對象,不如認真點想辦法改善這個課程的缺陷,不要只想找人筆戰,對社會意義不大,義工繼續翻那些沒意義的東西(第一次帶著朝聖的心情去過之後,我只想罵髒話,到底是什麼爛東西?課程概要翻那麼清楚要死啊?知識在哪裡?哪裡?哪裡啊?浪費我的時間來膜拜,幹!)

>>那課程,真是夠爛的了!
>>還是一樣,覺得爛,請用你那偉大的雙手來改變.
別光是出一張嘴.

----->有批評才會有進步,至少我會提出我對這個課程的意見,而不是一股勁兒的猛巴結,造神活動不問是非去對岸就夠了,台灣不需要!

>>開放式課程裡的2004年春季電磁學理論,可是讓我這個RD受益良多.

------>你要不是本身程度夠可以自己找到輔助資源,要不然就是你在瞎虎爛,就像某些人以為手裡拿本書就可以裝氣質,說這個課程有幫助就代表自己勤奮好學,那些義工翻譯發現到的問題不少,你不如好好的去作個研究,再來告訴我你到底得到多少幫助,其他課程其他人從中獲益多少!

我真的覺得朱先生花太多時間製造社會動亂和網路筆戰,當初把他捧上天的正事卻荒廢不管,辜負了大家對他的期待,也枉費他得到這麼多人"盲目"的支持.

花那麼多時間打這麼多字,代表我很誠懇,不是專程喇賽.
只想提醒朱先生,莫忘初衷!

(Lucifer:你這麼有誠意要不要回去找一下上次在東森新聞討論區臭幹我的理由完全是另外一套啊。孩子,想幹人不要找理由,假裝誠懇想要給建議是很假掰的。各位,不要以為留言換個暱稱我就不知道你是誰了。一句老話啦,要抹黑要戰不要搞的假情假意的,你看人家e04多誠懇,你就差多了。
2009-06-11 @ 23:51
迴響 from: 阿達 [訪問者]
朱大,你是不是有被害妄想症啊你?
我發誓我沒有在東森新聞區幹醮過你!
如果這種言論你不想聽,直接點講就好,不用抹黑別人!
2009-06-12 @ 00:08
迴響 from: coolchung [訪問者]
阿達

開放式課程只是個義工性質,然後主要目的是讓大家看看那些名校的上課的講義

這樣的計畫下的東西要達到專業級?這樣的要求應該去對學校教授講會比較符合

如果看講義就ok了。那補習班是開心酸,去補習的學生是白癡囉?

既然是義工性質的,基本就值得嘉獎了,換作是你會想要去做嗎?

我不會,所以我很佩服朱大願意為這樣的計畫燒這麼多錢

朱大雖然在網路上面講些有的沒有的,但是老實講真沒有對社會有很大的影響,你看看波波鬧這麼大,上位者還是那樣呀,我週遭沒有上網的朋友也不知道啊,所以不用擔心朱大會製造社會動亂,他只是個宅男而已XDD

朱大這樣做其實很符合他的初衷,你有空可以去圖書館借朱大前幾篇講的賣不出去的書"打電動玩英文"看看她寫的遊俠世代。用借的就好囉XD

他裡面定義的遊俠世代接觸和提供訊息的地方就是網路,然後遊俠市很個人主義的。這些完全符合現在朱大的作風。

在網路上面發聲,開放式課程也是在網路上面。然後只要能遊俠們同意你的看法,你就可以讓他們響應。這樣又符合你說大家歲的"盲目"支持他

他哪有莫忘初衷?

這樣的自由發表自己意見,正是台灣的可貴之處

我雖然不是每篇都贊同朱大,但是我絕對支持你所謂的朱大都在發言製造社會動亂
2009-06-12 @ 01:02
http://hongdou.gxnews.com.cn/viewthread-3847672-1.html

我也希望加薪啊,希望各位幫忙爭取,謝謝

相比之下,日本和其它外國汽車公司的負擔要小得多。這些工廠是在過去二十年中設立的,職工要年輕得多。豐田汽車在2007年的退休金開支只有通用的十分之一。而且,許多工廠擯棄了退休金製度,轉而採取所謂「401K」退休計劃,也就是職工自己管理退休賬戶。另外在醫療保險上也採取了更加節省的辦法。因此,通用每生產一輛車醫療保險費的支出是一千五百美元,豐田卻只有一百一十美元。

明知道高福利制度正在拖垮三大汽車巨頭,可是改革這一制度在政治上卻是行不通。強大的汽車工會代表著三大公司的藍領職工,不僅抗拒任何降低福利的提議,而且還在不斷地要求更高的工資和福利。鑒於汽車工會的勢力,特別是該組織與民主黨的密切關係,即將上台的奧巴馬政府和民主黨國會可能更加傾向於動用政府的力量來挽救這些衰敗的公司。

在五十年代,通用汽車公司的董事長查理‧威爾遜——後來到艾森豪威爾政府當了國防部長——曾經說過一句非常有名的話:「對通用有利的事情對國家都有利」。那時候的通用,代表了美國在世界上的科學技術和工業生產的領先地位。半個世紀過去之後,美國的國力依然強大,通用的輝煌卻已經是明日黃花。儘管有政府的扶助,三大汽車巨頭如果不改革,能夠苟延殘喘的時間也不多了。 



''''什麼都不幹,一年也可以領15萬美元!!!105萬人民幣!我建議通用下崗員工來中國養老~~~
2009-06-12 @ 01:13
這世界不應該有競爭,陸生來台唸書,應該要融入我們的文化啦,

這樣才會世界和平啦。
---

「許多生活小習慣,例如陸生上課特別準時,8點20分的課,8點10分就提早到教室搶坐最前面的位置,上課時還積極發問,讓老師刮目相看,」傅勝利笑著說,這樣的學習風氣讓台灣學生也開始有「輸人不輸陣」的心態,上課遲到、搶坐教室邊邊、不擅發問的習慣漸漸都改正過來。
2009-06-12 @ 01:32
迴響 from: 連睡三天 [訪問者]
*****
剛剛睡到一半,做了一個怪夢,跟大家分享一下。夢裡有兩個人在說話~
---------------------------------------
A:有一個傢伙,說他小時候很辛苦,因此發心要照顧有各種不幸遭遇的小孩,後來成立了收容之家,收容了很多小朋友。好像很好心喔。結果發現負責人不但性侵男童,還叫少女賣淫,說是符合現今笑貧不笑娼的時代趨勢,真是太人渣了!
B:幹!A你也沒有好到哪裡去,上次說要發起活動,清掃附近的公園,結果只是把垃圾撿一撿,草也不會割一割,溜滑梯也沒有擦乾淨。你這個A宅,與其有空批判別人,不如先去把公園的公廁馬桶小便斗都舔乾淨,這樣對社會才有貢獻!
----------------------------------------

聽到要舔馬桶,我就被臭醒了,現在有點睡不著,特發此文為記
2009-06-12 @ 01:42
我覺得E04應該像『全美汽車工人聯合會』努力維護我們年輕勞工的利益,

努力幫我們爭取勞工福利,企業應該提供公假帶職進修碩士,
讓我們學生更有國際競爭力啦,福氣啦!!

讓我們平安的度過金融危機。都是社會上的老人製造金融危機要我們收爛攤子啦,
跟我們無關啦。

號召大家!! T牌壓榨勞工,違背人性,製造社會動亂,阻礙青年發展,

就是扼殺我們民族幼苗啦。

竟然沒有終身退休金,T牌為什麼要破壞行情呢?

共產主義萬歲!! 無產階級革命萬歲!!
------
  2月10日,通用宣佈將裁減1萬名白領僱員,為此將與UAW展開談判。UAW在此之前同意取消臭名昭著的「職業庫」(job bank)。

  「職業庫」是20世紀70年代勞工合同的產物。工會極力阻止解雇工人,如果工廠不需要那麼多的勞動力,沒有活兒的工人就進入了這個所謂的「職業庫」,不幹活兒但是錢照拿不誤,直到公司給他們找到另外的工作。

  事實上,過去的某些年中,汽車公司在「職業庫」項目上的開支已超過了10億美元。在今後四年裡,如按現有的勞工合同,通用汽車至少還要支付近20億美元。

  工會強大的勢力,硬是扭曲了資本主義引以為榮的多勞多得、自由競爭的體制,創造出不勞而獲的「金飯碗」,也催生了一個新特權階層。這與華爾街儘管虧空卻照發獎金有異曲同工之處,說明工會與華爾街的大腕一樣,在「自由資本主義」的體制內,各自為自己的利益集團創造出一個持續的壟斷局面。這恐怕是「自由」市場的鼓吹者始料未及的。

  企業重負難當

  美國政府要求美國汽車「三巨頭」(通用、福特和克萊斯勒)的每小時工資與外國在美汽車公司看齊,從現在的每小時70美元以上,降低到豐田(Toyota)的40美元水平。UAW主席榮·蓋特爾芬格(Ron Gettelfinger)出來辯護說,每小時70多美元的工資包括了退休金和醫療保險的費用,甚至包括平攤到在職工人頭上的退休工人福利,所以,每小時70多美元的工資實際上誇張了工會工人的真正工資費用。

  但是,這些費用無論歸在什麼名目下,畢竟是日本公司不負擔的。而這些費用平均到通用製造的每輛車上,竟高達2000美元,僅此一例就足以說明通用根本沒法和豐田競爭。

  每一次工會合同的談判,汽車公司都堅決抵制大幅度增加工資,因為這會直接影響到利潤。公司往往會在退休金等福利上做讓步,畢竟這筆費用要在很遠的將來兌現,那就讓將來的管理階層去發愁吧!

2009-06-12 @ 01:44

都是E04害大家的,E04要提出兼顧短、中、長期培養計畫,

不能老叫我們作白工,我們不是工作機器,工作只是餬口飯,

工作,就是要,準時下班,享受人生,

我不在乎大陸人才競爭有多激烈,那是他們國家的事,

他們的競爭力強、起薪低,跟我們有哪種關聯?

我就活在台灣啊!!企業要移出台灣,我們應該譴責他們不愛國,

日本派遣又怎樣呢?台灣應該聯合抵制這邪惡的制度,

就是派遣害死我們年輕人失去競爭力,

叫企業聯合抵制就對了,政府都不作為,亂搞!!

E04更要提醒台灣企業善盡社會責任、道德義務,你們企業不培養我們,

我準時下班事為了,認真努力念研究所,提昇貴公司競爭力,

你們去哪裡找更好用、更願意努力向上的人才呢?

E04應該努力培養我國青年人才,邁入國際社會,提昇國際競爭力。

---------
《中國新聞週刊》文章:為何要救美國車?

2008年12月01日 15:02 來源:中國新聞網

  幾個小時後,美國汽車業「三巨頭」通用、福特、克萊斯勒的首席執行官神情嚴肅地坐在了參議院聽證會的發言席上。他們強烈要求政府從7000億美元的金融救助計劃中撥出250億美元資金,「倘若不能獲得注資,『三巨頭』倒閉,將給美國經濟帶來災難性後果」 。

  福克斯新聞社報道說,「三巨頭」動之以情,曉之以理。但請求在參院受阻,議員們似乎不願救助陷入困境的汽車業,「原因複雜」。

  一連幾天,卡爾‧斯尼德都在關注汽車業相關報道,「這事關我的飯碗呀」。

  美聯社數據顯示,美國汽車業直接吸收35.5萬勞動力,輻射上下游相關行業約450萬個就業崗位。這還不包括大約100萬汽車業退休工人及其家屬等依賴企業退休金和醫療保險金維持生計者。

  「只要是對通用汽車有利就是對美國有利」,這是底特律的信條。而現在情況發生了變化。圍繞是否拯救「三巨頭」,民主黨和共和黨、白宮和國會、汽車製造商和公眾展開了拉鋸戰

  布萊迪代表了當下美國輿論的走向。主流媒體上常常可以見到對工會尖酸刻薄的批評。「汽車工會甚至胡作非為,會員的職位都可以父傳子。」汽車工會規定,一個「三巨頭」汽車裝配工時薪是71.5美元,看門人一年也有七八萬的收入,而大學畢業生年薪現在不過2萬美元。

  豐田等外國汽車公司在美國一般不設工會,「他們的普通工人一小時只有40塊錢。『三巨頭』工人收入比日本汽車公司工人收入平均高66%。」「通用等公司擔負沉重的退休金和醫療福利,支付對像包括僱員、退休員工及其家屬,費用每年高達數百億美元……兩個美國汽車工會會員要養一個退休工人。」

  過去5年,汽車工會還用強大的力量遊說民主黨議員,反對環保,反對節能要求……「凡是進步的都反對,自吃苦果。」

  近10年來,美國汽車工業執行了「錯誤邏輯」——把汽車當作消耗品。新車5年後毛病就出來了,而日本和歐洲車,即便10年後,只要保養好,還能繼續開。美國汽車製造商還一度熱衷生產流行休旅車SUV。隨著房產泡沫的破碎,SUV的泡沫也破碎了。SUV的積壓和新產品的開發不足阻礙「三巨頭」轉型。
2009-06-12 @ 02:20
迴響 from: 異形 [訪問者] Email
(茶)

這裡真是和平啊
2009-06-12 @ 03:31
迴響 from: 提傑小子 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/IrishBoy
這是我第一次發文耶
但是我不是要來拍手
因為我覺得有沒有工作和景氣根本沒關係
景氣的時候一樣有人失業
不景氣的時候也一樣有人起薪很高
或是還沒畢業就有工作
某方面來說
應該是每個領域的大學畢業的人太多了
讓企業沒有一個選你而不選擇另外九千人的理由
像他說的,尤其是新鮮人
闖入公司,"拿著一本有效的企劃案"
然後自告奮勇的說要來做免錢的
我不知道其它的啦
但就我學的傳播而言
我覺得現在的企業就算不使用他們
也不會把他們當白痴
對自己而言
這也是讓自己被企業看見的很大很好的機會
畢竟
如果做奴隸真的沒有意義的話
怎麼會有那麼多大學生在搶沒什麼錢(或沒錢)
然後負責端茶倒水影印和給人罵的"學生實習"
而且不支薪又不是說永遠都不支薪
如果你真的有才而且被proved的話
老闆怎麼會不願意花錢請你
就算那個老闆是豬頭好了
同產業的其他公司知道你的名字
也應該會把你挖過去吧
是說
真的是人才的話誰不想要


是自己的想法啦
大家不開心的話就炸我吧:)
2009-06-12 @ 04:07
迴響 from: Noel00 [訪問者] Email
*****





勞工市場就是一種市場機制
22K甚至不支薪就要得到勞工?

後果就是年輕人不生 年輕人被暴肝
長期下來吃虧的還是資方

但是他們在意嗎? 他們吸台灣人的血
用便宜的水電 繳便宜的稅 用廉價的勞工
開著雙B整天喊難賺錢

是誰欠誰啊?
2009-06-12 @ 07:35
迴響 from: chuck [訪問者]
*****
朱恐龍,苦主嗆你沒看完全文耶.. 不過我看完以後,我覺得沒看過全文的是他自己吧
2009-06-12 @ 08:14
迴響 from: 條伯 [訪問者] · http://www.tonywu.idv.tw/blog/
*****
說的太好了!大家加油!
自我進修、充實自己,等待時機再起!
2009-06-12 @ 08:26
迴響 from: 同意不過 [訪問者]
*****
我覺得要新鮮人不之薪工作實在太沒道理,新鮮人經過這種對待,恐怕會對未來前景產生很糟糕地看法,甚至因此喪失信心,當老闆的人,只會希望減少成本,並且把你的做牛做馬當成理所當然。
2009-06-12 @ 09:26
迴響 from: DUDU [訪問者]
>>阿達
>製造社會動亂...那也要朱大先變成哥吉拉
>和網路筆戰...筆戰?很和平啊,哪來的筆戰???
還有你快去找你的老師啊啊啊~~~
(一封國小老師的信~~~(二)第41篇回覆)

(三秒過後...)

啊!...阿達兄!有人盜用你的ID~~~(驚!)




>異形
和平真好...(遞羊羹)

(剛剛網站爆炸了好幾十分...這不會是陰謀吧???)
2009-06-12 @ 09:29
迴響 from: g8202 [訪問者]
http://blog.career.com.tw/managing/default_content.aspx?na_id=623&na_toolid=401

就業情報 也來參一腳


工作送上門,大學生竟然不要?


為搶救青年失業,政府大手筆投下近300億元,推出「培育優質人力促進就業計畫」,其中最重要的項目,就是全額補助最近3年畢業的大學生到企業實習1年,薪水由政府買單。對企業來說,這等於政府免費奉送勞工上門,拿到1個名額就可省下30多萬用人成本,因此無不卯足全力爭取員額。而對青年來說,34,000個工作從天而降,這是何等寶貴的機會啊!雖然政府補貼的薪水只有2.2萬元,但許多企業都會酌情加碼,只要實習期間表現良好,1年後轉為正職人員的機會很高。
然而,對照於企業界的一頭熱,社會新鮮人的反應卻異常冷淡,許多學校從教育部拿到3、4百個名額,前來申請者卻只有100多人,況且不見得每一個人企業都會用,最終媒合成功的只有寥寥數十人。青年世代不是對就業充滿焦慮嗎?不是常抱怨學校和政府害他們沒工作嗎?為何工作送上門了,申請者竟然如此冷清?真是怪事!
對名校生來說,由於不難找到比2.2萬元更好的工作,而且絕大多數畢業後選擇先升學,對這項企業實習方案不太熱衷,還算情有可原。但是就連一些排名落後的學校,學生也興趣缺缺,寧可在家裡待業,這就令人感到不解了。
有一所在大學指考排名吊車尾的學校,附近的太陽光電廠提供了數十個企業實習機會,該校竟然沒有任何一個人提出申請,因為學生很排斥需要穿無塵衣的工作。類似這種挑三揀四、嫌棄挑剔的現象,在各校都層出不窮。恕我說一句重話:你們以為自己是誰啊?不照照鏡子,企業肯給你們機會,已經很抬舉你們了,你們哪裡有挑工作的資格!
由於教育部在實習名額分配上,是以各校畢業人數多寡作為標準,不管學校排名好壞都雨露均霑,有些企業搶不到一、二線大學的學生,只好打破慣例招收三、四線大學的學生。「程度真是差到不可思議!」一位用人主管面試過幾個人之後,坦白表示有不少後段班的大學生,就算政府免費送給企業,企業也不想用,因為底子太差、沒生產力可言,而且什麼都得從頭教、爛攤子收拾不完。
這位主管說,「有人抱怨政府把青年當成廉價勞工,2.2萬塊錢就賣給企業當實習生,我認為其實給1塊錢薪水都嫌太多,許多大學生鬼混得太凶,對企業的貢獻根本是負值,應該是他們倒貼薪水給企業才對。」
如果青年求職還是如此挑剔,政府給了救生圈也不用;如果青年世代不力求上進,程度低落到免費奉送企業也沒人敢用的話,即使有朝一日景氣回春,台灣青年失業率也不可能下降!

2009-06-12 @ 10:07
迴響 from: 亂七八糟! [訪問者]
這一波全球經濟不景氣, 所有產業都受影響嗎? 未必. 但是一堆沒受影響的產業, 看別人吃火鍋喊熱, 看別人228喊悲情領便當. 就順便得到一堆自願減薪的員工.

現在有了 104 老闆的說法, 更光明正大要你免費來公司上班!

那套用104 老闆的說法, 沒老婆上床的男人是不是可以免費(付費也行!)去有老婆的家裡實習以增加經驗值? 104 老闆要不要先開放自家?

莫名其妙, 亂七八糟!
2009-06-12 @ 10:10
迴響 from: 阿威 [訪問者]
我覺得楊基寬沒去香港演古惑仔真是太可惜了!

他可以演陳小春的兄弟,被人幹掉,然後陳小春回來復仇,臉型一整個太適合啊!

(其實也很像賭神4裡的特異功能大師,不過我不曉得他叫什麼名字)
2009-06-12 @ 10:20
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
朱宅,
楊家將反擊了耶!
他說你沒看現場錄影,
快調帶子出來!!
2009-06-12 @ 10:43
迴響 from: 小小土 [訪問者]
*----
我拿我的企劃到IBM,結果他們警衛開了門,把我從椅子上請到外面地上。

e04準備成為全台最大的畢業生收容中心,還分三班制,國立及私立制,三個月以上找不到工作及半年以上找不到制...

鐵:上面說的倫敦故事,我記得是日本啊。
楊:是倫敦
朱:是台灣....(大家笑了)

說真的,我是來鬧的。看一篇新聞讓我大腦充滿創意
2009-06-12 @ 11:17
迴響 from: 看了電影一點也沒被救贖到的史恩 [訪問者]
****-
我比較好奇聯合報今天那篇報導是真的有訪問到朱大嗎?還是只是將兩邊的文字湊起來,再冠上隔空交火的聳動文字而已??

大推這一句:創業,不該是不景氣時候的另一個選項,而是成功時才作的事!

這種鬼話也講得出來...
2009-06-12 @ 11:19
迴響 from: sjgau [訪問者] Email
很久以前在 PTT 上面就看過徵人啟事,
無經驗者不但沒有薪水,還要付給老闆
訓練費用,比照資策會六個月程式設計師
訓練班的收費標準。
還說,一對一on job training, 比資策會的開班,還更能學到東西,所以就自認為是
合理的收費,幹!
2009-06-12 @ 11:19
迴響 from: bill1712 [訪問者] · http://blog.udn.com/bill1712
104自己是真的提供一個「沒錢也要做」的勇者策略「好工作」:見圖片連結http://blogs.myoops.org/media/blogs/lucifer/Forblog651.jpg,找一位協助市調的pm,做市調、問券設計、平台維護跟資料分析,還指定會統計、熟spss。

最近懦夫+奴隸勇者論紅遍網路後,也出現了一位偽造多個身分但忘了要換ip的104正職人員四處反擊。

「沒錢也要做」的「好工作」,未來有機會歷練成一個「偽造多重身分卻連ip記錄都不懂的優秀人才」,楊董的訓練與教誨果然是可敬可佩阿!

可能104元老員工們股票多到可以退休了吧,不過要是104想轉行的朋友有機會來敝公司面試,我會「記住」楊先生教誨出來的劉小姐及其同事們其態度、品格與專業能力的!!
2009-06-12 @ 11:27
迴響 from: 越南台勞 [訪問者]
勇者策略?

沒錢也要做,那104怎麼不先取消企業收費這部份,企業要是覺得好用自然會給錢ㄚ!
什麼?有企業不給錢?
那就是你們做的不夠好不夠多,尿還不夠黃!
還不快響應你們董事長說的!

104網站也沒多好,我不要保險仲介的工作了,都還一堆跑出來!
2009-06-12 @ 11:48
迴響 from: 萬普拉斯 [訪問者]
*----
希望部分腦殘的新鮮人或鄉民們能夠找工作順利
2009-06-12 @ 11:48
迴響 from: 路人甲 [訪問者]
****-
http://udn.com/NEWS/SOCIETY/SOC1/4958118.shtml

發現今天這篇新聞到還挺適合的。。。。
「豬」被免費性侵害豬還要感謝當事人
照楊基寬所言︰「免錢上工」嘛!!!
猜兩個字??


[白幹]




2009-06-12 @ 11:53
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
  馬的...俺死盯著這兩串討論串在看就是在等真正幹過勇者勞工的網友現身說法...

  如果本來就沒人這麼做過,那楊先生的勇者策略還真有創意啊...
2009-06-12 @ 12:04
迴響 from: 泳者無懼 [訪問者]
ㄊ精采了!
每天都很期待新的續集
2009-06-12 @ 12:06
迴響 from: rammstein [訪問者]
我是覺得中華民國所有跟男性有關的創意都來自國軍
兵當久就知道楊先生的趴數約莫義務役值星班
要小心的 還是躲在背後暗自發錢的那位大俠

吾非常欣賞ㄈ兄所言 也感謝有個那麼誠實的資方
長到這個歲數被面試太多
也面試了一些人
吾當然沒當過資方 但揣摩狗官的身分倒是能了解
那種才面試就把你當再世父母 苛刻要求都不挨一聲的 其實都得了二兵病
一見到公差舉手答有者 多半都有混熟就可以好好酥麻的想像
好者日後擺爛 壞者等著暴走進八么八不榮譽退伍
我最欣賞的就是面試一半就了解我的底線(本官面試非常誠實 被面試亦然) 不浪費彼此時間從容告退者
一個人要到了勉強自己做事的地步 對自己跟管理者都是負擔
佛家有云(佛洛伊德是也) 被壓抑的都會再回來

2009-06-12 @ 13:02
迴響 from: 看過太多人甘願做廉價勞工 [訪問者]
*****
非常贊成筆者的論點,現在的求職者都要有即使被當成一個免費奴工或廉價勞工也要忍氣吞聲的奴隸心態,根本不敢要求適當的待遇和福利,這樣惡性循環下去,以後(其實現在就是)大家可能得付錢給願意施捨一個工作給自己的工司了。
2009-06-12 @ 13:27
迴響 from: Luka [訪問者]
看了文章,特別是楊先生過去的經驗與現在被炮的內容,真的直接連想到布雷希特的《四川好人》:一個好人經營一家煙草店,為了救助接濟一堆窮困的街坊鄰居,必須透過變裝,變身成自己冷酷無情的表哥,然後剝削鞭笞那群窮困潦倒的鄰居,否則她的煙草鋪就會被吃垮。

布雷希特寫這齣戲主要目的是為了突顯在資本主義下,人被迫要吃人,不然就會被吃。因此裡面對那些惡形惡狀的窮苦鄰居的描繪完全冷酷而精確。他當然寄望於社會主義能夠改變這些。劇中情境設在四川,是因為他認為那裡是一個曾經被資本主義統治,現在已經由社會主義革命成功而有了重大改變的地方。

隔了五六十年,當社會主義天堂基本上已經從地球上滅絕之後,再來看這齣戲,以及社會主義者那不失天真浪漫美好的理想,感觸特別深。

對朱先生的文章我只有兩點有小小意見:
1.眾人以朱先生馬首是瞻,可前面已經有人提過了,朱先生當初自己譯好魔戒再自己送上出版社之門的行為,好像應該省思一下。朱先生在這個社會裡的謀生之道,可能與版上許多年輕人不太一樣。
2.朱先生的奴隸比喻我個人認為並不太妥切。封建社會階級是固定的,出生為奴,終身是奴(當然有些歷史機緣可能可以改變,但這不在討論之列)。現代社會裡沒有人注定是奴隸,除非你自我定位為奴隸。因此以奴隸主起碼供吃供住來鞭企業主不想付薪水,似乎不太對勁。
2009-06-12 @ 14:25
迴響 from: 小P [訪問者] Email · http://www.yahoo.com.tw
***--
朱大哥給的論述真的很精采!!!

我個人覺得,楊先生可能只是想激發學生不要畏懼低瀰的景氣,他當初的發言如果是向企業發聲,多在產學合作投注心力,像職前訓練的實習,那倒是無可厚非;因為我本身就是技職體系的學生,我聽聞過許多科系的學生都有進行建教合作的就學方案,由企業提供職缺讓學生一邊工作、一邊讀書。藉此學習到工作經驗,同時學習到技術與學歷。

之前有位葉明桂也曾給社會新鮮人一番建議:『社會新鮮人在踏出職場時,第1要先確定那份工作是不是你所喜歡的。如果不喜歡,不必臥薪嘗膽。工作可分成兩種,一種是為錢而做,一種是為興趣而做。第2,剛開始工作,先不要想錢的事。其實你最多也是差個2、3千塊,所以開頭先不要管多少錢,只要管有沒有學習機會。我們給的起薪都很低,但是我們家卻出了60位總經理。這些人來這裡,開頭都不會去考慮錢,但它一定會兌現的,到時就是3倍、5倍的了。所以開頭先不要談錢,將來就會賺大錢。』

他給的建議就比較貼近實際,學生畢業也是要養家活口的,畢竟現在有這麼多學生都採取助學貸款的方式求學,很多人一畢業身上揹的都是30~50萬不等的貸款,楊先生大概都沒考慮到這一點吧?

而且『重返校園』其實也鼓勵了在職場上的工作人多進修的管道,少子化是環境趨勢,許多科系不是招不滿學生、就是關閉班級數量,難道要學校關門大吉嗎?

往往在求學過程中,若有同學大我數十歲,還重回校園補足學識,我就覺得很令人佩服。

也許該回歸到像您們提倡MIT中文化的初衷一樣,學校是沒有圍牆的,楊先生更不應該用『懦夫』這樣的形容詞來評斷學生。
2009-06-12 @ 14:52
迴響 from: 爬帶同學的同學 [訪問者]
朱大您好
我在這裡有點小小不同的看法

首先 我想說的是 這位楊先生所提出無薪工的概念也並不是新鮮事.

大約十年前我還在台灣唸書的時候.我們最後一年是在醫院實習(非醫護科系). 當時不但要付給學校學費.還得到醫院當白工.半毛薪水都沒!也沒有醫院飯票! 當時的我對這份工作也沒興趣.
所以有沒有機會留下來當正式員工對我來說也不重要. 所以.我只是想說說.這種無薪工的想法.不是在不景氣的時候才會出現! 只要對坳(勞資)關係存在的一天.互坳制度就永遠會進步更新!

後來我來了美國.在這裡無薪/有薪intern都是蠻多見的.
大學在學生或畢業生都會經由學校的管道.聯絡上有需要的公司.大部分公司都會說無薪工作有三個月試用期.到時候會決定是否留人下來.(我個人認為這種事情頂多一個月就知道了.爬帶才會傻傻的被坳三個月).不過.我的爬帶同學也真的被坳了三個月.撐不下去趕快找新工作走人)

不過.有沒有人最後真的得到了正式工作的機會勒?
答案是有的.我在台灣醫院一起實習的同學.最後真的得到了正是工作機會. 在美國的同學們也有直接留下來工作的.

至於.朱大所說的奴隸制度.我認為這是見仁見智.
有本錢坳下去的人.拿時間換經驗也不錯!

如果公司只是用請免費工的心態對人.我想這種公司大概也不值得留戀.趕快拍屁股走人

如果公司肯教.自己又肯學!免費的職訓到哪裡找勒?

在這要鼓勵各位勇者!
爽就作! 不爽就走!












2009-06-12 @ 15:13
迴響 from: 小P [訪問者] · http://www.yahoo.com.tw
後來我也去看了楊先生的新聞報導,他大概是對『成大』的學弟妹們愛之深、責之切吧?

我們都不是當初坐在台下聆聽的成大畢業學生,且受邀來賓的講稿是否成大已審閱過才准許發言,也應該是經由校方認同、決定的。

請注意,新聞稿往往是"公關處"發佈出來的,它們的用辭是否符合原意,就有待考查。

而且後來另外發新聞稿回應的另一個就是『鐵支銀行』,所以我們不必要夾在這二仲介巨頭中間當『活廣告』,被生意人們白白利用…(這是他們二對手間的惡性競爭)

大家也不要太百分之百ㄉ去相信『新聞稿』這種東西,因為新聞媒體的功用,應該是把事件完整且中立的表達出來。而真正對報導產生判斷與分析的,應該是收視群眾自己!!!

新聞,很有可能也是某種置入型行銷的手法...


----------------------------------

與上面無關,但大家不妨看看的現象…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Y1GN-xvyo

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7402824432207128989&hl=en


2009-06-12 @ 15:27
迴響 from: 妙妙妙 [訪問者]
TO:爬帶同學的同學

任何國外成功的制度
不知為何來到寶島都會變成畸形兒

有人說過
"歐美老闆把員工當資本 台灣老闆把員工當成本"
不是說外國的月亮一定比較圓
外國老闆觀察無薪工作者是否為公司所需的人
台灣老闆只純粹當你是用3個月就丟的免洗餐具

應屆畢業生
政府幫企業付22K
希望企業自己添個2.3K
藉由減少企業的人事支出
好讓企業提高聘用應屆畢業生的意願
我們聰明的企業主os
"這還不是上天給我得一大機會(偷笑)"
順理成章的就將底薪調成22K
反正一年後把你砍了
在花22K找新人
多划算阿

更妙的是
翻開求職欄
大家都有經驗者佳
不肯給新人機會
哪裡來的經驗
晚上睡覺 電腦開著掛機就會有EXP嗎?
這也就算了
要人家有經驗
薪水開出來又非常的沒誠意
然後在那邊哭找不到人
年輕人沒抗壓性 囧
這種公司鬼才會要去
真不知道這些老闆他娘生腦袋給他是拿來養金魚的嗎?
2009-06-12 @ 15:56
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]

  實習制度面與"勇者策略"不算是一樣的東西。

  (俺是師範體系出身,亦有實習新制的例子可舉,但在此不適合)
2009-06-12 @ 16:10
迴響 from: 提傑小子 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/IrishBoy
嘿嘿我又來了
我覺得大家對這個議題提出的問題就是
那免費試用期滿了再換一批不就好了
但是
不講企業所認為的新人容易拖慢工作效率
如果你真的做的好可以融入公司
你真的有才的話
公司會捨不得一個月多花萬把塊用你嗎
一個還過得去的企業不至於缺少這點資本吧
我覺得真的關鍵還是在自己啦
如果真的沒有和市場其他人才的差異性
那勇不勇者應該也都找不工作
是說
如果你真的有一把兩把三把刷子的話
"做白工"在市場上是一個會被看到的好機會
反正就真的不要怪別人
自己能力的培養真的比較重要

還是自己的想法
想轟炸的可以再來一下ok的:)
2009-06-12 @ 16:56
迴響 from: nowhereman [訪問者]
*****
建議朱豪宅發動個數百人到新店寶中路119號之一10樓的查號台銀行集體應徵, 請楊董御賜免費工作.
2009-06-12 @ 17:07
迴響 from: 小P [訪問者] · http://www.yahoo.com.tw
對了,其實我是在網路新聞才連結到這裡的…

http://udn.com/NEWS/LIFE/LIF6/4958087.shtml
2009-06-12 @ 17:33
迴響 from: Nowe [訪問者]
勇者!
勇者!
勇者傳說~~
最KUSO的線上游戲
2009-06-12 @ 19:27
迴響 from: Noel00 [訪問者]
學徒制還有包吃住

當義工什麼都自己出
會請這種義工真的公司有料給人學嗎?

免肖想啦
拿你當耗材用而已

2009-06-12 @ 19:44
迴響 from: 5566 [訪問者]
最夯求職流程:
義工 -> 工讀生 -> 約聘 -> 正職
(10年) (10年) (10年?) (還活著嗎?)
2009-06-12 @ 19:54
迴響 from: 台灣人妻 [訪問者] Email · http://sweetywife.pixnet.net/blog/post/23763814
*****
台灣人妻呼籲所有社會新鮮人~寄履歷到104去
表明你不需要薪水 只求到104工作 快去當104的勇者啦!!
2009-06-12 @ 20:24
迴響 from: Calvin [訪問者]
*****
在鐵支銀行工作有薪水嗎??

為了貫徹企業精神!鐵支銀行的員工都沒拿薪水?

起新2.2w??
2009-06-12 @ 21:01
迴響 from: Calvin [訪問者]
*****
Sorry~

剛剛沒看到鐵支銀行真的還有提出"不支薪"義工計畫

恩...

這真是個貫徹企業精神的好公司!!
2009-06-12 @ 21:05
迴響 from: nowhereman [訪問者]
*****
那個從查號台銀行的ip上來亂的, 妳要趕快響應妳老闆楊董的號召, 主動表明七月起不支薪水工作並繳回今年前半年的薪水以免費為楊董效命啊!
2009-06-12 @ 22:11
迴響 from: 路人a [訪問者]
提傑兄
你的有才說還真看企業良心阿
我是沒辦法否認世界上有好人這件事啦
要把世界分成有才無才,請先正視不管上面怎麼ㄍㄞ草莓族,普通努力普通才能的最多
阿是要多有才才有薪水領
普通人活該領不到薪水?還是期待上司英明
還是這無薪工作的鑑別度?

沒有,唯一能確定的是這個月他發不發薪水

"因為我幹跟別人一樣的事,一樣的努力
所以我這個月不確定有沒有薪水"
看清楚喔,不是多或少,是有跟沒有

你說有才就不用怕?但實際上你有沒有才
是另一個人決定的,甚至不是偷懶打混跟認真工作之間的差別,你說的是才

嘛,要這麼相信人也沒有關係
不過我會更想找至少肯發便當的工作

2009-06-12 @ 22:44
迴響 from: pink [訪問者] · http://hipinklady.pixnet.net/blog
****-

不知道楊先生的小孩幾歲了?要不要工作?應該不用受到這種對待吧?若禁得起,是不是在不支薪工作期間靠楊老爸養呢? 這種小孩還算幸運,很多小孩從念書就背付學貸和家庭經濟壓力的,不是含著金銀湯匙出生,一定要有正常收入才能支付日常開銷,怎麼忍受不支薪工作?誰來養他們?

勞方不用付費就能找工作;資方要付費登廣告,想也知道這些人力資源公司是站在哪方偏多,e04公司也是要賺錢養員工,當然要捧捧金主... 景氣這麼差,為了鼓勵公司多任用新鮮人,不知道e04公司願不願意帶頭讓資方「免費」刊登廣告半年一載呢?另一方面,e04公司的員工自己也要有心理準備自己的工作很快不保,因為你(妳)的薪水和新鮮人相比實在太多了,很多工作職位都是可以被取代,永遠可以用0元請到人,何必用你(妳)。這些試工得到工作的人也別高興太早,公司食髓之味後也不太可能用過去老鳥的薪資水平給薪給你(妳),縱使物價上升。一年過去,你(妳)終究會被下一代免費試工的0元工資比下去,誰還要任用你(妳)?....真是一個可怕的惡性循環,苦的永遠是勞方,而M型社會的貧富差距只會越來越大! 會不會惡性到最後都活不下去了,乾脆走回頭路變成共產社會,起碼齊頭式平等,大家都有飯吃,而不是只有肥貓吃到撐!

出來社會打混99%的人是為了糊一口飯過生活,再這麼亂搞下去,全部的勞方(新鮮人也是會變老鳥的)的薪資水平都會被打低,天下的父母也千萬別指望孩子養老,唉,恐怕老人也得出來工作,畢竟年輕一代根本養不起自己、小孩,更何況是照顧父母呢...

2009-06-12 @ 22:58
迴響 from: 十幾年前我就是勇者 [訪問者]
在台灣當勇者的下場,只會是砲灰被宰的命運
台灣職場就是謊言充斥的官僚文化,面試時你的真話,往往會被面試官打槍,您的作事能力比主管強你會陣亡,你辛苦放棄自己的時間為公司做出提昇公司效能營運改善計畫會讓老闆對你產生恐懼危機感,而會直接讓你從公司馬上畢業,我就是勇者但是我在台灣的企業官僚職場文化上,是直接陣亡的下場,讓我相信資方企業的善良、大度、情義,哈!倒不如乾脆讓我相信阿扁沒貪污算了
2009-06-12 @ 23:11
迴響 from: 小夏 [訪問者]
****-
支持三四五六七年級找不到工作的同學,明天開始進入e04展開勇者的行徑。
支持包括街友、畢業生、放無薪假的無業大軍不支薪進入e04工作,讓e04善盡社會責任,管吃管喝管住管上網,再造台灣經濟奇蹟~福氣啦!
2009-06-12 @ 23:45
迴響 from: 蓮娜 [訪問者] Email
*----
我有看到有人說 之前朱大自己跑去出版社翻魔戒行為 也是一種勇者策略 我覺得有點怪怪的 但又不能反駁 說不出怪在那 有人能告訴我怪在那嗎 -------------------- 我看到這一段話有點想法.... 其實勇者與愚者,往往只在一線間。 如果朱大是毛遂自薦去出版社要求要翻譯魔戒,但有要求拿到應得的酬勞。那就是真正的勇者。 但是如果照楊先生的建議作法,跑去企業要求『不支薪』的工作付出,那就是愚者。但是楊先生用似是而非的言論將愚者行為包裝成勇者企圖影響新鮮人判斷罷了... 如果求職者本身沒有生計上的問題,或是本身已經有固定工作,行有餘力要在其他地方付出心力勞力才能而不要求報酬,那當然是勇者行為。 但是如果不靠工作酬勞就無法過生活的人,也用這種不支薪方式去徵求工作,那就是顯然的愚者了!連基本生活都過不下去,其他都是屁了。 所以楊先生在說這些話之前,到底有沒有考慮過勞方的實際需求和狀況啊?~囧
2009-06-13 @ 00:37
迴響 from: 蓮娜 [訪問者]
支持三四五六七年級找不到工作的同學,明天開始進入e04展開勇者的行徑。
支持包括街友、畢業生、放無薪假的無業大軍不支薪進入e04工作,讓e04善盡社會責任,管吃管喝管住管上網,再造台灣經濟奇蹟~福氣啦!
------------------------------
小夏網友,別忘了還要實踐楊先生說的『可先選一家心目中的理想企業,分析該公司弱項,帶著提案自告奮勇不拿薪水為公司效勞。


我們為了不辜負楊先生期望,徹底實踐他的建言,所以我們熬夜努力找出E04一百條弱項吧~XD
2009-06-13 @ 00:42
迴響 from: 蓮娜 [訪問者]
*----
首先 我想說的是 這位楊先生所提出無薪工的概念也並不是新鮮事.

大約十年前我還在台灣唸書的時候.我們最後一年是在醫院實習(非醫護科系). 當時不但要付給學校學費.還得到醫院當白工.半毛薪水都沒!也沒有醫院飯票! 當時的我對這份工作也沒興趣.
所以有沒有機會留下來當正式員工對我來說也不重要. 所以.我只是想說說.這種無薪工的想法.不是在不景氣的時候才會出現! 只要對坳(勞資)關係存在的一天.互坳制度就永遠會進步更新!

後來我來了美國.在這裡無薪/有薪intern都是蠻多見的.
大學在學生或畢業生都會經由學校的管道.聯絡上有需要的公司.大部分公司都會說無薪工作有三個月試用期.到時候會決定是否留人下來.(我個人認為這種事情頂多一個月就知道了.爬帶才會傻傻的被坳三個月).不過.我的爬帶同學也真的被坳了三個月.撐不下去趕快找新工作走人)

不過.有沒有人最後真的得到了正式工作的機會勒?
答案是有的.我在台灣醫院一起實習的同學.最後真的得到了正是工作機會. 在美國的同學們也有直接留下來工作的.

至於.朱大所說的奴隸制度.我認為這是見仁見智.
有本錢坳下去的人.拿時間換經驗也不錯!

如果公司只是用請免費工的心態對人.我想這種公司大概也不值得留戀.趕快拍屁股走人

如果公司肯教.自己又肯學!免費的職訓到哪裡找勒?

---------------------
我想說的是......實習和免費工是完全不同的東西啊,大大!

實習是真的會丟東西讓你學,但是免費工你保證公司一定傾盡全力教導你?還是只是利用你?這要想清楚判斷清楚啊.....

況且實習制度是由雇方建立出的制度,他在建立這個制度的同時,當然要給某種程度的保障。

但是,由勞方主動提出不支薪。請問我們拿什麼去換企業談我們想要的籌碼、理想、策略?

有些公司會要員工簽切結書,要求離職後多久期間內不得從事相關工作,然後他又遲遲不給你正式任用承諾,請問大夥兒打算就這般耗下去嗎?

說來說去吃虧的事就是吃虧,沒理由被人強了還要跟對方說謝謝哩
2009-06-13 @ 00:55
迴響 from: Beelzebub [訪問者] · http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/anruse/
*****
看來有一些勇者也贊成無薪上班
還奢望企業主會看到這些勇者的"才能"
然後捧著薪水來聘他(她)

那麼就讓敝人
以約莫十年的社會工作經驗
稍稍講一下遇過、看過的老闆嘴臉好了

敝人目前工作的公司
已經三年沒發年終
連三節禮金和獎金都沒有喔
不過啊,老闆前年"買"了新廠房和新公司
(所以他說沒錢發年終)
去年過年的時候換了一台6百多萬的敞篷跑車
(所以可以想見他也沒錢發年終)

啊哈哈哈,真是有良心的老闆啊
我是不敢說台灣所有老闆都這樣啦
不過就我遇過的幾個都差不多啦
賺錢了就先自己爽,還管你下面的人?
跟他要個福利還是加薪就靠北景氣不好?
有差這麼多?

政府給企業的福利這位老闆有利用到
幾個月前,突然來了十幾個新人吧
派他們做一些無關緊要的事情(類似打雜)
幾個月後,這些新人都不見了

肥了誰我是不知道啦
搞不好有減稅也說不定

啊訓練新人還不是舊員工訓練?
難不成有人期望有甚麼專業的職前訓練?

啊你是腦殘電影小說漫畫看太多
才會傻傻地和現實分不清楚嗎?

好傻好天真

補充一下
我公司這位老闆只會偶爾來看看
開開會說說一些降低錯誤率就發獎金的屁話
幹他媽的一次都沒發過
(錯誤率降到0他搞不好還會說以前怎麼做不到)

會把老闆的屁話當真的
我看你腦子才有病

我工作是為了賺錢
e04你他媽的勇者策略
怎麼不先叫你的兒子女兒去當打雜工?
2009-06-13 @ 03:22
迴響 from: 提傑小子 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/IrishBoy
好吧我發現
可能是因為自己相關所學的關係
因為念傳播方面的科系
聽說到的故事都是那些履歷表寫"我要幹掉創意總監"就被請去面試
然後後來真的幹掉創意總監的童話故事
還有一對人搶著在大咖們來學校演講時讓他們注意
好讓他們願意施捨我們機會去他們公司端茶和影印東西吧

應該真的是因為產業不同
畢竟我現在也還沒畢業
到時候就知道了哈:D
2009-06-13 @ 04:05
迴響 from: 爬帶同學的同學 [訪問者]
感謝各位的指教.
當然實習工跟免錢工是不一樣的
也許我拿出在台灣實習的例子有點錯誤. 但是我想說的是.在美國這裡是有免錢的intern.
不是單指經由學校介紹去的實習生.也有待業或就業中的人去面試後拿到的實習機會.當然我不是說一定要把國外的制度套回去台灣.
但是看看美帝資本主義下鬼制度哪一些台灣還沒開始用勒? 派遣.外包.這都早就不是新鮮事了.這種事情本來就是看個人.要是要我去免費作三個月我也活不下去.我只是想說朱大跟104兩邊的說法.都有可以作為求職者參考的地方.這種事情沒有絕對的.找到好機會就衝吧.

2009-06-13 @ 04:41
迴響 from: 白夢 [訪問者] · http://blog.xuite.net/whitedream/blog/
其實我覺得是好人策略的延伸,好人跟奴隸有時只是一線之隔。

http://blog.xuite.net/whitedream/blog/24778826
2009-06-13 @ 09:58
迴響 from: 台勞 [訪問者]
說到台灣的資方
敝公司今年讓所有人同體時艱接受為期一年的無薪假規畫
因為去年第四季虧損
結果今年一結算,馬的去年整年還是有賺啊eps>0咧
那是不是公司還沒賠錢,員工就先賠了?
名義上放無薪假,工作還是一樣多
加班沒錢叫責任制
更不爽的是去年底還花大錢併購
有賺時多的放老板口袋
沒賺時叫員工同體時艱從口袋拿出來挺公司


2009-06-13 @ 10:05
迴響 from: wesly [訪問者]
米國這邊真的有幾乎不支薪的intern,但是多半是因為讓薪水和福利保險打平的關係。更何況一般正常公司提供intern機會只能給在校學生。已經畢業的則是參加apprentice program之類的。當然資方很清楚,我給你一個apprentice時薪這麼低,你隨時都有走掉的可能。正常的公司如果要以contractor或是正式staff position任用,薪水和福利一定得比照各州法律規定有最低工資。
惡德商社全世界都有,米國也不例外。當然,我們這種幹外勞的也很清楚,該是你的就盡量爭取,然後避免去那種小部啦機有很會凹人的私人公司。
2009-06-13 @ 10:31
迴響 from: simon [訪問者]
*****
104楊董的說錯話、到後面不認錯、外加躲起來放冷箭的動作,讓我不禁聯想到:白目小孩子打架打輸、躲回家往外扔石頭…
2009-06-13 @ 18:41
迴響 from: Triad [訪問者]

看到回應說坐牢恐怕都比當個奴隸好,
就突然白日夢夢到一個小說情節:

某某人力公司老闆及家屬,
不斷地遭到不固定的人士搶劫傷害,
犯人們皆不約而同地表示,
在某次被倡導新鮮人奴隸化的風潮後,
貧窮的新鮮人們為了爭一口飯吃,
最後往往不得不選擇這樣的手段...。


另外,人苯表示:
「大家應該用愛與關懷感化這群失業者,
他們搶到累了自然就不搶了..」

夢到這就醒了。



2009-06-13 @ 19:50
迴響 from: 這傢伙也說要無薪 [訪問者]
月薪2萬2太低?蔡宏圖:符合職涯規劃 沒錢都要去 ♡
大學畢業生怕失業,根據人力銀行的調查,應屆畢業生平均期待月薪只有2萬2千元。國泰金控董事長蔡宏圖在台大表示,畢業生的薪水多寡固然重要,但不代表全部,如果工作符合職涯規劃,起步階段就算沒薪水也要去。


大環境不景氣已有一陣子,今年的應屆大學畢業生似乎都有心理準備,根據調查,自我期待月薪只有2萬2。


國泰金控董事長蔡宏圖6月8日參與捐贈台大法學院新館啟用典禮,被媒體問到這個問題,他給畢業的學弟妹建議,學校教育最重要是要培養邏輯思考,應用在各種領域。至於,畢業薪水的多寡,蔡宏圖認為,薪水不代表全部,最重要的是,一個人對自己的職涯規劃。


富邦金控董事長蔡明忠也贊同,薪水沒有高低問題,重要的是畢業生對未來職涯是否做好準備。不過,一開始聽到畢業生自我期待起薪只有2萬2,蔡明忠感到有點驚訝,認為的確太低。


身為台大法律系畢業校友的蔡宏圖、蔡明忠、富邦集團總裁蔡萬才,皆棄法從商,他們一致認為,法律系畢業出路不一定要侷限在法律行業。
2009-06-13 @ 20:03
迴響 from: 無患子 [訪問者]
府兵制聽起來很完美
其實從唐高宗、武后的時候就開始敗壞啦~
因為太累(平時務農,戰時上場)
且賦稅越來越重,種田都來不及還當兵
所以逃亡越來越多
到最後都沒人要來輪番當值了
搞得李隆基改採募兵制,弄一個「彍騎」
(今之派遣乎?)
上估狗搜一下府兵 敗壞就很多資料了
2009-06-13 @ 21:22
迴響 from: 一步接一步退 [訪問者]
*****
行政院青輔會提供的實習機會,是企業與政府分攤實習生的薪資支出,沒什麼免費替企業工作這種荒謬的事。

企業可以付法定最低薪資,但是不得藉實習試圖獲取免費勞力,因為這擺明是免費吃午餐。你可以到餐廳吃午餐卻不付錢的嗎? 詐欺罪也。



2009-06-14 @ 00:48
迴響 from: 9527 [訪問者]
form:lin6p
個人有幾點補充
1.現在剛考到律師執照的人,已經有光作事不領薪的情形開始發生(聽說越往北部越嚴重),理由真的是因為感謝律師事務所給他實習的機會。而且就算過了實習期,起薪也高不到那裡,所以已經不算是"三師"之一了!
身為律師事務所的9527,有些事要說明一下:考上三師之中律師真的沒啥了不起,現在錄取率到8%!去年好像考上400個。要是好好念、認真每天念個12小時,一、二年內你還考不上!或許你真的是沒天份做這一行!(雖然我老闆也考了三次)
考上還要律師工會訓練一個月,事務所實習五個月才能正式出道(意指可以正式當訴訟代理人出庭,以律師身份執業)但考上不代表你有那個能力寫狀紙、打官司。實務跟理論是兩件事,但事實上實務是的確需要紮實的課本法學基礎,但你考上執照不但表你就融會貫通、懂得實務操作。以下是一個夢:夢中來了一個剛剛從學校畢業實習律師,他的薪水跟助理也沒差多少K,但他的工作就是一直坐在辦公室看卷宗跟寫狀紙、找資料。但是他寫出的狀紙都被老闆丟在廢紙筒,老闆還要幫他重寫。因為法學理論不對,搞錯訴訟標的,引用法律條文不對,遣詞用字不對。所以老闆只好一天到晚叫他看卷宗查資料,也不能把工作交給他做。如果有人一個月給你2.X K,你只要每天坐在那吹冷氣上網找資料、看卷宗,你幹不幹?你是老闆這錢給的下去嗎?重點來了,五個月後他未必還會在原實習事務所工作,有的人實習完就跑!身為一個低等9527要做的不管風吹日曬有跑法院送公文、做強制執行、跑查封鑑價、撰寫簡易書狀等…. 領的也是查不多2.X K的薪水,你是老闆要用哪一個?好笑的事,9527的工作實習律師不一定會做!!!X你老木!這就是為啥很多事務所不願意給實習律師薪水的原因,你說這要怪誰?怪老闆不願投資實習律師,還是實習律師資質越來越差,投資報酬率太低?一個月花2.X K的錢和時間訓練,也不知道要幾年能成材,他成才之後還跟你要求要客源、還要一個月10K的薪水,幹!所以敝人今年卸下9527工作,去準備國家考試!不是所有工作都可以套在朱大說的論點,雖然老娘也不贊成楊基基說的話,但每一個行業都有它的獨特性並不能混為一談。
2009-06-14 @ 02:16
迴響 from: Beelzebub [訪問者] · http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/anruse/
*****
"蔡宏圖認為,薪水不代表全部..."
那我辛苦工作幹嗎?作爽的嗎?
那你的薪水要不要捐出來?
不要以為平民百姓都像你們這些有錢人一樣
錢賺飽了沒事幹,想一些剝削老百姓的濫企劃

"身為台大法律系畢業校友的蔡宏圖、蔡明忠、富邦集團總裁蔡萬才,皆棄法從商.."
這幾個不就他媽的為了賺錢才去從商
難不成是做興趣的?
真是做興趣的,錢怎不捐出來
幫助需要幫助的人?

我看國小的愛心媽媽都比這幾個商人
對社會還要有幫助

台大畢業的都不知道企業主對社會有所謂的
社會責任嗎?

生涯規劃是等肚子填飽才會去想的事情
2009-06-14 @ 03:10
迴響 from: 心有戚戚焉 [訪問者]
*****
看了朱老大的文章,聽了朱老大在飛碟電台的訪問,
真的是感觸良多,不過,這個社會就是存在這樣的矛盾,
套個簡的思考模式,老闆永遠希望成本越低越好,
員工希望薪水越高越好,其實對於楊基寬說的,
我真的完全不苟同,因為人只要有一次經驗就會延續這樣的法則繼續下去,
當老闆發現有個"免費的人力資源"時,他就不會再去"重金禮聘"的"禮賢下士"。
包括我,身邊有太多的朋友有個最大的感觸,
求職時,一開始談定的薪水才是最重要的,千萬別奢望公司會有加薪的機會,
什麼加薪都是騙人的,加個五百元、一千元,一易在哪裡?那純粹是摸摸頭的行為而已。
培養實力,好好的跟公司談判吧!
2009-06-15 @ 08:06
迴響 from: 一個國中畢業生-Max [訪問者] · http://g30601.pixnet.net/blog
*****
聽完飛碟
覺得你講的很對
資方越來越過分啦
大學畢業生素質當然也是問題之ㄧ
但那套勇者策略我覺得蠻蠢的
不太可能 套用在現在新鮮人身上

(可以拜託一些文字圖片調整一下嗎?)
(整個一長條,看了很累~)
(早在2008年10月31號的世新大學共同課程委員會中,104銀行的李明倫營運長就說了至理名言啦!)
(上述文字下面的圖片即是)
(謝謝你了!)
2009-06-15 @ 08:31
迴響 from: Colin Wen [訪問者]
再次回文
發現很多人 提到實習
但是就像其他前輩所說的 實習跟勇者策略是很大的不一樣
因為實習真的是學東西 勇者策略聽起來就是朱大說的奴隸制度

如果經濟真的不好工作不好找 應該是要像企業主喊 增加學生或是社會新鮮人的實習機會 這樣對兩方面資方勞方都有幫助

就算當初楊董心裡面是想的實習 但是講出來的勇者策略明明就不一樣
如果真的是這樣 就道歉說 之前沒表達清楚引起誤會
其實真的意思是要企業增加實習名額
這樣不就好了
但是還在那邊硬ㄠ 就....
2009-06-15 @ 09:34
迴響 from: Max [訪問者]
其實朱大您不也是一堆不用付薪水的"義工"在幫你做牛做馬才能過得如此嗎?

打著開放的名義! 圖的是啥? 不是錢就是名啦!

其實說穿了, 還不是半斤八兩!
有種就朱大你一個人從頭到尾自己翻譯開放課程!
不然乾脆付點錢給這些所謂的"莪工",這樣他翻譯的品質可能會好一點,不然這翻譯的品質看得真是慘不忍睹!



Lucifer:哈欠,圍魏救趙要不要換個新說詞啦,大家盡量排隊來抹黑,不要急喔,最好開個記者會把事情搞大一點!
2009-06-15 @ 16:11
迴響 from: 廉傑 [訪問者]
基本上聽一場演講可以粗淺知道演講者的性格,學恆他ok ^____^

況且OOPS的志工也要自己願意才能加入,Max
OOPS可不是以營利為前提,是為資源共享,
亂抹黑的你們,也只能在電腦前,敲敲鍵盤,按按滑鼠,對社會和這顆地球有啥貢獻?
2009-06-15 @ 23:32
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
題外:

  為了彌補就學時學非所用,俺這陣子使用了交大的開放式課程,小補一下,功效不大,畢竟有了問題也沒什麼人可以問。

  不知道為什麼用火狐看ppt瀏覽器就是會掛掉...orz
2009-06-15 @ 23:36
迴響 from: 阿米 [訪問者]
今天上管理學老師也講到104他在成大的演講

他直接說:「狗屁,你要低薪水去學事情,去華碩幹吧!!一個月正職工程師一萬八,比工讀生多兩千塊
想升職當組長的話,幹個十年八年等上面有人退休、等到同梯次的都沒人才輪的到你,這十年八年請繼續領你的一萬八吧!!保證你學的夠多又夠久」
2009-06-16 @ 00:14
迴響 from: 李目白 [訪問者]
"一個月正職工程師一萬八,比工讀生多兩千塊"

小工廠技術員起新也有個兩萬五...

馬的逼現在是怎樣...
2009-06-16 @ 00:35
迴響 from: 阿米 [訪問者]
華碩在業界是出名的小氣,而且公司是採取年資制度

所以你正職進去的工程師,是由那裡的工讀生幫你員工訓練,而且工讀生幹的比你久,他叫你幹麻你不能反抗(一萬八還是責任制薪水)

最可憐的是,身為部門的組長請助理申請員工停車,助理第一句絕對不是說:「好」

而是問你:「你幹多久了」

如果你幹的沒他久,申請停車位請等半年
如果你幹的比他久,一個禮拜就幫你用好

想免費學習嗎?華碩絕對歡迎免費的勞工幫它幹

這就是最典型的奴隸公司

我不知道楊先生秉持是什麼想法
但是勇者策略不如說是自殺策略

哪間公司不希望勞工越便宜越好
哪間公司不希望員工能力要很好

很多公司都希望馬兒好,馬兒也不吃草

真正有道德或是為了員工著想的公司有多少?

講難聽點,一個管理者讓他管間公司20年就很了不起了

這20年撈的錢也夠他度過晚年,他就爽透了

誰會在乎撈錢的手法產生後續效應問題?
員工死是死員工,老闆荷苞賺滿就好了

充其量這只是道德的問題

楊先生請不要換了位子也換了腦袋



2009-06-16 @ 09:46
迴響 from: nale [訪問者]
那個104的女的 叫什麼丘文人的
也曾在節目中宣揚"衣錠要比老板晚下班"理論
這算什麼提升員工身價的狗屁方法!
不僅壓榨勞工 "假加班"更是虛偽的可以!
號稱第一大人力銀行,最後只會幫著企業欺壓勞工...
104的高層們,果然換了位子腦子也壞了 心也黑了
2009-06-16 @ 13:53
迴響 from: GGYY [訪問者] · http://ggyy.com
*****
完全贊成部落格主的立論,
一個人成功了,
放的屁都會很香很濃,
媒體也只會追棒;
想想當年那出賣員工與股東的博達葉小姐,
出事前還不是在媒體上大放闕詞,
大講自己的成功經驗,
自己工作多努力多厲害,
原來都是騙出來的

楊先生創立104的初衷也許不錯,
但賺錢與成功的背後,
會不會讓人變成高高在上的"老闆"了?

如果有願意長期免費工作的"勇者",
麻煩跟我聯絡,
我可以幫各位勇者安排長工的學習成長機會...

有空, 來瞧瞧敝人寫的:

台灣上班族對僱主滿意度達到百分之百
http://ggyy.com/read.php?tid=768

公司組織/日常運作/團隊合作的真諦--員工必讀
http://ggyy.com/read.php?tid=388
2009-06-23 @ 09:38
迴響 from: Ray [訪問者]
Lucifer,

留了名字跟mail,我猜你還是想不起我是哪棵蔥,哈。

多年前在雜誌社,跟你互相幹醮中大央大校規簡稱、幹醮某game某雜誌的時候,雖然小弟也是編輯,不過我不是透過面試,而是去圖書館找貓大爺的電話號碼,直接撥去找貓大爺說想去實習實習。

啊,實習奴工還要談什麼薪水跟分紅?幸好,那個雜誌社正是你形容的「白X公司」肯要我這奴工,不然我就慘了。

不一定要有什麼高潔的理念,我覺得在自己想要的、喜歡的環境,就算當個無料奴工學學經驗也很有趣,這跟尊嚴更沒有什麼關係(窩在學校或補習班當米蟲也不見得尊嚴到哪...)。

想說的是,難道自己上門找公司,只因為這說法是e04鼓吹的,就變得很可恥或不可行嗎?

即使很多年沒再跟你接觸,我還記得你當年還沒因魔戒飛黃騰達前的屌/鳥樣(笑),以及講話、穿著的style。這些當奴工時的記憶跟收穫,遠比字面上增加爽度的批評還好。

當然,窩在家裡吃爸媽喝爸媽躲避風險,也是很了不起的策略。只是,有多少爸媽可以撐到骨頭都被吸乾?景氣對學生或年輕人不好,難道對高齡的父母就慈悲了?

如果我們的言論,只是把責任轉嫁給別人,那麼不如想想看有沒有更好的建議。你說的國防役是不錯的,或者像義工之類的也都很好,可是,不知道為什麼,好像大家都一股腦批e04、很爽的可以當米蟲,卻忘了你的說法另一個重要的部分?是典型的逃避責任思考模式嗎?

上來胡言亂語一番,想來不至於得罪(若真得罪也沒辦法啦)。從報上看到你帶球結婚的消息也很久了,一直沒來打個招呼,在這還是向你說聲「恭喜」囉:)
2009-06-23 @ 12:41
迴響 from: 樓上的 [訪問者]
*****
請問樓上的ray,是鐵支銀行的打手嗎....你那是很久以前吧,現在的台灣搞不好不管用了,因為台灣黑心boss變多了,至少鐵支銀行的人力派遣,是真的不行的,有排擠效應的
2009-06-24 @ 23:03
迴響 from: 系色學 [訪問者]
看了大家這麼多留言,在下感覺很多人都被怒氣沖昏了頭。其實不曉得大家有沒有注意到─若是說延畢的是「懦夫」那麼那些所謂的「勇者」又是什麼??不就只是「米蟲」嗎??勇敢的「不支薪工作」結果帶來的是什麼??不是帶給父母更大的負擔??辛苦上班沒薪水?那麼請問你哪來的錢「加油吃飯付房租」?到最後還不是要父母養?那不才是真正的懦夫嗎?不才是真正的米蟲?這就叫做真正的「吃裡扒外」!!拿父母的錢養你自己,再用你的勞力去養企業!到最後就變成拿妳父母的錢去養企業!!這個才是「死羊」真正的「陰謀」!!只剝削年輕人已經不滿足不了他們的胃口了,他們現在的腦筋已經動到這些大學生的「父母」身上啦!!所以那些根本不是什麼勇者,只是一些愚蠢的「米蟲」、「匹夫」、「莽夫」而已!大家懂了嗎?所以說,在YAHOO上看到104可恨的廣告時,請大家不要忘記─您是要當一個「聰明的懦夫」,還是要當一個「愚蠢的米蟲(勇者?)」
若是說讀書也算米蟲,那我只能說您脫離學生時代太久了!當學生雖然經濟能力不好,但是「打工機會」卻遠比社會上的「正職工作機會」來得多!而且學生的各種優惠也確實可以減輕很多負擔(公車都是學生票便宜啊!!)而且當學生還有「學生平安保險」!比起不支薪然後發生意外,來得有保障多了!!!如果今天不支薪,然後發生了意外,請問誰要來負責??你楊董事長會負責嗎??那些吃人不吐骨頭的企業會負責嗎??別傻啦!!沒薪水的傢伙根本不算他們的員工,要他們負責,做夢!所以說大家看看,笑笑就好!以他的立場,當然要有眾多的「勇者」在職場上廝殺他們人力仲介才能賺得飽飽飽啊!!
2009-06-24 @ 23:47
迴響 from: 針對來亂的人 by zero [訪問者]
*****
看完之後,我只能說,今天e04銀行。

如果做的好,做的對,那網友和朱大是不會出來靠貝的。

我只覺的那個來留言的人真可憐,你連是非都不會分了。被e04銀行給洗腦了喔。

還是你為了活下去,混口飯吃,領e04的錢,不得不把自已的人格給賣了呢!?

你父母,知道你這樣,一定感到很傷心~~~~~~

2009-07-01 @ 21:12
迴響 from: 昂貴的台灣勞工 [訪問者]
其實,這件事就讓我想起"永不妥協"這部電影,我有能力做好工作,我就有立場要求薪水跟福利,所以,我在一次面試機會中,直接了當的告訴面試我的主管我開的條件,之後,我在一次跟主管聊天時,主管說我很敢開,比我老闆的上限高1000元,我就說"我是照行情開,而且我有能力把事做好",之後主管就沒有再對我提起這件事!
無償幫老闆做事,我個人是認為此風不可長!台灣的老闆都已經胃口大到非碩士生不聘,就不能再讓他們那麼爽,請人不用錢,又可以賺錢...別忘了,他們是您的員工,您應該有幫他保勞健保吧?小心不要留把柄啊!
p.s.我知道的,掃廁所的阿姨一天都還有800啊!只是每週休1天!
2009-07-31 @ 00:59
迴響 from: 天人 [訪問者]
馬後砲馬後砲馬後砲馬後砲馬後砲



剛好董英文又很好的............動物
2009-09-22 @ 22:53
迴響 from: 蠻牛觀世音 [訪問者] Email
朱大哥,常常喜歡看你的文章,瞭解一些網友們的或是和報章媒體不同的想法。但是我昨天聽到一件讓我很悲傷的故事:

同學的弟弟去年丟了工作回家蹲,丟工作的原因是他派駐大陸後被大陸人欺負,老闆在台灣幫他滅火了快半年,忍受不了他無法獨立處理這些問題,最後請他走路。他認為工作還被人欺負,所以這樣的公司不待也罷。

到這邊都還OK

回台後,弟弟每天待在家裡上網,年邁的母親也不懂他到底關在房間做什麼(就是標準宅男),只知道他沒有再找工作,積蓄近空,因此老母親每天以淚洗面,一直唸弟弟,弟弟為了躲避母親,每天上網到清晨,白天睡覺。

在海外半工半讀書的姐姐看不下去,幫弟弟把履歷表寫好,讓弟弟有個開始。就這樣過了兩個月,姐姐問弟弟工作找得怎麼樣,有沒有把履歷丟104? 弟弟很生氣的說,這些人力銀行都是要幫忙壓榨勞工,他不屑丟履歷到人力銀行,說完就掛了姊姊的電話。

老母親不懂網路世界,只知道辛苦拉拔一個兒子三十幾歲,人很好,很有禮貌,但沒有工作,沒有目標,沒有積蓄,體重過重,甚至連大門都不出去。

故事到這裡,請問朱大哥,你覺得以你今天在網路的影響力,你怎麼看這樣一位無助的母親?

這樣的例子不是一個人而已,我身邊也有另一位五年沒工作的宅男,也是如此。也許他們在網路世界都有一片天,但在現實人生他們是依附在父母無奈的支持下而能這樣生活。

我不是說你提出的質疑不對。

當一個人用你的想法當作他的藉口,當作這個社會不公不義所以他不用努力的說詞,

豬大是否在提出質疑後,或許也該說一下solution 吧!

畢竟,鼓勵人心,也需要配合方法。

2009-09-25 @ 13:07
迴響 from: 阿暖 [訪問者]
樓上那自導自演真是丟人現眼啊
2009-10-10 @ 13:45
迴響 from: 蠻牛觀世音 [訪問者]
這個蠻牛觀世音八成又是人力銀行的人,反正大家現在努力讓人力銀行到閉,它愈講愈讓它倒,反正垃圾一個
2009-11-01 @ 08:02
迴響 from: 還有沒講的 [訪問者]
還要丟履歷到104,別家不行嗎?丟到其他的人力銀行....這明顯是104的人,算了她也不會承認
2009-11-01 @ 08:05
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從這樣看,就知道勇者楊,也不過是個平凡人,他跟他的員工,不乖乖接受批評,老是怕別人不投履歷到人力銀行以致倒閉,老是來這自說自話,做一堆辯解,只會讓人印象愈來愈差,要提解決方法也不是朱大,而是垃圾的人力銀行,不是很會干擾行情嗎,還是對勞工正面就不會了?所以說你垃圾嘛,一點也不中立,懂了吧.垃圾銀行
2009-11-01 @ 08:13
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大家找工作不是只有人力銀行才行,用其他管道吧,千萬不要因為一時氣餒,就一直待在家裡,進修也可以啊,國父革命11次, 那麼多次,這不過是要賺錢而已,沒人說一定要當奴隸去幫人家做事,自己擺路邊攤也可以啊,只要可以賺錢,不犯法,什麼都可以啊,千萬不要待在家裡跟垃圾銀行賭氣,等有點成就再來圍堵垃圾銀行,就可以了
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府兵制 (阿~好懷念歷史課本)
真的是一個超棒的制度(如果我是老闆)
2010-01-06 @ 15:10
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這裡可以噍國罵嗎?我看你祖公外嬤十八代臭雞排生你這ㄟ俗拉姓楊ㄟ,事實證明104跟其他企業一樣,因為最近姓邱的被無預警FIRE,所以慶祝E04成為最大的人力PIMP。
不過無法抗力自然是無力施為...
他的言行舉止就像在幫企業老闆吹喇叭,而且不收費,因為後面會有人捧錢來請他拉皮條。他自己都會說國情不同,難道沒想過在台灣幫人作免錢工作的下場,就是要害人及被整,創業成功就換了腦袋原來是真的!
2010-01-07 @ 01:23
迴響 from: anti-e04 [訪問者]
最近e04的總監被fire了,又是一個自我感覺良好的例子

老是在電視上看她一附高高在上的態度大放闕詞,跟我們這些失業勞工"傳教"
一附拯救我們的嘴臉,看了很不舒服
現在她失業了,而且是被裁員的,證明她過去的言論統統不可信
只是一個自我感覺良好,自我中心的人
雙學位又怎樣,公司不需要你,社會不需要你,國家不需要你,就是得滾蛋

我有看那集新聞挖挖挖,前狗仔教母許聖梅充分反省自己過去傷人甚重,過去狂妄自大
但我絲毫沒看見這位雙學位的前總監有反省之意
背著公司在外兼職賺外快(賣T-shirt)本來就是大忌,被開除只是剛好而已,
還大言不慚說這不是主要原因,還有其他"更重要的原因",似乎暗示自己遭奸人構陷,或功高震主..
請反省,你並沒有那麼優秀!
公司開除你單純就是因為你對公司已經是負數,所以才要坎你

無論如何,過去他幫著這間公司剝削派遣員工,還是希望它能好好反省,周處除三害
但不要再以"職場專家"之姿出現在螢光幕前來消費失業勞工,你被裁員前還不自知,眼花目盲到難以置信,沒資格套用這個稱號了
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只要老闆認為可以凹你他就會用力的凹,從研究生到目前在就業市場上的人皆是如此,所以勞工要自己知道爭取權利,當免費的奴隸那跟試用期不給薪資有什麼差別,如果你連薪資都付的這麼吝嗇,說一句難聽的你也可以懷疑"公司是不是快倒了"。
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說的真好!
大老闆的文章看看就好,成功是努力(20%)+運氣(80%)~當然有些人的眼光真的是不錯。
成功後,獨裁就變的理所當然,沒辦法,誰叫他們成功了~
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