朱恐龍
朱恐龍

關於死刑,給人權團體的話...... (97892 views)
     

我通常都是站在弱者的那一邊。

不管人權團體用什麼樣的方式包裝,我都會選擇站在受害者家屬的那一邊。

因為這些受害者家屬才是真正的弱者!

他們是被這些有錢、有權、有遊說能力、有影響力的人權團體給欺壓的弱者。

如果你自詡重視什麼人權,自詡是什麼左派,卻還敢在這些32個死刑犯所侵犯的受害者家屬面前主張剝奪他們所尋求和被承諾的正義,那麼你也是欺壓他們的共犯。

Follow up:

讓我來分析給你看。

受害者的家屬,被犯罪者以違反法律,足以判決死刑之殘暴行為,剝奪了生命。

依照國家的法律對這些受害者家屬的承諾,這些人會經過合法的審判程序,獲得他應有的懲罰。

國家的法律機器,在歷經多任承審法官、多任檢察官,雙方律師曠日廢時的法律程序之後。

我國的法院甚至會多次發回更審,受害者家屬經歷五到十年的法律程序,耗費大量訴訟費用之後,甚至高達更八審以上才會定讞。

沒錯,上面這個性侵十一名女性,連讀國小的女童和兩名姊妹都不放過的罪犯,一直開庭到了:多名受害人在法院審理時出庭,懇請法官趕快結案、判郭死刑,她們很受傷,不要再傳喚受害人出庭了!,也還是沒有定讞!

引述最高法院法官的說法,這些「罪無可逭,應與世永久隔絕」,經過多次法律程序往返之後,只有在現行的法條及司法人員窮盡一切可能,最終求其生而不可得之後才會定讞。

而這定讞的結果就是死刑,也就是整個國家社會對於這些受害者家屬的承諾:當你的親人生命被侵犯剝奪之後,依照法律規範,那些侵害剝奪他權力的人依法被判處死刑。

請問,為什麼那些有錢有勢、有免費辯護律師團、有國外資金贊助、擁有大量資源的人權團體有權在這個時候使盡一切手段,剝奪這些受害者家屬所期待的正義,而這正義是我國現行法律有明文規定的正義!

人權團體有什麼權力去剝奪這些弱勢,相形於你們的力量根本微不足道的受害者家庭所應該獲得的法律判決和執行?

這難道不是強凌弱,眾暴寡的行為嗎?

支援這些人權團體,空言什麼生命重於一切的這些傢伙們,哪一個敢他媽的站出來跟我說你們已經善盡照顧這些受害者家屬的努力,幫他們爭取了足夠的賠償,照顧好了他們破碎的心靈?

在這些事件裡面誰強誰弱,只有被自己高人一等,自認清高的優越感所蒙住眼睛的人權份子看不出來。

但沒關係,我看的出來,而且我選擇站在弱者那一邊。

我們就來看看最常被死刑廢除聯盟拿來說嘴,最後一個被簽署了死刑執行令,卻未執行的鍾德樹一案好了。

2006年12月,廢除死刑聯盟發了這篇新聞稿。

在這篇由高涌誠 律師(民間司法改革基金會執行長)
高榮志 律師(廢除死刑推動聯盟死刑救援小組律師)
郭吉仁 律師(廢除死刑推動聯盟義務律師團成員)
吳佳臻 女士(台灣人權促進會秘書長)

三名律師,一個執行長聯名的文章中,最有力說鐘德樹罪不致死的理由竟然是:他犯罪之前去找過警察?

2006年12月29日,台權會發表的這篇請求總統特赦文中:

http://www.tahr.org.tw/index.php/article/2006/12/29/518/

連署的這些人士當中,各位可以自己看看,教授、律師,哪一個不是所謂的高收入、高知識份子?王寶蒞律師、尤伯祥律師、吳志光教授、吳豪人教授、高涌誠律師、高榮志律師、羅秉成律師、顧立雄律師......

好啦,在這些律師和教授的將士用命之下,連被簽署了死刑執行令的鐘德樹,照說應該要盡快執行的這個死刑犯,三年過去了,到現在還活的好好的!

好啦,人權團體當然相當驕傲,認為這是人權的重大勝利。

難道被害者家屬沒有抗議嗎?難道被害者家屬沒有聲音嗎?

其實有。

其實被鐘德樹活活燒死的被害者家屬有發出微弱的抗議聲。

但是因為他們太無力,太無權無勢,所以他們的聲音你聽不到。

我來讓你看看:

被害者家屬發表的言論在這裡:

http://blog.udn.com/bluesa/582397

他們有沒有看到中風過的公公和1歲的小姪子被困在四樓被濃煙嗆昏?有沒有看到婆婆為了救小孩們被火灼傷?

他對黃女死亡並無悔意(林欣怡委員、高志榮委員,這,就是你們要援救的人嗎?請你們再去問鐘德樹一次:他殺了我姊姊可有對她說聲抱歉過?)

黃女家人的另外一篇聲明書則是這麼寫著的:


致 中華民國立法院司法委員會、廢除死刑推動聯盟針對法務部簽署鍾德樹死刑執行令之該案被害人家屬聲明

該聯盟各位委員在提到「為什麼是鍾德樹該成為今年首例死刑執行令?」時,我們的想法是:〝為什麼是我們家的案子?為什麼要挑選在北高二市選舉敏感時刻前後翻弄此議題?是否因為在台家屬僅餘殘年二老與一雙遺孤,讓該單位認為渠等無法對抗龐大精英律師團?〞令人感覺民間司改會與廢死聯盟有落井下石、再度殘害被害人家屬心靈;此舉與鍾某手刃被害人有何區別乎?

這是多麼卑微,多麼無奈的慟哭!

把你們所謂的人權勝利,建立在兩個老人和一雙遺孤身上有什麼好驕傲的?

在她們發出這麼沈痛的聲明和陳情之後,三年過去了,鐘德樹還好好的活著,死刑廢除聯盟上依然掛著大大的字體,就算你家屬再怎麼聲明,再怎麼表達你的怒氣,覺得鐘德樹該依法執行死刑,我們這些有權有勢的人權團體,大律師和大教授們就是可以超越法律,運用一切資源,讓他繼續好端端的活著!

結果呢?

所謂的人權團體依舊大喊廢除死刑,但有人理這些受害者家屬嗎?

這位受害者家屬部落格關於這個事件的最後一篇文章標題很清楚的說明了,她有多無奈,多麼無能為力: 是的,選擇沈默,因為青天已死

為什麼人權團體可以用國外的力量,用他們的法律資源去竭盡一切所能,硬是剝奪走受害者家屬所期待,國家社會依法承諾要給他們的正義?

當然,各位號稱自己支持人權的網友,各位號稱參與眾多社會運動支持弱勢的人,一定又在電腦前面開始打文章了,「這個死胖子就只會搧動,根據我冷靜的邏輯判斷,死刑有其廢除的必要性,因為我們超級注重人權的.......」

你就他媽的告訴我那三十二個定讞的死刑犯那個是冤獄、假案,哪些就像你所說的因為去過警察局而罪不致死啊!讓大家看看這些死刑犯有多麼充足的理由是那麼的不應該跟社會隔絕啊!

但如果你所謂的人權,不能夠真正關注到這些受害者家屬身上,那你在談的人權根本只是強加你的理念到受害者家屬身上而已,這種強凌弱,眾暴寡的人權你儘管覺得驕傲吧,好我跟你不是站在同一邊!

Lucifer

http://www.taedp.org.tw/index.php?load=read&id=329

看看廢除死刑聯盟這篇誇耀自己成就的「蹣跚步履的五年,堅定未來的十年」的文章吧。

全文長達3496字,談到受害者的文字有多少? 僅有佔了全文的6.3%,堂堂的222字!而且還根本沒有一個解決方案!

就跟我前一篇的文章一樣,在照顧加害者的人權的同時,這些人權團體何時盡過責任去照顧受害者家庭?去在社會上避免可以觸犯死刑的罪刑發生?

社會大眾不是白癡或是笨蛋,他們當然看得出來這些人權團體有沒有照顧受害者家庭? 有沒有替他們著想? 有沒有替他們作法律顧問? 如果沒有,這種選擇性的人權有什麼好自豪的,各位自己好好想吧。

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迴響(1862)

迴響 from: 科科 [訪問者]
*****
要不然朱大成立一個執行死刑聯盟好了?
2009-06-11 @ 18:47
迴響 from: Stan [訪問者]
我之前想過一個問題:如果我去把這些人權團體的父母親友全部殺光,他是不是也會幫我辯護?

我對這個問題沒有解答,但我認真的覺得該執行死刑而不執行是對司法的污辱。
2009-06-11 @ 18:50
迴響 from: Zs [訪問者]
我站在弱者這邊!

---
想法同二樓

這樣很偏激嗎?
2009-06-11 @ 18:57
迴響 from: pauline [訪問者]
*****
事情沒發生在自己身上當然講得冠冕堂皇,去看一下東野圭吾的徬徨之刃就知道了,沒當過受害者(家屬)的知道什麼是人權?那受害者的人權?
2009-06-11 @ 18:57
迴響 from: D D [訪問者]
我覺得人權團體真的不知道是家庭事業朋友人生都一路順遂嗎?
而司法因為人權也已經如此的無法執行其公權力了
不只死刑 現在無期徒刑以及犯罪都讓人覺得關一下就出來了
支持你 朱大 這世界...要如何改變呢 科科~~
2009-06-11 @ 18:59
迴響 from: Bruce [訪問者]
*****
前十!?
2009-06-11 @ 19:08
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
***--
邪惡乎?
推測這些所謂廢死刑集團, 有一個高明的陰謀

死刑犯能有什麼用? 最多是死後捐出器官吧

可是就是有人這麼利害, 多利害呢?
就像發明連動債的人一樣利害!

律師這行飯僧多粥少, 而"廢死刑"正是他們的"藍海策略"
從不景氣中殺出一路"活路"

先用"人權"包裝這批垃圾,
再耍功夫把幾個死刑犯給停刑~
....
這不是告訴大家, 嘿嘿~判死刑免驚!
有錢有權的死刑犯家屬看過來~
只此一家別無分號!

不但賺了"名", 邊際效益的"利"也油然而生
根本是無本生意啊~

至於受害者家屬呢?

抱歉啦~ 你們身上擠不出"名利"啦~呵呵~
2009-06-11 @ 19:09
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
TRIGUN那種造成傷痛的理想、溫柔,還是留給外星種族吧。
2009-06-11 @ 19:10
迴響 from: 美鳥 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/shihbird
受害者的人權才是人權!
2009-06-11 @ 19:11
迴響 from: joeylord [訪問者]
人笨團體
2009-06-11 @ 19:12
迴響 from: WIIL [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc\blog\best1346
法律真是只保護懂法律的人阿
2009-06-11 @ 19:14
迴響 from: 磐 [訪問者] · http://panzeshao.pixnet.net
現在的問題是沒人敢執行(法務部長)
2009-06-11 @ 19:16
迴響 from: ghostfire [訪問者] · http://ghostfirerh.blogspot.com/
以下情節是我很喜歡的一種類型:

死刑犯出了牢寵之後,把曾經幫他說話的人權團體代表人物全殺光。

不覺得反差很大嗎?我超愛的。
2009-06-11 @ 19:19
迴響 from: Jeremy [訪問者]
*****
頭推
2009-06-11 @ 19:25
迴響 from: Kyo [訪問者]
****-
廢死刑講很久~
然後到現在沒有一個"支持廢死刑的人"能提出讓"大家支持並可以替代死刑的刑罰"
只會吵要廢要廢
然後拿一堆不知哪裡想來的理由說嘴
說再多也沒用~"~

支持朱大~~~
2009-06-11 @ 19:29
迴響 from: 跑步者 [訪問者]
推推
混蛋組織
沒考慮受害家屬
2009-06-11 @ 19:35
人權雜碎團
2009-06-11 @ 19:35
迴響 from: Bloodhunter [訪問者]
很簡單...

請這些反對執行死刑的人權團體,每年撥一筆經費,照顧這些被死刑犯剝奪生命的受害人家屬,這也是人權的表現,請他們每年展示一下成果.

等他們發現他們的大多的錢都在負擔這些受害家數的時候,他們就會考慮死刑是否要執行了。
2009-06-11 @ 19:37
迴響 from: 拆組達人 [訪問者] · http://blog.iegoffice.com
***--
我以為主要也跟台灣假釋太容易有關啊
就算是重大罪犯,判個十五年
關個一半,就行為良好假釋出獄
讓人覺得完全沒有警戒罪犯的能力
但回過頭看
真的都給他關到死
政府監獄也沒這麼大的說
說實在的,上次看到美國監獄
感覺福利還滿好的說
有電風扇跟電視
比我們國軍還好的說 = ="
這些人究竟是進去度假的還是被處罰呢?
2009-06-11 @ 19:37
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
TO:ghostfire


我也覺得這樣很帥XD!
我考慮一下如果有死刑犯願意這麼作
那我也來支持廢死刑XD!
2009-06-11 @ 19:39
迴響 from: 路熊甲 [訪問者]
其實最大的問題是
我們的政府官員正在洋洋得意
光明正大的瀆職
還沒有人跳出來指責他!
死刑定讞的死刑犯
法務部長居然能堂而皇之的【拒簽】死刑執行令
這是踐踏法律、羞辱司法
這麼不要臉的行為
歷來的法務部長居然還全都不以為恥
薪水拿假的?你們的薪水都是納稅人給的啊!
下流莫過於此
2009-06-11 @ 19:46
迴響 from: 無敵袁老頭 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/lmay1217
*****
支持死刑!
一、

有人提到「亂世用重典」、「殺一儆百」、「殺雞儆猴」嗎?

也許這不是絕對有效,也許這是版主說的死刑和遏止犯罪之間沒有關連,

但這麼久以來的歷史名言,絕對有他一丁點的意義。

而且,我就是那樣自私的人,為了保護自己和自己所愛的人,(即使發生在自己周遭的機率非常低)

即使可能誤判、可能毀了一個惡人的重生,(這兩個發生的機率也很低)

也願意挺死刑到底,只要它能降低犯罪率千分之一或萬分之一。

二、
拿死刑犯來作研究,這也虎爛的吧!也還有更好的標的。
不值得討論。

三、
每個人都有生存的權利,但全台灣每一個人都是和生存在這個社會中嗎?

有沒有完全對這個社會只有破壞,沒有價值的人呢?

一定有吧! 一定有吧!!

有必要為那少數百萬分之一的

有人的外表形體(卻沒有人的內在)的「動物」的存在權

爭論不休嗎?處死他,和殺死一隻餵食人類的豬,有何不同?

我很狂妄、我很自私,是的,在這個議題上,我的態度原則就是如此。
支持死刑!怕得兔
一、
我是主張「亂世用重典」的那一個人,而且我沒有看任何相關的資料

所以我的回應都是很主觀的、很直覺的

版主說要看統計學上的資料,來確定死刑的效果如何

而您也說有統計顯示:死刑和犯罪率的高低是無關的,

老實說,我很好奇,這個證據到底在哪裡?

如果有,請版主提供一下,解決大家的疑惑

二、
我是一個老師,而我看到很多以威權式、高壓式管理班級的老師

雖然我並不認同這種方式,學生容易變得畏畏縮縮,或和班導產生強烈的對立

但是,班級學生會不會比較「乖」,秩序有沒有比較「好」,家長認不認同,

經過長期(七、八年)的觀察,這三者的答案都是很明顯的:嚴刑峻罰是有用的

這個例子能不能和「死刑與社會治安」有相關連?

能不能當作統計學上的有效證據?

(如果能),從「人性」的角度來看,我是支持死刑存在的必要性--嚇阻作用

三、
根據「破窗效應」(很抱歉,我不知道這有沒有統計上的理論基礎)

犯小錯小罪的人越少,相對的,犯大錯大罪的人也會減少。

比例不變,但總案件數下降。

這有沒有理論根據呢?很抱歉,這也是我自己相當然耳。

但只要有「合理性」,我就支持應該以「嚴刑峻罰」控制社會某些不當的行為。

(如:酒駕、強盜、詐騙、洗錢……等,這只是舉例而已,

不需討論是哪些刻意犯罪,這交由專家決定)
何謂「人權」?
「豬」有沒有「人權」?
只有「人形」外表的泯滅人性的兇殘暴徒,需要和他講「人權」嗎?
那一般善良老百姓的「生存權」、「心安權」在哪裡?

我支持死刑,也不否認誤判、冤獄的可能性
也很贊成運用更嚴苛的標準去判定,更冗長的程序去確認
但,是不是沒有任何一個窮凶極惡的歹徒,不應該被判死刑
只要有一個罪證確鑿,應該剝奪他在回歸社會的權力及必要性,

那死刑就應該存在

死刑,可以備而不用,可以少去使用
卻不應該全面禁止或視之毒蛇猛獸

2009-06-11 @ 19:51
迴響 from: mio [訪問者]
有錢有勢、有免費辯護律師團、有國外資金贊助、擁有大量資源的人權團體
======================================

站在執行死刑這邊,
站在把國外資金幫助受害者這邊......
2009-06-11 @ 19:52
迴響 from: noname [訪問者]
*****
推朱先生所說的『這種強凌弱,眾暴寡的人權你儘管覺得驕傲吧,幸好我跟你不是站在同一邊!』

推Stan所說的『該執行死刑而不執行是對司法的侮辱』

即使下一秒死刑就要廢除了,這一秒該斬的人還是得斬。


請別誤會我就是完全支持死刑的人,也別誤認我反串;

只是臺灣由來已久的問題就是,法律人專門玩弄法律,視法律為無物,

對有權勢及既得利益者形同虛設。


朱先生如果號召連署要求法務部長盡速簽署執行令,我肯定會參與;

不過,若是關於死刑存廢之連署,請先分開來,我還沒準備好要支持誰!
2009-06-11 @ 19:55
迴響 from: chiz [訪問者]
連署,
從我開始,
該執行死刑的就執行!!!
2009-06-11 @ 20:05
迴響 from: 仙人掌 [訪問者]
*****
早上我出門前,來朱大的blog逛到上一篇跟執行死刑有關的文章。
一開始還不太以為然,後來我發現根本是我搞錯了...原來朱大要求的是執行已經確定的死刑!

本來我想站在法律構成的基礎立場把一些跟死刑有關的關點拿出來贊成廢止死刑,現在可以全丟到垃圾桶了。

原因很簡單:一個刑罰的存在便是代表了人民的認同和支持以及遵守--而中華民國是有死刑的國家。
在這樣的民主國家裡你可以大聲反對死刑,那是你的自由;可以想辦法改變刑法,廢止死刑,那是你的權力;
但是,不要想去阻止刑罰的執行!那是一種藐視國家和法律的表現!

我可以很清楚地說,人權團體根本搞錯手段和方向,因為一個民主自由的國家裡只有在不認同判決的時候
才需要上訴,而不會是為了某種抽象的目標,像是「為了人權」上訴--根本是在不對的地方進行不同碼的事!

再重申一次,這些死刑犯的人權並沒有受到傷害!
至少在這個國家裡的法律是這麼認為的:死刑犯是在有人權的情況下被判刑,而不是「被剝奪了人權所以可以處死」。
所以死刑犯們根本沒有人權受到侵害的疑慮!照人權團體的邏輯,會變成任何刑罰都是侵犯人權!而這根本是詭辯!

至於在更核心基本面的法理上,為了人權是否該廢止死刑,又根本是「不同地方」存在的議題
這個議題應該存在的地方是立法院,或是一堆法理學教授的semi,更或者可以出現在討論板上。

但,絕對不是在法庭上

法庭這個地方是就既有的刑罰條例,根據被告的行為來進行刑罰判定的場所。
不是讓他們在那裡談人權的地方--只有對著陪審團求情的律師需要用到這個議題!

更何況,即使現在立刻廢止死刑,只要沒有追溯不執行,這些人還是得受到處死的刑罰!

我可以理解法官判了死刑卻遲遲不執行的心理,就像日本人民甚至不願意當陪審團一樣
但那並不是對的,否則當初就不該判死刑,這種延遲執行其實是對他們自己的工作和信奉條理的一種否定和踐踏!

雖然這次朱大一直動輒以情讓我不太滿意(這種手法跟人權團體在那裡狂叫有可憐的死刑犯差不多,立場相反而已)
但是這篇文章的主要骨幹還是打動了我,我覺得這就是理智清楚的人該有的表現。

故在此我提出我的看法,希望能提供其他網友一個不同方向的思考。
2009-06-11 @ 20:08
迴響 from: biowave [訪問者]
廢死聯盟根本是假道學

廢死聯盟自己都承認,它們的目標
僅在死刑的廢除,而不是不執行死刑
至於受害者的公義,社會秩序的維護
根本無關痛癢
2009-06-11 @ 20:08
迴響 from: 迷失羊 [訪問者]
亂世用重典
這世道難道還稱不上亂嗎?
2009-06-11 @ 20:13
迴響 from: mio [訪問者]
可以請監察院糾正或彈劾應作為而不作為的公務人員嗎?!
2009-06-11 @ 20:13
迴響 from: biowave [訪問者]
對廢死聯盟我只想說8個字


人權已死,偽善當道
2009-06-11 @ 20:20
迴響 from: OverLoad [訪問者]
風涼的毒舌
誰不會說--只因未是被傷害
現實不容許空談生命是如何祟高的理想
2009-06-11 @ 20:20
迴響 from: biowave [訪問者]
風涼的毒舌
誰不會說--只為保護人權
崇高的理想不是剝削弱者的偽善
2009-06-11 @ 20:32
迴響 from: 看不下去了 [訪問者]
人權團體很喜歡站在道德的制高點上
睥睨其他人,
叫別人去多看點書,
叫別人去怎樣怎樣的,
卻從來不檢討自己的想法有什麼問題,
因為他們目空一切!
自以為是!

這點從在本站討論的廢死支持者身上,
看得相當清楚。
2009-06-11 @ 20:44
迴響 from: TK大佛 [訪問者]
如果...我是說如果...這些大律師,人權團體,宗教團體,政府高層,能夠捐錢列預算把受害者家屬照顧好,使其一生衣食無缺,在公領域上享有優惠如減稅,交通,醫療免費(像漫畫死亡預告般),當作是國家替死刑犯贖罪。如果能夠達到這種程度,廢除死刑會不會比較沒有爭議?
還是說用死不了的方式,使死刑犯喪失行為能力終生不得接觸社會,像是用手術或藥物(如電影關鍵報告或超級戰警的冷凍科技)。來取代死刑?會不會比較沒有爭議?
2009-06-11 @ 20:45
迴響 from: carlyuan [訪問者]
"每個人都有生存的權利" 這句話好 ... 好到爆炸

也正因為如此,我堅決支持只要剝奪別人生存的權利,

那就該讓社會也剝奪他生存的權力,吼系...賣驚!
2009-06-11 @ 21:09
迴響 from: 5566 [訪問者]
說到叫人多看一點書..還有就是只要你不是法律相關低..還會用很睥睨的態度..你懂不懂啊..這是世界潮流..語氣中還會帶著淡淡的輕蔑..拿著頭銜壓人..真是E04..最會的就是丟出啥誤判拉..人權拉..宗教拉..叫你思考一下..我已經從幼稚園想到現在了..結論跟朱大一樣..強凌弱..眾暴寡..這就是他們的所作所為..
2009-06-11 @ 21:14
迴響 from: 換個角度想 [訪問者]
就這件事看起來人權團體好像笨蛋,但蘇建和若不是人權團體大概現在也掰掰了。
立場不同看事情的角度也會有差,大多數的人選則站在被害者的角度看事情,所以才會有站在犯人的角度來思考的人權團體啊。
我覺得還是個案個案來看,不需要因為一件事否定整個人權團體,也許各位覺得在這件事情上面你不認同他們,但確實他們過去做過許多令人尊敬的事情,也許各位不知道,也許各位知道,如果有興趣,也是可以好好研究一下,這樣憑著自己一時的情感一昧否定總是不太好。
我自己常與所謂的犯罪者為伍,有些是真的做了不對的事情,有些則是被刑求、頂罪、恐嚇等等的情形,但相同的是,大家都討厭他們,無論是法官、警察、鄰居,親戚,沒有人喜歡罪犯。
比起大家都同情的被害者,誰會在乎糾由自取的犯罪者呢?
然而在這些死刑犯中,或許大部分真的是罪無可赦人人得而諸之,但人權的保護並不是僅限於這些人,像是被無證據判死刑的蘇建和,像是被羈押20年的陸正案嫌疑犯邱和順,像是李師科案中被刑求,最後在秀朗橋上跳河自盡的王迎先,也是有他們的前車之鑑,台灣刑事訴訟法上在人權的保護才得以慢慢的進步。
在我的經驗裡面,很多犯罪者生活在各位很難以想像的世界,也許這不能正當化他們的行為,但身為一個有正常同情心的人,很多時候我會懷疑他們真的有到人人得而諸之的程度嗎?
各位總說人權團體的發聲是因為人權團體的親人沒有被這些殺人犯所殺害,我也同意將心比心很重要,但是我也期許各位在說這些話的同時,想像一下這個畫面:「你昨天和你的小學同學出去玩,今天警察闖進你家把你抓起來,說你涉嫌殺害一對夫妻,你否認犯行,接著被刑求30個小時後終於受不了自白,被帶到法庭上,法官一看你就說你不是好人,最後判決有罪,唯一死刑」(蘇建和案實例),這時新聞報導會說你是壞人,所有你認識的人都會說你是壞人,你該怎麼辦呢?
很多時候人權團體並非這麼不堪,也許各位不認同他們處理這件事情的方式,但其實他們也做了許多其他的事情,希望各位在批評時,能在這件事情上人權團體的做的好不好來批評,要批評整個人權團體,希望也能參考一下他們曾經為台灣人權發展所做的努力一併參考。
2009-06-11 @ 21:26
迴響 from: moto447 [訪問者]
有些官員為了選票故意不依法行政
我最討厭這種沒擔當的爛官
大家一起用選票譴責他們



2009-06-11 @ 21:31
迴響 from: 641117 [訪問者]
支持死刑

先實驗一下


等一下再來說說想法
2009-06-11 @ 21:40
迴響 from: 笨魚 [訪問者]
非常贊同上述說法...
可是....我覺得高官和人權團體如果會採納這些意見,他們就不會當上高官了(也就是說當上高官某種層面上說來是自以為「充滿理想抱負」,但其實跟基層聲音有了落差....)
他們覺得不施行死刑是「善的」,但我覺得亂世不用重典,對於受害者和其他「越來越大尾」的收不到效果.....
某種層面上說來,高層的算「偽善」基層的憤怒和迷惑還有疲憊他們是感受不到的....
俗話說一審重判,二審減半,三審.......(常常更了好幾審最後甚至輕輕放下.....)
比較爭議性的案例如潑王水的某某現在成了翻譯.....我想當初的受害者是完全無法苟同....不過話說始作俑者之一是完全沒坐牢,只是學業、事業似乎也都完蛋了.....(扯遠了)
無論如何......人權團體算是很強悍的「遊說團體」.....是不是贊成死刑也要成立一個遊說團體呢?
某些高官認為「廢除死刑才是先進國家的作法」,不過連美國都有死刑....說起來....這是一個非常值得辯論的議題啊..
2009-06-11 @ 21:46
迴響 from: 阿蠍 [訪問者]
推那個把人權團體的親朋好友幹掉後 再請那些教授律師幫我免除死刑= =a

樓樓上那位 "換個角度想" 您的意思是....那個人是被刑求才去頂罪的嗎= =?



有些殺了人被關進牢裡後 為了讓自己有機會假釋出獄 都會塑造出一臉悔不當初的樣子 抄心經給人看 哭給人看 請主原諒 請誰誰誰原諒
實在是有夠心機的
2009-06-11 @ 21:47
迴響 from: mio [訪問者]
to 換個角度想 ...

如果廢除死刑聯盟改個名字如防止冤獄聯盟,我絕對舉雙手贊成,每個月捐錢贊助我也願意,但現今死刑的判定,並不是一兩天判定後就執行,發回更八審、更十一審,也不在少數,拖個五年十年在判決後檢調法官還會認定"窮盡一切可能,最終求其生而不可得之後才會定讞",冤獄的可能性已經少之極少,拿以前的例子來質疑現在的司法,是認為現在的司法一如十數年前嗎?關於廢死聯盟,我同意他們的確做了一些好事,但也不能無上綱的自我感覺過於良好。



2009-06-11 @ 21:51
迴響 from: Voyager613 [訪問者]
****-
To 換個角度想:

我們當然相信有些人會真的為被冤枉的人而奔走呼告,就像不是所有的鈾-235都是拿去做原子彈一樣.

只是,某些只想拿人權議題出名的混球實在是太過分,假如像朱大說的案例都可以用人權的理由赦免,那天下豈不大亂?

亂世該用重典,而人間就是亂世.廢除死刑是不可行的,必要的嚇阻還是需要的.這是我個人的想法.
2009-06-11 @ 21:56
迴響 from: 老皮 [訪問者]
To : 換個角度想

你舉的例子很好,那麼應該鼓勵這些人權團體繼續努力的方向應該是「伸張人權,合理辦案,避免冤獄」吧,怎麼會變成是廢除死刑呢?總不能因為司法體系不能百分之百保證保證一定零冤獄,就可以引申成為要廢除(或不可以執行)死刑的理由。如果主張維持死刑的人說:因為不能保證一定不會有泯滅人性的犯罪者,所以一定要維持死刑,反對的人會不會也覺得很詭辯呢?

人權團體在蘇建和案上的努力值得尊敬,那是因為大家都看得到證據力不足而認同不可執行死刑,不是單純為了一個抽象的人權概念而尊敬他們;如果要把這樣的事情過度引申到朱大舉的那 32 個案例裡,那也就難怪大家會對這些人權團體的作為嗤之以鼻。
2009-06-11 @ 22:02
迴響 from: UNDER [訪問者]
我覺得人權超級重要的說

所以更應該好好執行死刑阿

犯人有好好接受死刑的義務阿

憑什麼剝奪犯人被處決的權利呢

真稿不懂替死聯盟一直把人權掛在嘴邊是什麼意思
2009-06-11 @ 22:15
迴響 from: noname [訪問者]
to : 換個角度想

也許我是暫成廢死的,不過以目前廢死聯盟的所做所為,要我支持似乎有點難度阿...

認為死刑不好,進而發聲推動廢死是行動的典範,但是在廢死都還沒排入議程的狀況下就運用權勢去技術性廢死,這是作踐司法,也傷害人們對司法的信任。

假如改天死刑廢除了,但當權者卻運用權勢去殺人,難道會比較好嗎?我不覺得!

還是老話一句,依法行政,尊法、守法。

莫忘了蘇格拉底為尊法守法而死之典範!
2009-06-11 @ 22:15
迴響 from: 眼藥水28 [訪問者] · http://blog.roodo.com/collyrium_no28
我現在只想說:


人權團體都是偽善!




TO 王中之王的王
講TRIGUN會暴露自己的年齡啦(我超愛那一部的)
2009-06-11 @ 22:20
迴響 from: akira [訪問者]
*****
我今天希望這個社會改變的話,我會認真去找任何可以影響這個社會使之改變的可能,並加以實行。

就在剛剛,也已經寄信到監察院信箱及總統府信箱,表達了個人的看法及意見。

希望在坐的諸君,不該只坐而言,不起而行,在這個社會要做改變,可以努力的可能多的是。

如果一個人的信不被重視,那麼大家何不每人寄一封信,寄去覺得能夠有重視此事的可能的單位,不論是政府機關,不論是媒體團體。

雖然做了不一定百分之百有效,但不做的話肯定是百分之百無效。
2009-06-11 @ 22:23
迴響 from: 橘色 [訪問者]
還是一句話
如果 真的死刑能免
那代表沉默弱者的失敗

2009-06-11 @ 22:25
迴響 from: RR [訪問者]
*****
樓上有提到所謂"防止冤獄聯盟"
個人以為是不可能出現的
一则此點太沒有操作空間(誰不支持防止冤獄阿)
一则根本作不到
既然都更八審十一審才作出死刑定讞
民間團體如何能作得更多

"廢除死刑聯盟"可就不同了
舉著人權大旗 自有一群偽善名士於其間操弄議題

支持執行已定讞之死刑
2009-06-11 @ 22:29
迴響 from: 不冰 [訪問者]
*----
如果有權利實行死刑的人都不實行死刑,那我支持廢除死刑,留一個虛名的刑罰,不如不要有,但同時我也支持更不人道的刑罰,例如酷刑但不致死之類的刑罰,這樣可能比死刑的威震力還來的更大。
人權?是人都有人權,但如何抉擇,為了死刑犯的人權,讓社會大亂,忽視不應受害的人的人權,是不是本末倒置?
2009-06-11 @ 22:32
迴響 from: BB [訪問者]
我也是,我本來不太贊同朱大前一篇文章,但現在我完全站在朱大這邊,台灣廢死聯盟的網站功不可殁,尤其是看到上面有一篇文章,說死刑不能解決犯罪問題,唯一解決的方法是"全民擁有正當的主耶穌信仰"....WTF
2009-06-11 @ 22:33
迴響 from: 路人 [訪問者]
支持死刑
但是不能誤判
罪證確鑿就直接一槍斃了他吧
2009-06-11 @ 22:39
迴響 from: skyivan [訪問者] · http://mylibrary.pixnet.net/blog
*****
不能同意朱大更多....
人權團體所扮演的根本就是二度加害者的角色
2009-06-11 @ 22:43
迴響 from: 輕輕走過 [訪問者]
我很喜歡一部電影"殺戮時刻(A Time To Kill)"一個炎熱的下午,美國密西西比州的一個10歲黑人小女孩走在鄉間的路上,卻被2個成天無所是事的白人小混混擄走,先是輪姦,而後是冷血而無情的凌虐,在他們"盡興"之後,將奄奄一息的小女孩從橋上下,讓她在冰冷的溪水裡等死。後來小女孩沒死,小混混也被捉到,但是當悲憤無比的父親知道這兩個混混在當時種族歧視仍然明顯的社會裡頂多被判10年的徒刑時,他決定自己動手為自己的女兒討回公道,在審判的當天他拿著來福槍在法庭裡幹掉了那兩個混混,有興趣的朋有可以放狗找一下,不錯的商業片。

  我也很想問那些廢死聯盟的成員們,如果今天是養你愛你的父母’一同長大的手足’誓言白首的結髮’手心手背肉的寶貝,其中任何一個遭受冷酷無情的殺害,甚至凌虐致死,你能否說出原諒,我很久之前就問過自己,三不五時想到還會再問一下

我做不到
  或許人死不能復生,或許傷痛無法平復,但是我要他們也付出相同的代價,而且這是現行法律對我的承諾,既然人權是一視同仁的,在他為了私人的利益奪取另一個人"生"的權利時,你憑甚麼再跟我談他的人權

死刑是絕對的刑罰,所以對審判過程必須更加嚴謹,不過冤獄的避免跟死刑為何要扯在一起,那麼以後警察執勤是否一律禁止配戴真槍,只發空氣槍加BB彈再給一個電擊棒,因為法官都無權依法律判決人的生死了,警察憑甚麼天天帶的死刑執行令在街上晃,只要自己判斷有必要,先對空鳴槍以後就可以簽上嫌疑人的名字,別跟我說的麼值勤規定跟嚴謹的用槍時機不拉不拉的....
難道現行死刑的判定還不夠嚴謹(相對死刑)更別提現在的警紀敗壞啊!!!


至於用執行死刑的國家犯罪率仍然偏高來推斷死刑和犯罪率無關的論點,看到一位網友說的我很贊同"假如廢除死刑,那個國家的犯罪率肯定破表"
如果拿不出配套,只是一直要廢死,廢死聯盟好大的FACE啊


2009-06-11 @ 22:45
迴響 from: FBIMAN [訪問者] · http://fbinews.pixnet.net/blog
*****

我沒意見。

朱大這篇說的太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!太好了!(回音,空谷回音!)


到底臺灣的「大律師」有沒有人幫受害者「維護人權」???

OS:美國至少還有「禿鷹」這種律師,願意幫受害的人打高額賠償金官司,以便分一杯羹。
2009-06-11 @ 22:48
迴響 from: Bill [訪問者] · http://www.dotblogs.com.tw/billchung/
等到有一天這些自命清高的人權團體有家人冤死之時,看他會不會替那個殺了他家人的人爭取權益
2009-06-11 @ 22:49
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
應該不是自命清高。

這是一塊招牌

換言之
可能用"人權是門好生意"更貼切。

這年頭文化也成了一門好生意
人權又怎會不行?
2009-06-11 @ 22:58
迴響 from: iamnotgm [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/iamnotgm
****-
首先我想說
近來朱大的幾篇文章都讓我看到有權勢者的醜惡
不是廢死團體的行徑便是104總裁的虛偽
真想高呼一聲"打倒走資派"

關於死刑要不要廢除的問題
說實在我很困惑
記得龍騎士07說過
"如果一個人心中產生了不殺人解決不了問題的想法,那就是通往悲劇的捷徑"
我一直相信這句話
而把這句話同樣帶入這個問題之後
我卻發現現在死刑這條殺人的路
卻是最快最簡單最符合人性的路

我有個想法大概其他人也想過
如果現在的死刑或無期徒刑可以改為終身勞動
會不會比較好一點?
不過直到現在依然沒有一個政府這樣做
或許太過天真的我有什麼沒想到的理由吧

當然必須先聲明
我也是支持現在定下的死刑就應該執行的
規定就是如此不爽的話你去推動修法
但是不應該操弄規則把秩序視為無物

但是死刑要不要廢的議題
只能說我在期待有個不要殺人的更好的解決之道
2009-06-11 @ 22:59
迴響 from: 黑色娑羅雙樹 [訪問者]
我說幾句不中聽的
廢死聯盟為了達成自已的理想
忽略了受害家屬的感受
朱大為了痛批廢死聯盟的作為
把受害家屬拿來當武器

唯一的共同點
兩者都沒有為受害家屬作了什麼

幹,還不都是在打嘴炮
-------------------------------
但是朱大有寫卡片給劉警員的家屬啦
這是不可否認的做了一件好事,哈哈

(Lucifer:你搞錯了,我兩邊其實都有作,不想拿出來講而已。
2009-06-11 @ 23:07
迴響 from: マダオ [訪問者]
*****
法律上...
人的權利始於出生終於死亡
因此...被害人已死
沒有人權可言@@!
加害人還活著
所以有人權!

不過...我是贊成死刑的~
2009-06-11 @ 23:07
迴響 from: mio [訪問者]
to iamnotgm :
.........................
我有個想法大概其他人也想過
如果現在的死刑或無期徒刑可以改為終身勞動
會不會比較好一點?
不過直到現在依然沒有一個政府這樣做
或許太過天真的我有什麼沒想到的理由吧
...........恕刪..............
=================================

不曉得終身勞動的根據是什麼,
如果做到死又不能出獄,那囚犯會有動力勞動嗎?
如果一個重刑犯堅拒勞動,獄方基於人權又能拿囚犯如何?!








2009-06-11 @ 23:34
迴響 from: Alice [訪問者] Email
*****
成立執行死刑聯盟,
根本就沒什麼好成立的!
本該判死刑的就是要執行!
(降不就跟台灣一直喊要獨立沒兩樣...)

愚昧的我是支持死刑的!
不知我們能為那些受害人的家屬做些什麼?
看了前一篇死刑的文章我真的很激動,
或許我不知道自己在激動什麼,但我真的覺得憑什麼殺人的一命可以抵別人好幾命,
還是他們都以為死了砍掉重練就好!

常常看電視新聞覺得台灣人很愛遊行,
很愛反東反西!但為了該死的死刑犯,為了死刑犯的人權
要來靜坐要來遊行!!!
死刑犯們!為了你們該死的人權,做錯事的人不是該反省跪地求饒嗎??
那個"誰"說人死了大不了賠錢的畜生,說的還是人話嗎!
我才不想記這些垃圾死刑犯的名字!

連結過去看到某篇媽媽跟死刑犯擁抱,她要放下是她個人自由!
但不代表每個受害家庭都想跟死刑犯擁抱!
叫受害家屬放下!放什麼下?放個屁啦!
大家都放下還要警察幹麻?
怎麼不在那些垃圾殘害他人生命的時候放下圖刀立地成佛!

真的不想再只是每次看到電視殺人犯判死刑卻跟假死的蟑螂一樣,
不想再只是看電視氣一氣罵一罵,出一張嘴而已!
如果有什麼方式能幫的上忙我希望能盡一點點微薄的力量,
我想這種情況或許不是寫卡片就能撫慰那些家屬的...
(不是說寫卡片不好的意思)

對!那些高知識份子的確有權有勢,
有錢能使鬼推墨,如果中樂透就先辦聯盟!
殺手聯盟,不是殺死刑犯,是先殺那些"變鬼變怪"(台語)的人!

幹!到底該怎麼辦?支持死刑應該也被那些人說"假仙",
明明不是你家死跟人家窮緊張,我想他們會這麼想!
媽的!如果真的每個人都放下,早就天下太平了,這個世界還要槍還要核子武器幹麻!
他媽的!還有H1N1

還是學柯賜海舉牌給媒體拍,雖然降真的很丟臉,但到底有沒有效?
說到柯賜海他是不是被關了?連照顧流浪犬的人都被關了,
殺死人強暴人的還再吃免錢的飯!
某些山區的小孩都沒飯吃了,要他們放下什麼?碗喔?
2009-06-12 @ 00:14
迴響 from: 宅大叔 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/bearcr
該執行的就該執行,
該還的就該還

沒什麼好婆婆媽媽的!
2009-06-12 @ 00:20
迴響 from: 小丁 [訪問者]
我要提另一觀點,或許會因此被認為是腦殘、冷血不重視受害者家屬所應獲得的正義者。

我沒有要去評斷誰誰誰該死,某某某不該死。我要說兩個部分:

1.追求正義的過程是不是沒有瑕疵?
2.受害者家屬真正得到她們要的正義了嗎?

我是一個從事婦女服務的社工,在工作的過程中曾經看過服務對象莫名其妙因為被冒名借貸、開票而遭起訴詐欺;也看過一些青少年因為義氣而被同儕設計為代罪羔羊。當服務對象成為「嫌犯」被偵訊時,是處於慌亂或者百口莫辯的情形,檢察官持續以「你就承認吧!」的態度,以及他人的自白進行起訴、求刑。

如果這個人是你呢?你能確保自己不會遇到這樣的情況嗎?每一次偵察的過程真的完全不會受到「嫌犯」的外貌、家庭背景、等非客觀因素影響嗎?

再來,執行死刑就一定是對受害者家屬的正義嗎?如果我的家人遭到他人這麼嚴重的傷害,我也是恨不得想要把加害人大卸八塊,加害人執行死刑了,我還會叫好。但是,如果被執行死刑的人不是真的加害人,那我真的追求到我要的正義了嗎?剝奪他人生命的同時是不是也在製造不正義?

我覺得很困惑,我又不是警察、法官、檢察官;我也不是被判處死刑的人或是受害人,我到底要怎麼知道真相?

難道只能這樣分嗎?有沒有更好的作法?
支持死刑=追求受害者正義/罔顧無辜者人權
廢除死刑=罔顧受害者正義/追求無辜者人權

最後,我覺得法庭能給的不是安慰與療癒。
2009-06-12 @ 00:25
迴響 from: 阿勇 [訪問者]
以下是我找到的轉貼文章,原出處的無名關閉,不過你可以參可一下,關於日本對一個未滿十八歲的少年判死刑的案例,http://www.wretch.cc/blog/Nanako021370/6638159
2009-06-12 @ 00:25
迴響 from: 累死人了~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [訪問者] · http://funny-everyday.blogspot.com/
****-
大家早點睡吧~~
2009-06-12 @ 00:34
迴響 from: mio [訪問者]
from: 阿勇 [訪問者]
以下是我找到的轉貼文章,原出處的無名關閉,不過你可以參可一下,關於日本對一個未滿十八歲的少年判死刑的案例,http://www.wretch.cc/blog/Nanako021370/6638159

=====================================

推...
2009-06-12 @ 00:37
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
*****
所以我真的滿討厭律師的,知法玩法弄法的傢伙,用盡各種場合與議題攫取利益,簡直和糞甲蟲一樣。

替32個死刑定讞的畜生爭取所謂【人權】?

廢除死刑,可以啊,那就關到死為止!
不得假釋、須自己工作賺取維生必須。
擺爛?餓死你。是你自己擺爛的啊,獄方得基於其人權,尊重其擺爛餓死的權利。

http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!A930EEE579EAA1B7!998.entry
2009-06-12 @ 00:41
迴響 from: sam [訪問者]
我的想法很簡單
與其保障加害者的人權
我更支持受害者的人權
2009-06-12 @ 00:55
迴響 from: 遊盪者 [訪問者]
人權團體很了不起很有權有勢嗎?看到朱先生帶頭這邊眾鄉民一面倒地殺伐辱罵,我怎麼一點也感受不出?

還有,朱先生也不要假仙了,你根本就是看同樣研考會vision2020負責人權頻道的廖元豪老師他們不爽吧?明明你負責的是生活頻道,卻要搞成另一個(反)人權頻道啊

呵呵呵

(Lucifer:唉唷不要幻想啦,之前我老早跟廖老師說過要這樣搞啦,上次還一起吃披薩哩。
2009-06-12 @ 01:07
迴響 from: sam [訪問者]
要不
給那些死刑犯打一劑會變成植物人的針
由那些廢死聯盟來扶養照顧他們一輩子
這樣應該就兩全其美了吧
2009-06-12 @ 01:09
迴響 from: mio [訪問者]
to 小丁:
.............................
1.追求正義的過程是不是沒有瑕疵?
2.受害者家屬真正得到她們要的正義了嗎?
...........(恕刪)............

===============================

第1點,我相信千百例案子,總會幾件有瑕疵之處,因此我們可以繁複判決的程序,以求勿枉勿縱,但也不能因噎廢食,輕縱罪犯。

第2點,我一直覺得這跟被害者家屬無關,人權受到侵犯的是被害者。是不是我們認為被害者已經無法表達他的意見,而自動漠視他的存在呢,如果加害者可以觀落陰求得被害者的原諒,那我們倒是可以考慮減輕其刑(煙)。
2009-06-12 @ 01:15
迴響 from: konan1998 [訪問者]
我超努力的在"廢除死刑推動聯盟"爬文(硬食一堆我多半不認同的說法真的很考耐心),他奶奶的花了半個小時還找不到任何死刑和犯罪率相關的數據啦!(覺得自己超白痴的...)政府有沒有請專家學者來討論這個問題呢?煩請各位大大提供專業的知識或相關資訊

後來我在google找到相當多的評論(還是沒找到數據):加拿大等歐洲國家廢死刑後犯罪率持續沒廢之前的趨勢不斷降低,而菲律賓等則是廢了又立,導致犯罪率產生波動,南非則是廢了以後犯罪率高到靠盃

尹清楓命案、319槍擊案、新鮮熱辣的高捷案二審宣判無罪...我們比較像南非呢;還是比較接近加拿大?

看看國內的立法嚴整性、司法體系效率、還有人民道德水準,我覺得,目前還是不要廢死刑比較好吧?

假如死刑是目前對社會最有益的做法,我絕對支持,但我也希望政府擔起"尋找更佳做法"的責任
2009-06-12 @ 01:30
迴響 from: b [訪問者]
按照吳思的【血酬定律】來說
大律師只是背書了他們有能力對抗現有的法律而已

好威好暴力啊!
暴力最強者的選擇,體現了對自身利益最大化的追求,而不是對正義的追求。暴力最強者甚至可以選擇並修改正義觀念本身。
2009-06-12 @ 01:34
迴響 from: EKTIEN [訪問者]
To 小丁
這裡講的是死刑定獻的受刑人,你說的詐欺罪差很多。
這些人剝奪過別人的生命,而且要被判死刑通常都是罪行重大。這種人在殺人的時候是不把對方的生命跟自己生命當成對等的。

你說的部份都是程序上應該要作到的。我們可以修法取消死刑,可以加強警察法院檢察官的預算讓省裡的品質提高,修法讓審判程序更公正。

但是不能判了刑不執行。這就是朱大這兩篇的重點。包括部長在內的人權團體用合法邊緣的方法阻止法律去執行死刑。
問題是,在現有的法律下,這些受害者唯一的正義就是對加害者執行死刑。

如果法律能夠修正,找到一個更能伸張正義的方法,我相信我們有辦法去推動立法院。但在這之前,制度定下來就要遵守。
2009-06-12 @ 01:38
迴響 from: biowave [訪問者]
to 換個角度想

> 就這件事看起來人權團體好像笨蛋,但蘇建和若不是人權團體大概現在也掰掰了。
"隔壁的阿三雖然現在闖紅燈,可是他之前都有守交通法規阿"

> 立場不同看事情的角度也會有差,大多數的人選則站在被害者的角度看事情,所以
> 才會有站在犯人的角度來思考的人權團體啊。
這跟人數沒有關係,人數並不應該影響司法,人數並不應該影響事實,過去會發生
人權問題並不是因為站在嫌犯的人數較少的關係,也不是比較少人同情嫌犯的關係
,而是沒有察明事實

站在事實的角度才是人權的聲張,廢死聯盟完全搞錯了方向,一股腦地站在同情的
角度,完全扭曲了什麼叫做為人權聲張

> 我覺得還是個案個案來看,不需要因為一件事否定整個人權團體,
我覺得死刑還是個案個案來看,不需要因為一位蘇建和案否定整個司法制度

> 也許各位覺得在這件事情上面你不認同他們,但確實他們過去做過許多令人尊敬的
事情,也許各位不知道,也許各位知道,如果有興趣,也是可以好好研究一下
訴諸權位是邏輯錯誤的思考,他們並不會因為"過去做過許多令人尊敬的事情"
就不會出現"現在做過許多錯誤的事情",實際上,完全不必考慮他們過去做過
什麼,而必須要考慮的是他們在現在這個時空背景下,做了什麼

> ,這樣憑著自己一時的情感一昧否定總是不太好。
> 我自己常與所謂的犯罪者為伍,有些是真的做了不對的事情,有些則是被刑求、頂
> 罪、恐嚇等等的情形,但相同的是,大家都討厭他們,無論是法官、警察、鄰居,
> 親戚,沒有人喜歡罪犯。
大家是誰?包括你嗎?不是吧

因為你不是大家,但既然你不是大家,又怎會知道大家喜不喜歡罪犯呢?
原來你不知道,你不知道大家喜不喜歡罪犯,但你猜測大家不喜歡罪犯,
然後又以大家不喜歡罪犯(還是你猜測的喔)的理由訴諸情感,你們看!
沒人喜歡他們,去否定,去選擇站在罪犯的角度,而不是事實的角度

你憑著自己一時的情感一昧否定刑罰的執行

> 比起大家都同情的被害者,誰會在乎糾由自取的犯罪者呢?
既然是糾由自取,又何必同情?同情又怎麼樣?不同情又怎麼樣?

原來都跟同情沒有關係
誰是受害著誰是加害者並不是同情的多寡來決定的,而是由所作所為來決定的

> 然而在這些死刑犯中,或許大部分真的是罪無可赦人人得而諸之,但人權的保護並
> 不是僅限於這些人,像是被無證據判死刑的蘇建和,像是被羈押20年的陸正案嫌疑
> 犯邱和順,像是李師科案中被刑求,最後在秀朗橋上跳河自盡的王迎先,也是有他
> 們的前車之鑑,台灣刑事訴訟法上在人權的保護才得以慢慢的進步。
人權並不是可免除罰責,而是確保個人權力得以保護
廢死聯盟完全搞錯了方向

> 在我的經驗裡面,很多犯罪者生活在各位很難以想像的世界,也許這不能正當化他
> 們的行為,但身為一個有正常同情心的人,很多時候我會懷疑他們真的有到人人得
> 而諸之的程度嗎?
你這樣憑著自己一時的情感"正常同情心"一昧否定死刑總是不太好。
死刑犯也並非人人誅之,你犯了推論他人心態的錯誤
同情不同情與執不執行死刑無關,甚至可以很同情罪犯地對罪犯執行死刑
這是完全沒有問題的

因為憑著自己一時的情感一昧的否定是不正確的
正如人權團體仗著自己的對罪犯的同情,去否定罪罰,心態非常扭曲

> 各位總說人權團體的發聲是因為人權團體的親人沒有被這些殺人犯所殺害,我也同
> 意將心比心很重要,但是我也期許各位在說這些話的同時,想像一下這個畫面:「
> 你昨天和你的小學同學出去玩,今天警察闖進你家把你抓起來,說你涉嫌殺害一對
> 夫妻,你否認犯行,接著被刑求30個小時後終於受不了自白,被帶到法庭上,法官
> 一看你就說你不是好人,最後判決有罪,唯一死刑」(蘇建和案實例),這時新聞報
> 導會說你是壞人,所有你認識的人都會說你是壞人,你該怎麼辦呢?
這種推論沒有用,無助討論,所以我也不會問你如果親人被殺害會怎樣

> 很多時候人權團體並非這麼不堪,也許各位不認同他們處理這件事情的方式,但其
> 實他們也做了許多其他的事情,希望各位在批評時,能在這件事情上人權團體的做
> 的好不好來批評,要批評整個人權團體,希望也能參考一下他們曾經為台灣人權發
> 展所做的努力一併參考。
時空背景不同,它過去做的好事並不是支持它現在幹的好事的理由

2009-06-12 @ 01:44
迴響 from: 夜神LP [訪問者]
有人一定很奇怪,為何那些人權團體、律師、教授
,甚至是法務部長。會這麼想推動廢除死刑。

為了錢---不是。
為了權---不是。

桀桀桀~

這都是為了能在歷史上留名啊。

對這些有錢有權的人來說,有什麼比在歷史上留
下一筆,來得更有吸引力。

想想看,未來,歷史會寫著:
某某法務部長,任內推動了廢除死刑。使台灣的
人權邁向新的階段。

某某學者教授,生涯中努力推動人權,對廢除死
刑的成功,是功不可沒的。

某某人權團體,花了無數心血與心力,在某年某
日終於成功的廢除死刑。該團體在台灣歷史上絕
對應值得紀念尊重。

往後書上寫到廢除死刑,他們都是要被提到的。
連維基都要記上他們一筆呀。

有什麼比在歷史留名,更吸引有權有勢的人呢。


有部和律師有關的電影《魔鬼代言人》
艾爾帕西諾說:
『虛榮,一向是我最愛的原罪呀。』

桀桀桀~


2009-06-12 @ 01:52
迴響 from: 一個法官之子 [訪問者]
***--
我老爸是個高等法院的退休庭長,也曾判過人死刑;曾經跟他聊過,知道要三審定獻的死刑判決真的不是很容易。也許許多人不知道,我們的最高法院只做書面審,只要挑判決書中一句話,就可以發回更審,所以你現在看到的三審定獻的判決,都是高院庭長下的,然後最高法院同意罷了!

對於死刑的判決,最高法院的審查更是嚴格,更N審不算罕見,不過我老爸已經退休10多年了,沒聽他說起最近誇張的三年都無執行死刑的感想。

他也曾說過,判人死刑絕對不好受,若不是罪無可逭他也不想判人死型。他還說,永遠記得那些他曾經判死的人的案件,他為被害人與判死的被告感覺遺憾.....
2009-06-12 @ 01:57
迴響 from: 定居者 [訪問者]
結果一個可以申辯的話題
在某樓的眼中又變成是用來報私仇的工具

這社會是怎麼了?
2009-06-12 @ 02:21
迴響 from: Feuer [訪問者]
還是同一句

"If bad people hurt someone you love, how far would you go to hurt them back?"
2009-06-12 @ 03:59
迴響 from: Kate [訪問者]
*****
To 換個角度想:
希望你舉蘇建和案例時是以完完全全了解過該案件並詳細看過判決書再舉例,謝謝。


2009-06-12 @ 07:25
迴響 from: james [訪問者]
我發現現在教育體制所訓練出來的社會精英#律師#真的是只會不斷的利用社會的矛盾擴大自己的利益,越矛盾越有利可圖!而不是發揮他們的職業道德為社會當好矛與盾之間的平衡者!
真的不折不扣的成為沙旦的代言人啊!社會越亂他們越有利可圖!靈魂已經站在邪惡的那邊了!
2009-06-12 @ 08:03
迴響 from: S [訪問者]
先不說要不要廢除死刑,既然已經死刑定讞了,那麼就該執行判決,不是嗎?
唉!這些人不停的在那邊辯啊辯,就像在辯白馬非馬一樣,對我來說他們只是淪於賣弄口才而已,已經沒有實質的意義了!
還是要說,已經死刑定讞的請執行!!
2009-06-12 @ 08:36
迴響 from: 野喵的命理好好玩 [訪問者] · http://blog.myorz.com
反對死刑,死了讓加害者一了百了,
太過輕鬆了,
學新加坡,每天抓出來鞭,
讓加害者知道什麼是痛苦。
2009-06-12 @ 09:10
迴響 from: mio [訪問者]
from: 阿勇 [訪問者]
以下是我找到的轉貼文章,原出處的無名關閉,不過你可以參可一下,關於日本對一個未滿十八歲的少年判死刑的案例,http://www.wretch.cc/blog/Nanako021370/6638159

擷文來至上面網址。
"被告福田的母親是自殺身亡,被告因為渴望母愛,希望被母親擁抱的慾望過於強烈,才會在見到被害人時情不自禁的抱緊被害人,最後造成被害人死亡的遺憾.被告並非是強姦目的而侵入民宅,而是想求取失去的母愛.至於被害人死後還對被害人屍姦的行為,世紀辯護團的律師是這樣辯解的----因為被告福田認為,只要將精子送入被害人的體內,被害人就會起死回生.所以死後對遺體的性行為並非汙辱遺體,而是一種起死回生的儀式.至於用繩索勒斃夕夏小妹妹也不是心存殺意.因為夕夏妹妹一直哭泣,福田被告想讓夕夏妹妹停止哭泣,所以在她的脖子上綁上蝴蝶結而已."
==========================================

這就是21位人權大律師的集體智慧所做出的辯答嗎?突然覺得台灣輸了(握拳...)

"三名律師,一個執行長聯名的文章中,最有力說鐘德樹罪不致死的理由竟然是:他犯罪之前去找過警察?"
2009-06-12 @ 09:14
迴響 from: 林于峻 [訪問者]
*****
蘇建和案?! 哈! 又拿「蘇建和案」來說嘴~
案發當時,比此案還誇張的冤獄、枉死一大堆!
為什麼只有「蘇建和案」受到高度重視?!
原來是家屬花了大把鈔票買通關係!
花大錢請人權律師、人權團體!
炒作「人權」!

什麼「人權至上」?
錢! 錢! 錢! 錢! 錢! 錢! 錢!
錢才是一切!
2009-06-12 @ 09:36
迴響 from: Nowe [訪問者]
作姦犯科都是情非得已啊~~
誰天生想做歹子呢?
阿彌陀佛

幹~ 就是有人天生想做歹子啦
腦殘人權(貴)團體
2009-06-12 @ 09:38
迴響 from: 大頭 [訪問者]
贊成死刑+1
如果什麼都可以被原諒,
那這個世界還有公理嗎?
是不是做壞事都可以這樣無所謂?
還是跟你說聲對不起,其他算你倒楣?

只要一想到如果我的親人好友被殺害、被強姦,
我卻不能親眼看到兇手被處決,
我心裡就一陣悲憤.
只有這些沒血沒淚的偽君子,
才會講一些無關痛癢的屁話!!

有個傳教士聽到一個酋長跟他說
"只有不敬神和通姦會被判死刑",
傳教士問他"那殺人怎麼辦",
酋長回答他"喔,上帝是仁慈的"
這就是那些偽君子的荒謬邏輯!!
2009-06-12 @ 09:46
迴響 from: Victor [訪問者]
to 遊盪者
你哪隻眼睛看到朱宅爸出來帶頭啊?
不過是鄉民們大夥湊個熱鬧,
宅爸真要帶頭還輪得到你在這亂放槍嗎?
真要戰也用功點嘛!
爬個文再來吧,
加油,好嗎?
2009-06-12 @ 09:49
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
噗~沒有動力再說什麼了。
我還是反對死刑。
大概會被歸類成冷血道德魔人吧 XDD

最近在寫女性主義相關的論文,其實發現現在很多新興議題都被炒的火熱,人權、性別、多元,
似乎這些都成為主流,
可是我認為這些只是反動而已。就像海面上偶然來的一陣大波浪。
整個社會深層階層應該還是不動如山的。
(就像民進黨偶然間的翻盤 XDD)

不過,看樣子大家普遍認為現在人權是主流當道,屬於權勢份子。

我推朱宅在某個留言的回應:
(Lucifer:你搞錯了,我兩邊其實都有作,不想拿出來講而已。)

各位夥伴,如果你真的關心受害者或家害者事件的發展,就去信、去接觸、去關心吧。
他們如果知道各位這麼支持他們,他們也才走的下去這條漫漫無盡的訴訟之路。
2009-06-12 @ 10:06
迴響 from: 黑夜浮雲 [訪問者]
*****
這是我在這個網站兩年多快三年來第二次發言
我想講的事情有兩件
1.TO 黑色娑羅雙樹:
你說朱大在打嘴砲?
你怎麼知道他什麼都沒做?
那你又做了些什麼?
(我也來裝一下人權者的嘴臉好了)
子曰:君子於其所不知蓋闕如也
回去唸唸書再來吧!
2.有16個字可以代表我的想法:
古有明訓
欠債還錢
殺人償命
天公地道

今天不好的事情在歷史的長河中早已逐漸被淘汰
(例如焚書坑儒)
能夠留下來的必定有其存在的意義
古代為仇拔劍取人性命已不被時代允許
替代的只有不見得能為眾人所接受的所謂的法律
為什麼我們今天不見得喜歡卻只能信任它?
只因...
法律之前人人平等
不因財富身分地位權勢而有差別待遇
現在這些滿嘴唱高調的人卻想來破壞這個鐵則?
我的想法也許很偏激
但是今天若是我的親人遭到歹徒冷血的殺害
法院/人權團體還在那兒
要求寬恕
要求人權
要求改過自新的機會
那我也會像日本報導的那位先生一樣
等待機會親手殺了對方
而且保證會讓他死的苦狀萬分
為什麼?
為什麼我的想法會這麼偏激會這麼灰色?
因為已經沒有東西能讓我信任了
連寫的清清楚楚的法條都可以遭人背棄?
當只剩下自己可以相信的時候
就是以牙還牙以血還血的時候了
當正義無法執行
當公理不在存在
對一個受害者而言 你還能要求他相信什麼?
當然就只剩下黑暗裡的制裁這條路可走了
不過別怕 我相信就算報仇行為做了 也成功了
也不會有人判死刑的
2009-06-12 @ 10:23
迴響 from: I am 晃晃 [訪問者] · http://j.cards.twirc.org
其實這是一個很大的問題
這問題在台灣至少討論有 2-30 年以上了
但, 敝人覺得討論的焦點往往被誤導

如果台灣的司法審判制度不先改革
放任法官就可以獨大(不始獨立審判)決定一個人的生死
那死刑就該廢止

因為, 那些被誤判又沒錢上訴的不也是弱勢?

英美法系還是相對比較審慎
至少有陪審團制度
先決定有罪或無罪, 再交給法官量刑

唉.. 司法改革路迢迢阿
2009-06-12 @ 10:30
迴響 from: 碎棉部族 [訪問者]
***--
所以說有人認為殺父母可以不判死刑,
加害人人權萬歲~和諧社會的典範
2009-06-12 @ 10:31
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/baabuu
*****
***
閱畢~~

====
趕快去找台織布機吧......
2009-06-12 @ 10:39
迴響 from: 大頭 [訪問者]
"用死刑來執行正義是最差勁的方式,如果其他的方式都不算的話"
這是我的感想

願受害者安息
2009-06-12 @ 10:49
迴響 from: 一個學法律的人 [訪問者]
***--
首先我想要先表達自己的立場,就是『如果能證明這個加害人是以兇殘的手段使人致死,且犯後毫無悔意的話,我贊成執行死刑』。
但是審判一個人是否有罪,其實是非常困難的,因為法官也只是人,而不是神,他們只能就現有的證據,推測犯罪真相,所以他們不得不小心謹慎。
其實之所以現在會討論是否廢除死刑,我想很大一部份原因在於,司法人員的素質以大幅提升,他們無法蒙上雙眼大筆一揮的判人死刑,其實這些「嫌疑犯」的生命跟無辜的被害者的生命應該是等價的,不應該輕易的剝奪他們的生命。
就拿蘇建和案來說,之所以遲遲沒有執行死刑是因為當初所有一切指向他們犯罪的證據太過薄弱,甚至其中一名最清楚犯罪過程之被告,早已被軍法判處並執行死刑,而留下一堆問號。再加上早期檢警偵訊過程中逼供取證枝手段五花八門,所以冤獄案件不少,所以冤死的犯罪嫌疑人所在多有。
反過來說,我想問大家,如果你們是這些冤死的嫌犯之家屬,你們心中會作何感想,難道你們不會怨恨嗎?不會想要以死的親人再度復活嗎?但是,現實生活中死人是不會復活的。
也許會有人說,只要法官的素質在提升,就不會有冤獄啦,那執行死刑就沒什麼大問題了。但我想說的是,在現在的制度下,司法案件不可能毫無瑕疵,因為現況下法官每個月所要負責的案件每人至少是100件起跳,而又不知道是誰規定的法官人數限制,所以在修法前,法官人數是無法大幅提升,所以即使是所有法官每天花三分之二以上的時間在工作,司法案件的瑕疵仍然會存在。更不用說有不少法官過勞死。
我相信如果不是被害人的家屬,其他人是部會百分之百體會他們喪親之痛,但冤死的犯嫌家屬他們的喪親之痛何嘗不是如此。
之前有人說不如辦個執行死刑公投好了,但是公投是有其限制的,具有「不可回復性」的事件是不適宜公投的,因為如果下次的民意改變時,可能就無法回復了。如果人的生命是不可回復的,那麼就不要以多數決之方式結束他人之生命。
在刑事案件中,最重要的就是證據,證據是會說話的,但它也只能誠實的陳述事實,但是並不能交代發生之前因後果,不能說明它是不是別人栽贓嫁禍的,其實這些可能性電視劇都曾演過。
最後我想說的是,如果所有調查過程中每一個環節中都不會出問題,導出的判決結果與真實的事實相符,而犯嫌殺人如麻且不知悔改時,我贊成執行死刑,但時如果沒有辦法保證判決過程中毫無瑕疵時,我不再乘執行死刑。因為我認為我寧願挽救一個無辜的犯嫌其寶貴的性命,也無法在同「寧可殺錯,而不放過」的處理方式。
執行死刑的前提是絕對正確的審判結果,而有些學者贊成廢除死刑或許是想避免在有瑕疵的判決下造成冤魂,因為只要法條中有死刑之規定,就難保法官不會輕率的判處死刑,所以有些人才反對。
我相信沒有人喜歡奪去無辜犯嫌之生命,也沒有人想讓殺人魔仍有假釋出獄之機會,但是現實中很難求其兩全,所以對於執行死刑我採取比較保留之看法。
我也是一個即將進入司法職場的菜鳥,就我的認知中,絕大多是的法官是認真負責的,但仍有少數司法敗類混雜其中,希望大家不要一竿子打翻一船人。
2009-06-12 @ 10:57
迴響 from: 不懂 [訪問者]
*****
支持

「你就他媽的告訴我那三十二個定讞的死刑犯那個是冤獄、假案,哪些就像你所說的因為去過警察局而罪不致死啊!讓大家看看這些死刑犯有多麼充足的理由是那麼的不應該跟社會隔絕啊!」

我很感動還有像朱大這樣關心社會而撕聲力竭。

我覺得看完這篇文章後,讓我充份瞭解人權團體忽略被害人家屬心情,僅僅就「是否應該執行死刑?」來討論,是一種很膚淺、無知而自我、傲慢的角度。



2009-06-12 @ 11:04
迴響 from: Johhan [訪問者]
應該成立一個受害者聯盟,成員是這些死刑犯的受害者
2009-06-12 @ 11:04
迴響 from: 碎棉部族 [訪問者]
***--
不過不小心殺個人,無意識強姦幾個過路人,
順手丟嬰兒下湯鍋而已,大不了在騎樓放火,
有到判死刑的地步嗎?
沒有嗎~請關懷可憐的加害人好嗎
請支持廢除死刑,讓獸行人再次融入社會溫暖的懷抱,
上面那些ㄐㄐ歪歪的學究,打那麼長的字幹啥?看了就不爽~不就是些支持廢除死刑的西裝畜生.
跟我念一遍:請支持
強姦殺人無罪,打手槍三年六個月
2009-06-12 @ 11:13
迴響 from: 宅貓M [訪問者]
*****
死刑可以不用執行,那罰單也都不用繳了啊!
2009-06-12 @ 11:29
迴響 from: bill1712 [訪問者] · http://blog.udn.com
王清峰部長,可以在證據能力完全偏頗的真調會中,無需對當事人調查做出「自導自演」的結論;可以拋開偵查不公開與中立原則上節目去玩call in;讓兩件台灣史上重大案件偵辦不但未明朗且整個low掉,還自以為對藍軍頗有貢獻的自喜。

這樣的法學素養,因「人權」還不簽署罪證確鑿的死刑犯執行命令,不單是因為他自以為是的理念,還因為他沒有足夠當部長的能力,要他真做些什麼事,必須老馬出來指示他一切。

這種自命清高實則無能的部長,只顧跟檢查系統鬥法,只等著藍委無奈的送暖,只忘批評他的人被支持者打成綠營,期待他些什麼!!
2009-06-12 @ 11:44
迴響 from: 環保再利用 [訪問者]
在正常的情況下,一般的社會大眾,都不希望自己成為受害者或者是加害者。被害者痛恨加害者的加害而受到傷害,而希望經由公審死刑來加諸於加害者的身上,希望加害者得到相同的懲罰,反觀受害者經過法律判處死刑,來加諸於加害者身上,反而使受還者經過合法程序加諸於加害者身上,兩個角度,相同的手法和結果,只不過這當中存在著合法和非法而已,但是這當中都有加害者與被害者。個人覺得,所謂的「死刑」對社會一點助益都沒有,我會建議政府判加害者終身監禁,不得假釋獲減刑,罰勞役(指工作不是當米虫給政府養)以有限生命回饋社會。











2009-06-12 @ 11:46
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
*****
to 一個學法律的人

所以我很討厭學法的人,你們就和某黨一樣只會打嘴砲。
來看看你的論點:

『如果能證明這個加害人是以兇殘的手段使人致死,且犯後毫無悔意的話...』

兩個謬誤:
1. 如果能證明這個加害人是以兇殘的手段使人致死

你知道彭婉如是如何殺害親夫的嗎?鐵鎚和刀子。
用這兩個東西殺人,手段會是如何相信大家心知肚明。
那為何彭婉如沒被判死刑?現在平靜的生活著~
這表明了法官的判決,有其前因後果的斟酌與依據。
兇不兇殘並不是重點

2. 且犯後毫無悔意
要如何證明罪犯毫無悔意呢?
或另一方面,一個淚流滿面、信教、抄寫經文教典、寫書的罪犯,真的就《充滿悔意》了?
重刑犯出獄後又殺人的例子不是沒有過啊~
甚至都有被某黨保出來然後殺人的咧
誰來證明悔意?


學法者是這種程度,增加再多法官也沒用......
2009-06-12 @ 11:49
迴響 from: AIRPRO [訪問者]
等到廢除死刑的人自己成為受害人時
再來靠北廢除啦
於幾無損都可以講的很大聲啦
2009-06-12 @ 11:50
迴響 from: 史恩 [訪問者]
****-
法律都是學法的人編寫出來的啊...
都是在搞文字遊戲
所謂的司法根本不是在比誰對誰錯,誰是站在正義那一方
而是在比誰比較會從法條文字裡頭鑽漏洞,找縫鑽而已...
2009-06-12 @ 11:59
迴響 from: danny [訪問者]

執行死刑就是在維護死刑犯的人權

執行死刑就是在維護死刑犯的人權

執行死刑就是在維護死刑犯的人權
2009-06-12 @ 12:22
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
對啊!
我爸媽不給我錢、不買東西給我、車子不給我開,就是他們的錯!殺了他們也不過剛剛好而已,為什麼我要被判死刑?我很可憐耶!我也有人權耶!我沒有錢花、沒有名牌用、沒有車子可以開!我很可憐耶!
2009-06-12 @ 12:37
迴響 from: 臺語是客家話 [訪問者] · http://lkksdgod.blogspot.com
那些法官沒擔當,領高薪的米蟲,不敢終結審判!
2009-06-12 @ 12:59
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
哇~
抄了心經就知道自己錯了耶!那以後就都罰抄心經就好了啊!就不要死刑了啊!因為每個人抄了心經之後就都大澈大悟了喔!




我懷疑他真的知道心經上面寫了些什麼.......囧"
2009-06-12 @ 13:01
迴響 from: 約翰走路 [訪問者]
關於維持or廢除死刑這一個議題,
還具有討論空間,所謂的人權團體可以繼續關注在此議題,並尋求和主流社會的共識

但,對於已經"定獻",已經經由龐大的司法機制,長時間反覆地審理調查,所得出結論的死刑案件
理應立即執行

一則還給受害家屬一個公道
再則顯示國家司法體系的魄力

乾脆,一口氣把32個已經定獻的死刑犯在同一天通通處決~(治安搞不好會短期內大幅上升~)

然後再來討論死刑的留存與否吧~

2009-06-12 @ 13:01
迴響 from: 阿達 [訪問者] · http://kocpc.pixnet.net/blog
除了憤怒還是憤怒,年底民進黨不是要搞公投?
要玩就玩大的把確實執行死刑與擴大死刑範圍(製毒、販毒、隨機殺人、姦殺、殺害直系親屬、販賣製造槍枝都列入唯一死刑),比公投那個狗屁ECFA有意義一萬倍!
請問有無法律系的大大指導一下人民如何行使創制權?有無總統身邊的紅人讓總統看看他所謂奉行的人權是犧牲了多少無辜人民的人權來換的?
2009-06-12 @ 13:16
迴響 from: 臺語是客家話 [訪問者] · http://lkksdgod.blogspot.com
死刑應該是要留給罪證確鑿的殺人兇手,例如:新莊白骨姦殺命案的殺人兇手。

死刑不是用來嚇阻犯罪,殺人犯殺人當時根本沒有想到死刑問題,因此死刑是事後追懲。請反死刑者不要再拿個理由說嘴。

中華民國的無期徒刑是關滿一定時間,監獄就會讓無期徒刑罪犯假釋出獄。例如洪曉慧殺人,被關個幾年就出獄了,我想他真的很高興在臺灣殺人不用被槍斃。

可以一國兩制嗎?讓那些反死刑的人養那些殺人兇手!老子我不想把稅金花在殺人兇手身上。
2009-06-12 @ 13:20
迴響 from: 有權亦應有責 [訪問者]
很簡單啊~

廢除死刑,那死刑犯就關在監獄。

而所有支持廢除死刑的團體,學者及官員,甚至只
要是支持廢除死刑的人。都要跟政府簽訂一份契約。

由這些支持廢除死刑的人,來負擔死刑犯關在監獄
所花費的費用。
此外,當死刑犯出獄再犯後,由這些支持的人負
連帶賠償責任。

如果能作到這樣,就由你們去搞好了。
反正有人願意負責呀~

2009-06-12 @ 13:41
迴響 from: 強人鐵忠 [訪問者]
前幾篇有人講到,要批評這些人權團體前,也要看看他們做了多少有用的事,蘇建和這件事我同意,不過話說回來,是不是只要我做了對社會有益的事,就可以合理化我的錯誤?

廢死在執行死刑的阻擾上,本來就應該被質疑,甚至應該被批評!

不簽署死刑令的法務部長,也應該要下台!因為這根本就違背自己在這個位子上的責任!

所以 也許你們做了好事,但是 一但你去阻止正義公理的執行 我們就是要罵! 還要用力的罵!
2009-06-12 @ 14:04
迴響 from: 人妻 [訪問者]
小的時候,我曾經非常贊成死刑,畢竟這看似是一種最直接的正義。我也曾經認為,為了理念,我願意讓我父親、弟弟、小孩,甚至我自己都上戰場。
但是現在我有了兩個小孩,逐漸了解生命是怎麼一回事。
如果我的親友被人傷害,甚至我的孩子被人殺害,即使讓我親手處決兇手,他們也不會再活起來。而兇手的死亡,只是加深我對這件事情的痛苦,與我生命中的黑暗而已。生命不是可以對等賠償的東西。
我不敢假清高說我一定可以原諒兇手,但至少我一定不會希望因此再有更多死亡。(如果兇手是電視上那種連續殺人犯當然另當別論啦)
我曾經短暫的當過老師,了解到每個問題學生背後都有一個問題家庭,而問題家庭其實常常來自社會問題。許多刑事案件也是如此,經常是多重扭曲之下的產物。
一些網友提到亂世用重典,在許多戰亂頻仍的地區,他們的『典』顯然比我們重很多,但他們的社會治安顯然沒有比我們高明。其實最重的『典』多半存在戰亂國家的軍隊裡面,有些是游擊隊,有些是用以控制童兵。
社會失業問題嚴重,於是有人建議大家去作無薪工;對我來說,死刑就是這種捨本逐末的邏輯。
推前面網友提的:龍騎士07說過『如果一個人心中產生了不殺人解決不了問題的想法,那就是通往悲劇的捷徑』而符合人性的作法,並不一定就是正確的作法,畢竟人性也是有很多黑暗面的。

潛水已久,首次覺得有發言的必要。祝福即將為人父的朱大。
2009-06-12 @ 14:04
迴響 from: F3 [訪問者]
To RR:
彭...彭婉如幾時殺夫來著...他確實沒被判死刑...因為彭婉如是死於命案...

你講的用刀/鎚殺夫的是鄧如雯吧!
2009-06-12 @ 14:05
迴響 from: leoliao [訪問者]
我不是唸法律的,所以可能資料解讀不夠精確。

其實我們的法官還滿認真的,因為依司法院的統計資料,刑事訴訟上訴第二審終結件數---按終結(審判)情形 (http://www.judicial.gov.tw/juds/report/Se-3.htm) 大概都會駁回一半的上訴。

再看刑事訴訟上訴第三審終結件數---按終結(審判)情形分(http://www.judicial.gov.tw/juds/report/Sb-3.htm )又是駁回一半的上訴。

再看判定罪名,高等法院受理重大刑案科刑人數---按罪名別分
( http://www.judicial.gov.tw/juds/report/Se-8.htm) 可以發現有很多項的罪名會上訴。人權團體擔心的,擄人勒贖既逐而致人於死或重傷罪,反而很少。
 
再看判定的刑責。高等法院受理重大刑案被告人數---按裁判結果分( http://www.judicial.gov.tw/juds/report/Se-7.htm ) 民國88年~90年起,死刑與無期徒刑的比率約為1:2。民國91年~94年,死刑與無期徒刑的比率約為1:3。民國94年至今,死刑與無期徒刑的比率約為1:5。

死刑人數本來就比無期徒刑人數少!

經過這樣層層篩選,實在想不出不簽執行令的理由。

來源:司法統計指標
http://www.judicial.gov.tw/juds/index1.htm
2009-06-12 @ 14:14
迴響 from: ㄏㄏㄏ [訪問者]
我只站在天秤平衡的中間,有罪之人,本來就是要受到應有的罰則,這是亙古不斷的道理。

可惜現今的法律,不能說是向某一邊所傾斜,但是其實也差不多了,古代的約法三章中的殺人者死,但是如今,殺人者依舊逍遙法外,死刑遲遲未能判處,讓死者死不瞑目,這社會早就傾向,有權有勢有錢的那一方了。

道德淪喪的現今,是不是應該出現一位以正義自詡的蜘袾人或是蝙輻俠,才能維持社會的公理正義呢?

如果是,那為免太過悲哀了吧。

人權團體,那些人如果自已的親人或是自已經歷過那些不平等的對待時,他們又會怎麼看待,為罪犯開脫這件事呢?

又或者是死刑廢除,將那些罪犯流放到荒島,他們自自給自足,假使不能自給自足的叫,就讓他們自生自滅,如果是這樣子,我想沒人會反對的。

但是,我想這是不可能實現的,因為身處太過自由的地方,所有人都太過自由,連思想也太過自由了,已致於人權團體,的思想演變成太過自由了,所以才會出現在這類太過自由的謬論。

用太過自由的確蠻適合用於那些學者、人權團體,因為他們平常都沒啥事情,才會幻想者人性本善、知錯能改,但是卻忘了,不是每個都是人性本善,不是每個人都會知錯能改。
2009-06-12 @ 14:19
迴響 from: 65 [訪問者]
说支持廢除死刑的人們
要不要先體會一下家人被虐死的痛苦
在來支持殺害你家人的犯人不要死?
不能體會說的都是屁話
我也想過人權團體的家人被殺了還能不能堅持廢除死刑呢...
可以的話就真的是大愛了
2009-06-12 @ 14:25
迴響 from: May [訪問者]
轉貼的日本案例中, 那句"只有自己生命受到威脅的時候, 才會了解生命的尊嚴與意義" 難以想像阿, 我國的刑法繼受德國日本, 這樣的日本想法, 不知道何時會傳遞給我國的法律人呢?
2009-06-12 @ 14:38
迴響 from: 黑色娑羅雙樹 [訪問者]
我又來了
因為我看到朱大有回我的留言

朱大,我不是吐你槽
我也知道你有寄卡片給劉警員家人
我只是在提醒你
你說你有做了什麼,只是不想拿出來說
但是你在這樣狂罵別人的時後
可也有想過,他們是不是也有做過什麼你不知道?

常常看你網誌
可是連續罵四萹是不是…

Lucifer:假設,我這麼遜沒有做過功課當然是我的錯了。但顯然我不是。我可以直接告訴你他們沒有。
2009-06-12 @ 14:40
迴響 from: 老彼得 [訪問者]
司法都是給有錢人操弄的。

昨天聽到一個消息。有幾位小朋友被老師性侵,但是因為拿不出保證金,所以即使律師願意無償辯護,也因為湊不出那幾十萬的錢而可能讓加害者逃過一劫。害我一整個心情好不起來...
2009-06-12 @ 15:22
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
老彼得:
性侵是公訴罪,跟保證金啥關係呀?
直接到警察局備案就起訴啦!
2009-06-12 @ 15:34
迴響 from: 5566 [訪問者]
這些團體有做了什麼..早就拿出來說嘴了拉..還會讓你不知道...看看那些廢死刑網站..受害人部分提了多少..就那麼少到可憐...你不妨上上他們網站..問問他們吧..也對拉..人都死了..還能做什麼..
2009-06-12 @ 15:58
迴響 from: Luke [訪問者]
*****
To 人妻:
那等你小孩如果有一天被謀害,親戚朋友被殺害,遇到這樣情形下
再看看妳是不是能抱持這樣的理論吧??

如果妳的理論,能真真正正安慰到那些受害者家屬給予他們平靜的生活,那請妳去做吧...
但妳真的知道他們要的是甚麼嗎?
人死不能復生,這誰都知道.
那麻煩給這些受害者家屬一個"公道"吧..
可是,這對他們來說,可能是盼也盼不到的.不是嗎?
2009-06-12 @ 16:16
迴響 from: Win [訪問者]
****-
亂世嘛~~
法律不彰,貧富差距大~
權貴賤踏無錢無勢的人民

乾脆揭桿起義算了,推翻"滿清"再建中華~
哇哈哈哈哈

我早就覺得該起義了,反正也沒有死刑
殺一個人也不會有死刑,不如殺個幾千幾萬人,搞個文化大革命算了,順便推翻權貴分子~

當我在看e04的楊董叫年紀人當奴隸時,
就覺得不如集結起來推翻權貴及政府算了~哈
2009-06-12 @ 17:02
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
一個毒蟲會為了吃毒
而出賣自己的全部, 或不屬於他的任何事
例如...別人的生命財產

所以毒蟲在黑道裡也是沒有立足之地的

只要有毒, 他們什麼都肯作!

那作為一位死刑罪犯呢?
同樣的, 他會為了活命, 想出種種的念頭心機
來為自己脫罪, 更何況種天上來的人權團體

只有完全斷絕"毒"的來源, 他們才會放棄慾望
好好的冷靜下來, 面對自己犯的錯!

樓上的"日本十七歲死刑犯之死"主角正是這心態!

死刑定讞不執行-矯情的人權
無期徒刑可假釋-司法的枉縱
2009-06-12 @ 17:30
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
TO:マダオ
→人的權利始於出生終於死亡

請見諒,無禮的幫您補充一下:
這段規定可見於我國民法第6條
原文是:「人之權利能力,始於出生,終於死亡。」
所謂權利能力,係指在法律上享受權利並負擔義務的能力,在法律上,權利與義務是相對的。

TO:RP
→所以我很討厭學法的人,你們就和某黨一樣只會打嘴砲。

RP大的憤怒,是可以理解的。

但是也請您瞭解,為什麼法律人要如此做的原因

教授上課時曾經說過:「法條有限、世事無窮」
形式化,固定化的法條,要如何才能適用在現今瞬息萬變的社會?

請容我舉個例子:
我國刑法第271條,學說上稱為普通殺人罪
本罪的構成要件,就法條上來看只有三個字:

「殺人者」

但這短短三字,卻不知有多少解釋以及適用上的爭議:

1.警察開槍追捕要犯,子彈卻不幸穿透嫌犯身體,致擊斃路人。
2.妻不忍已被宣佈腦幹死之夫繼續受苦,自行關閉夫的維生設備而致其夫死亡。
3.甲進入乙所有之專門馴養猛犬之土地,致猛犬一踴而上咬死甲。
4.A、B、C三人對僱主積怨已久,各自對僱主之食物加入份量不足以致死之藥物,
想給僱主一個教訓,但不料三人加藥份量之總合卻剛好達到致命之程度,該雇
主一命嗚呼。

諸多問題,難以計數
目前只能倚靠法律人對於案件事實、適用的法條,一而再,再而三的檢驗、論證
雖然,有時甚至說文解字到一種令人匪夷所思的程度
但,法律人是人,卻要承擔神的工作

多麼重的擔子

任何制度一定會有其不完美之處,法律亦然
但這已是歷經數千年演變後,人類目前所能運用最可行的方法了

死刑在我國還沒有正式修法廢除以前,就是以法律的形式存在著

「阻撓」或「規避」死刑的執行,無異於破壞法律
傷害公眾對於法律的公信力以及法確信

薩孟武 教授在「法律的鬥爭」有說道,也是我非常喜歡的一段話:
「禁止法律保護吾身,便是驅逐吾身於蠻人之中。他們是把棍子給我,叫我自己保護自己。」

─────────
朱大,你不是說要弄「小圖日」嗎!?
每次看你的BLOG都快當機拉 =皿=
2009-06-12 @ 17:42
迴響 from: Sagitta [訪問者]
仿效前些天的玩法:
1. 因為死刑宣判有四萬分之一的誤判機率,所以提議廢除死刑!
2. 因為空中巴士有?萬分之一的失事機率,所以提議禁飛銷毀!
3. 因為交通工具有?萬分之一的撞死人機率,遠比死刑誤判機率還高,因此提議禁止任何交通工具,未來只能走路,騎腳踏車都不行!

每次聽護死人士再說生命只有一次,誤判是無可彌補的:就想他們為啥不去推動交通安全或是全球糧食救貧,至少救活的次數和人數會好看很多、很多。
2009-06-12 @ 17:57
迴響 from: cheng [訪問者]
看外國電影 有被判刑二百多年的情節。常想為什麼不乾脆槍斃。那種作法才是『仁道』?真講人權,該讓死刑犯『自由選』。不過,自由選好像更殘酷。

(小人之心:)那些主張廢死刑的人,是真得在想「人權」還是為了表示自己比較文明、先進。

題外話:小時候曾看過某文章,主張用電椅取代槍斃,大意是電椅只要0.幾秒,比較不會痛苦,.....,反正電椅比較文明、仁慈;我怕觸電,反而寧願被槍斃。看了電影綠色奇蹟後,我寧願被槍斃十次也不要坐電椅;
  知道有注射毒液後,覺得這個可以考慮。不過看了某部克林伊斯威特(飾演一記者,為死刑犯翻案)電影後,覺得還是槍斃好;影片中,死刑犯像是坐電椅,後面有幾個粗大管子;太恐怖了!~ 旁邊又有一大堆人在看,太@#$%(反死刑之前,應該要先反對公開行刑)
;我還以為像是吊點滴,要是像電影演的,我寧願選槍斃。

2009-06-12 @ 18:20
迴響 from: Mark [訪問者]
其實我一直有這個想法:請這些人權團體跟大律師什麼的共同成立一家"歡迎來犯罪"公司,然後想要犯罪(不論是殺人放火強姦還是什麼的)的人進公司繳報名費領號碼牌等叫到後之後,就可以對這些人權團體什麼的本人以及其家屬做出想要做的犯罪行為!這樣子一方面犯罪者的犯罪心理得到滿足,另一方面人權團體什麼的也得到原諒他人的成就感及快感~怎麼沒人想過這麼做啊?可以增加國庫收入跟滿足各方的需求,一箭好幾鵰呢!!!
2009-06-12 @ 18:56
迴響 from: sam_宅 [訪問者]
看了兩邊的留言。

其實很簡單啊,就像是修課被當的道理。
老師一開始就跟你說:只要達到標準就不會被當。
(只要不妨礙他人自由就應當享有自由)

你作業亂寫,考試亂考,上課不到,老師怎麼讓你過?
(你殺人縱火,強姦非禮,劫財越貨,社會怎麼給你自由?)



與其在那裡幫受刑人爭自由人權,倒不如想想受害者及其家屬的人權吧!
2009-06-12 @ 19:02
迴響 from: aiueo [訪問者]
我是一個剛受洗的基督徒.
我知道2件事.
1.唯有耶和華
2.待人如待己


就讓人權團體的家人被強姦殺害看看.
這樣都能原諒.那我也沒話說...
2009-06-12 @ 19:15
迴響 from: owen [訪問者]
To 一個學法律的人:

簡單來說,您認為司法人員素質參差不齊而且工作量大,無法避免誤判的可能性,所以應該廢止死刑,對吧?
那同樣的,我們是不是也應該要求廢止有期徒刑跟無期徒刑?不是同一批人在審判嗎?難道誤判機率會因為刑罰不同而降低或消失?還是您認為,因為徒刑沒有剝奪人的生命,即使誤判也無所謂?
您覺得把一個人關了二十年,然後跟他說「對不起,我搞錯了!還好你沒死,回家好生過活吧!」之類的話是合理的?留人一條命算是司法的恩典,還是施捨?難道您認為司法可以這樣運作?難道這就是您所謂的尊重人權?
「只要是誤判,別說死刑了,那怕只是錯關一天,都是司法的恥辱。」,如果一個法律人連這點自覺都沒有,我不曉得您有什麼立場在這邊夸夸其言。老實說,在您字裡行間裡,我看到的不是對人權的尊重,而是一種對人權的輕蔑和司法的傲慢!
2009-06-12 @ 19:22
迴響 from: alstonh [訪問者]
*****
朱兄
個人覺得這個"廢除死刑"這個議題,並不完全跟死刑犯有錢有勢有很直接的關係。 個人覺得這跟施暴者(死刑犯)和施暴者(死刑犯)家屬的"動力"有最直接的關係。
因為這個關係到他們的直接利益(死刑犯不爭取必死無疑)。所以很容易串聯到一堆共同利益的人來成立他媽的利益團體以及他媽的狗屁聯盟。
反觀受害者,就很難聚集這種共同團體與聯盟。 所以聲音就很小甚至聽不到啦。
講白話點,一群死刑犯以及死刑犯家屬的聲音,永遠都比10群受害者以及受害者家屬大聲且團結。因為死刑犯們不喊大聲點 明天就看不到太陽了(動力很強,戰鬥力屬於超級賽亞人等級)

另外 小弟我個人很懷疑那些狗屁律師聯盟他們那麼認真反對死刑,除了金錢上的顧慮外 是否在為自己哪天"涷不住"犯下死刑罪鋪路阿????

最後 我選擇跟朱大站在同一陣線
2009-06-12 @ 20:03
迴響 from: 不懂 [訪問者]
*****
給 人妻:

妳有兩個小孩,但妳不曾身為被害人家屬(祈禱妳永遠不會)。

模擬自身沒有的經驗,意欲說服已經體驗此種經驗的人,是一件很沒有說服力,也相當不公道的事。

請尊重被害人家屬的感受!!

同時,即使不幸自己身為被害人家屬,並選擇原諒,更不可以做為說服別人必須選擇原諒的理由,因為任何個案都不可以等同視之。
2009-06-12 @ 20:08
迴響 from: 一個學法律的人 [訪問者]
TO:owen
或許您誤會我的意思了,我想說的是因為基於對於生命的尊重,所以對於作成任何一個剝奪別人生命的決定都需要思考在三。
就如同我先前所說的,我並不反對死刑,但前提是要能百分之百確定他殺了人,就如同我並不反對法官判陳進興死刑,因為那是如此清楚的事實,但是除此之外有多少的案件事實是模糊的,法官在審判庭上所做的事情是聽取雙方所提出的事實及證據後本於其心證作出判決,或許大家可以試著去想,如果有一天您被人誣陷殺人而當雙方所提出的證據都只能間接的證明人是你殺的,而唯一的目擊證人又不幸死亡時,法官應該如何下判決?被害人是無辜的,而犯罪嫌疑人又何嘗不是無辜的呢?其實在法庭上每一位證人都有說謊的可能,也只能由法官去思考其證詞的可信度,但這確實是一份艱難的工作,怎可能毫不與事實有所出入呢。
我相信沒有法官願意發生誤判的事實,而且也不是說因為有期徒刑沒有人死,就可以隨便判。只是就算盡了多大的努力,法官所能做的就是將事實釐清與案發時大致相同,但是法官並不是當事人,所以他也沒辦法確信是否以還原真相,有時就連被害人與犯嫌都無法將所有的是回想起來,更何況是法官。
其實如果只要說說漂亮的場面話,那誰都會說,我也會說如果有一天我是法官,我絕對查明所有犯罪事實,還被害人一個公道,絕對是勿枉勿縱。但是有這容易嗎?你到底有百分之百的信心及把握?還是你「認為」你有百分之百的信心及把握?
我相信學法律的人是要謙卑的,掌握別人生死的法官更需要謙卑。也許是因為事關重大,所以法官們更是小心翼翼,因為若是輕率的判人生死,那與殺人犯何異,若是戒慎恐懼的作成判決後,也執刑完畢後,才發現判決當時雙方未曾提出即發現的關鍵證據時,當時判死的法官們心中絕對不好過。
法官只是盡量把神的工作做好,但他不是神!
因為對人權的尊重所以不想讓無辜的人犧牲,因為知道司法的能力有限所以才要更小心謹慎!






2009-06-12 @ 20:39
迴響 from: Lun [訪問者]
受害者的痛,那些廢除死刑團體的人根本就不懂
他們沒經歷過,一昧的要照顧加害人的人權,那受害者家屬的人權呢?死的人不是他們的親人,當然只會在那打打嘴炮,等到死的是他的親人、子女,殺1個、2個、好幾個,他還能大聲的說要廢除死刑?
2009-06-12 @ 21:26
迴響 from: Beotos [訪問者] · http://www.gamebase.com.tw/mybase/kenneth1991
沒有理據
不合理盲目去保護「人權」
只不過是一種「羊群」
屬於「愚仁」的「羊群」



Beotos
2009-06-12 @ 21:36
迴響 from: 老宅男 [訪問者]
信不信
假如朱大成立"反廢死聯盟",而且我們一大票人參與連署,與廢死聯盟分庭抗禮,最後這些死刑犯反而會成為悲劇英雄,我們會淪為沒人性不重人權的壞人喔!
2009-06-12 @ 21:40
迴響 from: Beotos [訪問者] · http://www.gamebase.com.tw/mybase/kenneth1991
我忽然想起「The Witcher」 都一句說話
「與法律和道德掛勾的邪惡,才是最大的邪惡。」
想起也是
那些人根本不明白什麼是「人權」
不過只是叫喊著
「人權、人權、人權…」



Beotos…
2009-06-12 @ 21:52
迴響 from: zero [訪問者]
給人犬団體的一句話:

一遍死んで見る!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2009-06-12 @ 22:39
迴響 from: 異形 [訪問者] Email
法律本來就是文字遊戲

就算是同一個法條
不同的學者就會有不同的解釋

人是在代替神做只有神才能做的事
神都有可能會犯錯了
更何況是人?

要怪就去怪自己為何要選那些不把法律修好只會作秀報料的立委為你服務!




最後送各位一句話:
真理報上沒真理,人權團體沒人權
2009-06-12 @ 23:23
迴響 from: 宅化中 [訪問者]
整理一下廢死聯盟的名單吧

這樣我才知道哪天我真的想殺人的時候該先殺誰
2009-06-12 @ 23:31
迴響 from: 路過 [訪問者]
***--
看大家支持了那麼多有關亂世重典的看法,
那我提出另外一個看法,
我先援引一位鄉民於上文的看法:
『亂世嘛~~
法律不彰,貧富差距大~
權貴賤踏無錢無勢的人民』
這裡點出,亂世是「指法律不能獲得彰顯,
並同時造成人民的飢苦的一段時間。」
那麼,在這樣一般百姓生活困頓的社會之下,
飢寒起盜心的可能也會隨之增加,
這是人對於自己生命現象之延續最基本的需求,
所以飢寒而起的盜心,
我認為擇用極重的刑罰,
是無法減低如此的犯罪類型,
即使偷取饅頭,是唯一死刑。
依然無法嚇阻以上的犯罪情形,
因為不偷取饅頭,而必然餓死,
與之偷取饅頭,可能會被抓獲處死,
對於犯罪人是無異的,甚至寧可選擇鋌而走險。
最後,我傾向「亂世用寬典」,
亂世之下,廣大的一般百姓不是該負責的禍首,
他們只能先是受害者,轉變為犯罪者,
只是一味地清除所有人民,來弭平犯罪高漲,
是飲鴆止渴。
2009-06-12 @ 23:32
迴響 from: 路過的異鄉人 [訪問者]
***--
>>因為你不是大家,但既然你不是大家,又怎會知道大家喜不喜歡罪犯呢?
>>原來你不知道,你不知道大家喜不喜歡罪犯,但你猜測大家不喜歡罪犯,
>>然後又以大家不喜歡罪犯(還是你猜測的喔)的理由訴諸情感,你們看!
的確,人與人是無法溝通。
既使最簡單的語意,
都會被受話者以自身經驗理解。
但是,說話者的表達的是自我經驗感受,
雙方必然有所差距。
每個人大多數都有遭到父母責打的經驗,
經驗者就算用一樣的詞彙來陳述過往當時,
那種感受也不可能是一樣的。
是此個人經驗無法被全然複製。
不過人的社會是群體的,
非是個人能建構與運作的眾多行為,
所以人必須嘗試溝通,企求可能理解與基礎共識,達到社會運作與個人需要。
在以上的應然與實然之下,
人的主觀世界確實存在著落差。

>>在刑事案件中,最重要的就是證據,證據是會說話的,但它也只能誠實的陳述事實,
>>但是並不能交代發生之前因後果,不能說明它是不是
與其說證據會說話,
不如說是解釋者讓證據說話,
眾多可能性之下,其實也只是解釋者個人的認知與陳述而已。

在現世的社會中,要讓人來審判一切的是非,
也許太難了。
經過無數次的思辯與攻擊之下。
也許後世者會有另眾滿人意的辦法
當下的一切,留待歷史的法庭審判。
2009-06-12 @ 23:51
迴響 from: JENNY [訪問者]
朱大所言甚是!
我真的很不爽要用自己辛辛苦苦工作繳納的稅金去養這些王八蛋!!!

看到方姓少女被害的事,其實我心很痛。
因為我自己的表妹在十幾年前被迫結束了她才10歲的生命。一個國中少年因為勒索我表妹不果,就先姦後殺,事後,這個嫌犯因為未成年,只被關到少年感化院裡,民事賠償聽說也沒有要到什麼錢。
對我小阿姨而言,她只能強迫自己忘記這件事,忘記自己生過這個女兒。
我想要請問那些反對死刑的人,你能體會她心中的痛嗎?不要說什麼勸她忘記這種不痛不癢的話,也不要說什麼死刑犯應該給他改過自新的機會的鬼話,那誰來給受害者復活的機會?像朱大講的,人權團體只幫加害者想,他們有幫被害者想嗎?

雖說判殺人犯死刑,也不會讓死者復生,可是這至少能撫平一些受害者家屬的創傷,所謂「告慰死者在天之靈」,死者在天上看到應該也會開心點吧。

我們不是神沒錯,但我們是經由社會群體的制度和力量來執行,是經過代表社會大多數群體的人去作判人死這件事;再者,姑且不論有沒有神存在這件事,就算有神,祂也是不管人間是否有正義這檔事,如果不靠人自己的力量去制裁,那還有誰可作?

當然,社會死刑並無法完全遏止殺人這件事,那就要同時透過道德教育來淨化人心,不能說教育沒做好,然後又基於人權理由廢除死刑,這樣不是更糟嗎?

請不要再有那些腐儒的天真想法好嗎?
執行死刑跟嫌犯本性是否善良根本一點關係都沒有,純粹就是一個道理-------
作出錯事,就要付出代價;
而殺死另一個生命,付出自己的生命也很公平吧?
如果不讓犯錯的人體會他作出的事有多嚴重,他怎麼能深刻體會到被害者有多痛?
人之所以會作出那麼多變態殘忍的事,就是因為他無法體會到被害者的痛苦。

再者,根據前面帖子某大大所說-------
跑去看了聯合國暫緩死刑的決議文,很意外的非常簡短,原因只有兩點,因為沒有積極証據証明死刑有效,另一點就是死刑的不可恢復.很簡短也很實際. 贊成死刑的人不妨攻擊這兩點看看.

我個人的感覺是:
1.死刑是否有效,當然可能是公婆各有理,但就相反而論,如果沒有死刑,殺人者會更有恃無恐,反正最多無期徒刑,再加個減刑,最多關個十年出來又是一條好漢,怕什麼?
2.也許有所謂的冤獄存在,但難道不應該在偵察或審判時多花一點時間去查證罪刑是否屬實,反而要因噎廢食去寬恕那些罪大惡極的人嗎?

有人說應該讓罪犯活著讓他賠到死,那麼,如果殺人犯設法脫產說他沒錢呢?那受害者家屬又能如何?能逼他把錢吐出來嗎?

我只能說,人性不能光從善的那方面來看.....
2009-06-13 @ 00:15
迴響 from: 平民 [訪問者]
*****
我認為死刑「宜慎」但「不宜廢」。

如果今天廢死聯盟成員的爸媽、手足、小孩、愛人,
被奸淫擄掠、橫屍遍野,
我就不相信他們還可以說支持加害者的人權。

如果以上的事情發生,他們還可以這麼堅定的支持,
那我給他們下跪,
因為他們已經不是人,根本就是上帝了!


2009-06-13 @ 01:07
迴響 from: 曾是法律人 [訪問者]

我們真該跟對面的人或北韓簽個協定,並且立法在刑法上新增「流刑」或「勞改」。簡言之,就是把大家不喜歡的受刑人送去對面開發大西部或朝鮮山林區或採壙區。這下大家眼不見為淨,人權團體也不會靠北靠木說要廢死刑,或肯定技術上停止執行死刑,搞得各位緊張兮兮。──至少受刑人還活著沒死掉,只是去到蠻荒之地流氓國家會「生死未卜」。

還有,人權團體的律師再怎麼有錢有勢也比不上或國家機器。光數人頭、數預算就可以知道檢警調的勢力比這些律師大,別把辯方想得太神通廣大。他們也是人,只是做他們該做的事罷了。──為被告辯護,聽不到也不可以其他雜音。

在合乎專業偷理的要求下把當事人利益擺在第一位,這就是辯方律師。




(Lucifer:專業理?你打錯字了吧?
2009-06-13 @ 02:05
迴響 from: Beelzebub [訪問者] · http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/anruse/
*****
人性本惡

別他媽的把人心想得太美好
2009-06-13 @ 02:30
迴響 from: 大白 [訪問者]
戰成死刑+1
2009-06-13 @ 03:13
迴響 from: Leo [訪問者]
記得在唸書時,曾任大法官的老師,很正經的告訴我們,法律是最低的道德標準,我深表認同,而且就如同朱大所說的,這是一般民眾所期待的正義,不過我希望在判決死刑犯的同時,要更加的嚴謹的要求證物及審判,以免冤獄的產生,畢竟生命無法重來,死刑是有它存在之必要,而且每個人都該為了他的行為負責不是嗎??這才是男子漢阿~~
2009-06-13 @ 11:44
迴響 from: 小馬姑娘 [訪問者] Email · http://www.president.gov.tw/
因為被害人的家屬跟鮑魚嬌一樣太天真了,居然會相信法院會聲張正義。
沒有實力就沒有正義。
2009-06-13 @ 12:14
迴響 from: 打錯字的人 (/_\)/ [訪問者]
抱歉,是「專業倫理」,我打錯字了。我願意向教我「法律倫理」的黃大律師公開道歉。但我不清楚他支不支持死刑。

我只知道:法官擔心年底還有積案一大堆、檢察官煩心可不可以少一點案件、律師擔心案件量及品質怎麼會越來越差,考到律師牌的人怎麼會越來越多?刑訴教授只會爭執德派美派日派的"留學國學術"鬥爭、法律系學生擔心能不能考上國考?

被告或死者家屬?哈哈,誰關心你們啊?想太多,"日頭赤呀呀、隨人顧性命"啦!
2009-06-13 @ 13:55
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
*****
to F3
感謝指正,是指鄧如雯沒錯。是一個很可憐的女人...
剛好在看彭婉如的資料,不小心混淆了~


to 大叮噹
>RP大的憤怒,是可以理解的。
>但是也請您瞭解,為什麼法律人要如此做的原因
我是RR啦.....

請看看這位學法人的詭辯:【且毫無悔意...】
人的真正心理是無從得知的。
最好的例子就是李登輝,在老K黨裡面潛伏數十年,幾乎把一切搞垮之後大家才知道

原來他是日本人(自稱岩田正男),他是大獨派,慰安婦都是自願的(也是他說的)
誰能得知,誰來證明人的真正心裡?

這不就和人犬團體一樣『殺了死刑犯受害者也不能復生...』用一個永遠無法成立的條件
來詭辯、打嘴砲。"吱吱不倦"的在文字上占便宜,像蛆一樣在法條上鑽啊鑽看有沒有漏洞~


真它媽的噁心
2009-06-13 @ 14:06
迴響 from: WADE [訪問者]
您老杯勒!!!
看完火都滾起來!!!
這世界真的是有錢是老大...
真希望哪個死刑犯放出來去幹掉那些律師或教授
就真他x的爽了!!!
不過這社會亂象太多了
這只是冰山一角罷了....
2009-06-13 @ 15:20
迴響 from: マダオ [訪問者]
人權團體最新勝利指標~
http://www.nownews.com/2009/06/13/138-2464207.htm
這不外是人權團體另一次的大勝利阿!!!
2009-06-13 @ 16:44
迴響 from: 有意思喔 [訪問者]
真的很有道理~ 如果我的妻兒子女被人家強暴了!你關那個強暴犯也沒有用啊!他被強暴的事實也不會改變,他也不會因為加害者被關,人生就從此恢復正常,何況加害者也只是社會的受害者,他爸爸愛喝酒,他媽媽愛賭博,學校老師討厭他,出社會後也工作不順利,你們誰在乎過他,他會這樣,也只是因為他有性需求啊!人都有性需求不是嗎?既然你妻兒子女都被強暴了,關他也不能改變什麼,那不如就算了,當作被蚊子叮囉!誰叫你以前都沒有關心這個社會潛在的不滿,沒有在他爸爸媽媽老師老闆放棄他之前,伸出你慈愛的援手,你活該麻~這個社會這麼多邊緣人,你平日沒去救他們,只在乎你自己和家人的人生,遵循社會法治的規範,卻沒有普渡眾生,今天,算你衰,畢竟,總得有人讓他們發洩一下,至於你老婆女兒被人家強暴的時候受到毆打.侵害,那也是必然的啊,幹嘛這麼多反應?人家都說談法律的話,只在乎動機與目的,過程不重要,那你氣什麼氣?
2009-06-13 @ 16:45
迴響 from: NF [訪問者]
我支持廢死刑卻不支持廢除死刑聯盟,因為那些人模糊了焦點,法律是不朔及既往的(除非有正當的回朔理由),現在被判死刑定讞的人無論刑法怎改都必須死,拖刑只會浪費更多國家資源也會讓受刑人和被害者家屬更痛苦而違反了廢死刑的初衷!
被害者家屬的部分我認為補償是必要的!
2009-06-13 @ 17:06
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
*****
to 有意思喔

帥喔,你的說法不就和奸巧謝洨夫一樣嗎?
先替強姦犯保釋,還對鄧如雯說女方已被強制性交,不如撤回告訴嫁給男方...

D屁屁和人犬團體一樣,超熱愛替罪犯伸張人權的哩~


BTW,忘了哪邊看到的數據:
強姦犯幾乎都有心理上的問題,甚少比例是為了所謂"生理需求"
2009-06-13 @ 17:10
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
TO:有意思喔

你好偉大喔!
願意供獻自己的家人來給強暴犯使用
請問要如何連絡你呢?
2009-06-13 @ 17:17
迴響 from: sam_宅 [訪問者]
****-

真的是不知道怎麼說啊。

一堆人在那裡喊「法律不能治本」,所以反對死刑。

那總不能不治本,連標都不治。

今天你我都知道治本就是教育方面的問題,但是那還要很久。
姑且不說這個,就算教育搞好,死刑仍然不能廢。

因為死刑是讓死刑犯真正誠實面對其所犯下過錯的手段。
這不是目的,社會大眾並不是為殺人而殺人。
否則那就只是屠殺。
今天執行死刑是為了讓死刑犯面對他的過錯、給受害者及其家屬一個最基本的交代、給社會大眾體認到這是公正的社會…諸如此類不勝枚舉。
2009-06-13 @ 17:19
迴響 from: 有意思喔 [訪問者]
to:ninny
拜託~這是寫反話你沒看懂喔!
只不過是把先前幾個人用的說法拿來稍微綜合綜合,看看他們要怎麼回應麻?
你該不會剛好是強暴犯吧......
to:rr
水!這個有酸到
2009-06-13 @ 17:58
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
TO:有意思喔

SORRY......我瞎了XD!



但是我有認識強暴犯......他們強暴人真的不是單純為了性需求....
2009-06-13 @ 18:01
迴響 from: 飛 [訪問者]
*****
支持朱大,朱大熱血男兒,勇敢發聲,
2009-06-13 @ 18:17
迴響 from: 5566 [訪問者]
還有未成年殺人的...也很讓人生氣..E04..
仗著有法律保護..行事一樣兇殘..
關沒幾年就出來了..人權人權人權...
是不是得做壞事才能彰顯人權啊...
2009-06-14 @ 00:26
迴響 from: gigiboy [訪問者]
支持死刑就歸支持死刑的
反對的就歸反對的吧

個人還是覺得死不死刑是人性 文化問題
因為反對死刑 就變虛偽
實在有點...

有些國家或地區廢死了
而且人民70%支持廢死
難道 那些都是偽君子@@

台灣現況 人民多數認同死刑
那死刑就是被需要的
看不慣 就學朱大 發起語論
形成力量給政府壓力

而反對死刑的應該還是繼續努力吧
反正應該都被罵慣了

還有廢死聯盟只是人權團體的一環
希望不要一杆子打翻 所有支持人權的團體
雖然可能有些地方理念不一樣
我個人倒是 還是非常支持人權都重要
否則那天 台灣也會出現象 綠壩這種鬼軟體..
2009-06-14 @ 02:41
迴響 from: NAC [訪問者] Email
***--
我也支持朱大的論點!
下面這是我發表在廢死刑團體網站上的問題

廢死刑?
那死刑犯人應該如何處置?
那受害者家屬又該如何得到一個法律前的公正公平答覆?
那對已死的受害者是應該要被殺的嗎?他的生存權利已經被犯人奪走了
廢死刑聯盟已有什麼很好又全盤全面顧及的方案來解決問題了嗎?
犯人下半輩子人生應該怎麼過?待牢裡?出來社會重新開始新生活?
受害家屬的所有家庭因素:心理、經濟..如何對應?
對於死去的受害者,國家的法律怎麼給他一個交代?他的生存權在哪?
難道是隨著被犯人殺掉後其生存權也隨之消失無效力是嗎?
那意思是不是說犯人的生存權跟被害人的生存權,是不對等、不平等的?
這些問題單單靠廢死刑就可以解決嗎?
法律是保護守法的人?還是犯法的人?
若不是冤獄呢?你們能完全付責起上述的事情的責任嗎?
若是冤獄呢?你們有付出所有的時間去協助警方查案嗎?
2009-06-14 @ 06:48
迴響 from: BlackKingK [訪問者]
***--
我也支持死刑,但是朱大所指的事件執行死刑之後,應該說「能夠稍稍舒緩家屬的傷痛」,但是事情這樣並沒有解決。
我認為根本之道還是在於教育。

BTW 台灣的法院越判越輕真的是該改一改了,而檢察官的操守也該好好…

台灣真是不平靜阿!

希望「老有所終,壯有所用,幼有所長,矜寡孤獨,廢疾者,皆有所養。」(引自禮記 禮運大同篇)
2009-06-14 @ 17:36
迴響 from: florance [訪問者]
在那些所謂 "人權團體" 的眼中:
"受害者的人權" 不是人權...
反而是 "加害者才有人權"...

這世界要趨近毀滅了嗎? 才會出現這些顛倒是非的人?
2009-06-14 @ 18:13
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
請問是國之將亡,所以必有妖孽嗎XD!

-----------------

怎麼突然覺得如果我星期五晚上下班坐火車去新竹火車站會遇到搶匪的樣子........囧"
2009-06-14 @ 20:03
迴響 from: 來點不同的聲音 [訪問者]
不好意思,我還是支持有死刑。
不過還是要有不同的聲音及角度來看比較有進步的空間。所以下面有另一個不同的意見


http://blogs.myoops.org/lucifer.php/2009/06/11/deathsentence2#feedbacks

回到標題上來,朱學恆宣稱「我通常都是站在弱者的那一邊。」、「我國的法院甚至會多次發回更審,受害者家屬經歷五到十年的法律程序,耗費大量訴訟費用之後,甚至高達更八審以上才會定讞。」。
事實上,整個訴訟當中真正的弱勢,是被告家屬,無論被告有沒有犯罪,被告家屬在任何地方都抬不起頭來,鄉民會認為天經地義,但這卻是相當莫名其妙的事情,因為被告家屬實際上什麼也沒做、什麼罪也沒犯,甚至完全不知情,只因為自家出了個被告,就讓這些家屬必須承擔社會的白眼和被害者家屬的狗幹,如果人權團體的律師幫助被告是對無辜被害者家屬的欺壓,那麼同樣無辜的被告家屬又是為了什麼而被社會與被害者家屬欺壓?不論內容,很多鄉民一遇到廢死議題的時候就會開始「正義何存」,不過如果再深入一下,就會發現這類鄉民所謂的正義還是兩千年前劉邦的那套「殺人者死」,但鄉民可有想過,已經廢除死刑的國家有因為殺人者沒死而沒有正義嗎?




2009-06-14 @ 22:32
迴響 from: winsoncat [訪問者] Email
*****
http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/090614/78/1l8cb.html

今天又有一個人被殺死了。
對於這些飆仔,生命在他們眼裡不過螻蟻般的渺小,是他們發洩心中情緒的一個工具。
哪天真的面臨司法,在留露出一點點悔恨,一滴滴鱷魚眼淚,來博取人權團體的同情。
但,這個無辜的人何其無辜?
他的家人又何其無辜呢??
2009-06-14 @ 23:34
迴響 from: mio [訪問者]
to 來點不同的聲音:

人不是從石頭蹦出來的,
我想一個人除了天生缺角之外,
一個人會犯下惡行,
大部份與所處環境跟家庭教育有關,
一個人對人權的輕賤,
在成長的過程就可以看出端倪,
我不贊同被告家屬一點責任都沒有的說法,
但同意他們所負的責任不該無限的延伸。

至於跟二千多年的觀念一樣,
我不覺得有哪裡不對,
正因為對人權有著不可侵犯性的認知,
才認可死刑的必要,
因為人命是無法等價交換的,
今天你做再多的懲罰或賠償都無法替代人命,以上。


2009-06-15 @ 06:39
迴響 from: winson [訪問者]
你被人家篆養的狗咬了,
除了找狗算帳外,你一定也會找養狗的主人討公道吧!~~
被告者的家屬當然也有責任負擔被告的罪責!
這當然也不是無限上綱,只是覺得這是被告的另外一層的拖累,這是被告應該要付的責任!!!!

至於「已經廢除死刑的國家有因為殺人者沒死而沒有正義嗎?」端呼於你怎麼看待正義~因為你的正義也不一定是別人的正義。
2009-06-15 @ 10:03
迴響 from: jackbase [訪問者] Email
*****
沒有親人遭逢那些傷害
他們應該永遠也不能理解直行死行的必要性吧~悲哀...
2009-06-15 @ 14:36
迴響 from: 橘寶 [訪問者]
我每次看到什麼人權團體說....BALA BALA的一堆
就覺得又來了

講句難聽點的
那是因為死的不是他(or 他愛的人)


那是不是以後要殺人前
只要先去警局報備一下
就算被抓了也不用殺人償命阿

機車,每次看到這種人權團體說
就覺得他們真是堆王八蛋


歐, 第一次在這邊留言就這麼激動(羞)
2009-06-15 @ 18:06
迴響 from: 斷腸 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/T2266
我真的覺得朱大你這個話題的這兩篇都沒什麼在說理

就只是一直舉例

可是例子是可以挑的啊

就像尚爺講的:
『如果有那個很閒的宅男、決定效法朱學恒,把整篇文章的案例通通換成枉死的好人、枉死者孤獨的老父老母、還有胡亂蒐證的警察與做出判決的法官,是不是也能做出朱學恒這大票是草菅人命的腦殘鄉民?可以,當然可以,其實這很接近真實。』


對了
尚爺對朱大的攻擊文:
http://woosean.pixnet.net/blog/post/23789848

我很想幫朱大講話
可是這回 我真的覺得尚爺比較有理


(Lucifer:我哪需要人幫我講話,如果我真覺得回應有意義就會回應。改天你媽阿姨的小弟和他的朋友罵朱學恆是個胖豬是不是也要剪貼給我看?難怪酪梨壽司說網路上有很多剪貼狂,此言甚對。
2009-06-15 @ 18:50
迴響 from: 斷腸 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/T2266
如果純粹只是罵朱大你的話當然沒有必要

但是尚爺這種反對死刑的論-也許很嘴砲-但是真的比人權團體有力多了,同時我也覺得這比朱大您的舉例法(?)有說服力(不是單指剛剛那篇)


至於剪貼狂啊,我好像真的是…
2009-06-15 @ 19:26
迴響 from: 敏 [訪問者]
我覺得死刑不死刑真的還是要個案處理,必須在最嚴謹的行況下有一個了結,而被害者家屬的聲音應得到最大的尊重,至於司法體系〈檢警調、律師〉要做的就是盡量的還原真相,讓真正的犯罪之人認罪服法

因此在某些案件上,我認為死刑是必須的,但大部分的案件是可以討論的,在制度上除了法官的自由心證外,是否應有陪審團制?這是可以考慮的
2009-06-16 @ 03:11
迴響 from: 敏 [訪問者]
此外,針對人權團體的貢獻,我還是抱著支持態度,只是有些時候他們矯枉過正時,還是會忽略一些更微弱的聲音…

對很多事情的看法不該只是單純的二元論,正或反,應該有這樣公開的討稐後,做出更細微、有品質、也比較符合實務操作的"法規制度"來盡量達到審判程序與結果的正義與公平性,這樣才是對未來社會發展有意義的貢獻

2009-06-16 @ 03:20
迴響 from: rainbowminer [訪問者]
將複雜的議題與以簡單的二元對立,
加以情緒化的提示、"正義"本身在精神學上強烈的攻擊本質,
在歷史上向來是製造衝突者喜愛的手段;

在此先發表一點看過這幾篇死刑文後的感想:

前面也有不少發言指出
支持死刑與站在受害者同一邊之間的聯結並不夠充份,
倒是首先必須思考自己,是否熱切的希望社會給予這些惡徒終極制裁,
卻以"站在受害者同一邊"為理由;
這是躲在後面叫囂,而把懲治惡徒的血腥之手交給受害者,
成為對受害者令一種傷害;

我周圍的親友多數並不贊成廢死,
許多較經歷風霜的提出很誠實的理由,
"為了怕有些難以教化的匪徒脫網,為了警世"
所以,要想廢棄這種終極手段其實是很讓人猶豫的,
廢死在社會上綜合來說,其實還是少數意見。

然而,支持死刑與廢死對多數人的心理同樣會產生猶豫;
有些人十惡不赦,有些判決已定,
透過道德、法律、社會組織或是群眾心理,
我們才有勇氣對這些惡徒做出平常只有他們做的出的事,
但是,作為第一線的執法人員,作為定下判決的法官,
或是簽署最後文件的那個人,所承受的壓力也不該輕忽。

從另一方面來說,
當我們即使在身心不受壓迫的情況下,
對剝奪另一人的生命因為種種理由而產生殷切的期盼,
是否顯示一種可能性:
經過某些社會潮流或是群眾意志,或是恰當的理由,
我們能做出殘忍的事,
如同過去各種戰爭與仇恨?

對一般人而言,
只有在受威脅時才會直接做出殘忍的事,
所以,才有所謂的正當防衛;
而家屬所受那種錐心之痛,
會希望犯罪者血債血償,大多數這裡的板友都能認同;
然而這時,我們一同鼓噪是正確的嗎?
大部分的卡漫電影裡,在主角能揮劍復仇的一刻,
卻往往是把惡徒交給社會機關做"法律制裁",
就是對這個難題做了一點迴避;
在社會習慣裡,即使有手刃兇手的理由,
仍然需借重眾人之手獲得執行滅殺的正當性,
這是死刑本質一個吊詭的地方,
殺人可以透過眾人的意見或是法律的處理加強其正當性,
這也有一點回應上一段,
因此,我們在透過某些機制和理由許可殘忍的事發生時,
需要有更多的醒思。

讓受害者不能報仇,對多數人來說也是一件殘忍的事。
不過,在討論報仇之前,
大家都知道朱大這幾篇文章的出發點,
其實是希望給受害者家屬的一點撫慰,
而真正要對受害家屬有所幫助,所付出的心力時間,
是漫長而龐大的,更甚於復仇,
因此,希望在這裡支持死刑的朋友,
不是只是因為透過復仇給家屬交代簡單明瞭,
事情過後就算了;
比如當受害家屬因反覆來往法院,心生怨恨而希望快點處死犯人,
我們應該就這樣處理嗎?
還是應該檢討法律流程,增加對家屬的保護並且
對家屬因現行制度不完善所受到的苦惱做國家的補償?
簡單的選項不一定是恰當的,反之亦然;
又比如,如果受害者家屬希望把犯人關到死,
而不希望在這爛人身上付出殺戒而處死他,
此時該怎麼辦呢?

伸張死刑雖然不是最好的辦法,
但是難道我們的社會還有其他面對未亡人的好方式嗎?
我相信,就算現在沒有,以後也可能出現,
因為,在朱大這裡,已經看過許多的奇蹟發生了,
開放課程、幫助農友、慰問殉職員警家屬....
所以,奇蹟是可能發生的,
就算是一點一點的,這個社會仍然夠大可以累積這些偶發的可能,
所以看過朱大這幾篇文章後,
我之前迷惘的,現在決定了,

要投廢死一票;

因為這個是不論在這裡或是現實世界都是少數意見的理想化選項,
即使媒體喜歡報導,名人喜歡搭便車,仍然未成主流;
但是這個選項的確是指向某個理想,
那個理想是這個社會能盡力撫平受害者家屬的傷痛,
即使沒有使用血債血償的手段,
選擇投這票,就選擇要有著相信這社會的未來的勇氣。

當主角面對有血海深仇的冤家倒在地上,
正要揮劍砍下時,
能溫柔的帶開他的手,並繼續陪他走下去的,
才是真正的朋友。
2009-06-16 @ 03:48
迴響 from: 艾尼 [訪問者]
*****
如果要上街頭表達人民的心聲
或是討閥「人權團體」
請通知我

台灣不能再退步了
尤其是錯誤的觀念更不能退讓

「人權團體」別假慈悲了
一聽到就厭惡
滾回你們的地獄去吧
你們不配當「人」
2009-06-16 @ 05:12
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
TO:rainbowminer

來~
快去新竹陪那個兒子莫名其妙被人打死的媽媽
"溫柔的帶開他的手,並繼續陪他走下去"
自己先作到了,再來要求別人

加油!我等你好消息~
2009-06-16 @ 07:48
迴響 from: 路人 [訪問者]
*****
把那些自命清高的人權團體的娘、姐、妹、女兒等親密的人通通輪姦至死,看牠們還能不能體會什麼叫被害人的心情!!!
2009-06-16 @ 10:15
迴響 from: 小市民 [訪問者]
殺人不用償命,那要警察幹嘛,我個人是認為以其人之道還治其人之身,既然要殺人就要承擔後果,要人家給你什麼人權機會啊,那你在殺人時有想過給被害者機會嗎~~~人就是犯賤一定要給予重罰才會怕,死刑不能廢,更要加重刑罰,效法人家新加坡和中東國家一樣,多加些像鞭刑之類,像強姦犯就是先讓他感同身受,再施以閹刑,再將蜂蜜塗在傷口上讓螞蟻在上面咬,接著就是讓他等死~~
2009-06-16 @ 16:47
迴響 from: 囧勒 [訪問者]
以後我們要培養自己的小孩去當殺手
砍了反死刑人仕的親屬
看看牠們會怎麼想?
2009-06-16 @ 18:45
迴響 from: windseeker [訪問者]
站在受害者那一邊是否就等於支持死刑呢?

殺人者一定是泯滅人性而凶殘的嗎?

如果少殺一個該死的人可以免除十個不該死的人的生命,你會怎麼選擇?

我個人對於死刑反感,但也覺得這32個死刑犯該不該死和「反死刑」的理念似乎不是等質等量的兩個議題,

或許被審慎評估的死刑判決應該被貫徹,也或許人權團體應當更加努力的拯救罪不致死的死刑犯。

另一件事
以牙還牙以眼還眼的復仇思維是否應該被鼓勵?
其他的事情我不知道,但這裡牽涉到暴力
而社會大眾譴責暴力,這是怎麼一回事?
2009-06-17 @ 23:38
迴響 from: windseeker [訪問者]
「當主角面對有血海深仇的冤家倒在地上,
正要揮劍砍下時,
能溫柔的帶開他的手,並繼續陪他走下去的,
才是真正的朋友。」

對rainbowminer的文章深表認同

不過我覺得「這件案件的死刑判決適當與否」「死刑應不應當存在」「怎樣撫慰死者家屬」
這三件事情應該分開討論
就目前看來死刑不可能廢除,看看蘋果日報的社會版,不難看見「屍塊」之類的字眼...這樣都不一定死刑了...

還有

樓上的回應讓我發現了一個問題
這個問題也是我長久以來希望社運團體能夠改進的地方:
---------------------------------------
我每天吃飯睡覺工作拿薪水,人權?干我屁事!
---------------------------------------

所以說

---------------------------------------
那些人權鬥士都是自命清高的知識份子,一點都不懂得普羅大眾的心情!
---------------------------------------

要怎麼讓人「感同身受」你的裡想?
又要怎麼確定自己的理想是不是太過於「超現實」?畢竟社運人士和藝術家是有差別的
這很值得討論

還有我很好奇
雖然我也不太懂那些人權團體在想什麼
來這裡咒罵死刑犯去死的網友對於人權團體的認識是否僅限於朱大的這篇文章?

2009-06-18 @ 00:12
迴響 from: JOSEPH [訪問者]
*****
我不清楚人權團體的訴求是不是每一件個案都是對不起受害者家屬的,我只知道如果和鐘德樹案一樣的事發生在我的小孩身上,我會親手執行死刑。
2009-06-19 @ 20:00
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
"我們從歐洲先進國家的例子得知,社會福利體系的完備、整體支持體系的建立,才是撫慰被害者家屬協助他們走出傷痛的方法。就是因為我國對犯罪被害人的保護太不周全,使對被害人及家屬僅有的「復仇」之道就是「消極」的看犯人死亡,而非「積極」的療傷止痛。"
---------------------------
廢死聯盟的網頁寫的這麼一段話........這段話很好.....也真的很有道理..........但是我也真的完全不知道他們到底又為了所有的被害人與家屬們作了什麼積極的療傷止痛的事......最常看到他們的就是他們又被哪位死刑犯打官司上訴了.......如果他們改而推動對於被害人及家屬間的積極療傷止痛與撫慰他們讓他們早日走出傷害......我覺得我會比較認同他們一些些......囧"

所以.....很抱歉.......在你們沒有對被害人與家屬做出一番作為前,我是完全都不想支持你們的.....
2009-06-19 @ 20:37
迴響 from: windseeker [訪問者]
以下連結sean woo批評朱大的文章

http://woosean.pixnet.net/blog/post/23719988

http://woosean.pixnet.net/blog/post/23789848


這個sean woo大大從以前影劇摩人就開始憤怒
一直憤怒到現在,比朱大嚴重千百倍
我曾經在digu上寫著:如果你覺得你的心情太好,請看sean woo 的部落格

跟sean woo相比 朱宅的部落格讀起來真的愉悅多了

不過也許就是因為愉悅,朱大的批判文之中情感投射層面的比重就比較明顯了
肯定死刑是為了受害者家屬抱不平
幹譙楊基寬是為辛苦工作的社會新鮮人說話

不知道朱大有沒有想過
楊先生為什麼要提出「勇者策略」
人權團體又為什麼要廢除死刑呢?

sean woo先生說朱宅在鬼扯蛋
我認為是sean woo不懂朱宅的熱血和浪漫

希望朱大點進去看看,試著想想他在想什麼。

(Lucifer:又不是正妹有什麼好看的。
2009-06-20 @ 00:11
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
回樓上

我逛過他的部落格.....很沉重的感覺.......滿滿的都是憤怒,我不知道是否由於他所處的生活環境或是工作影響了他......可是在我上了一天班之後,我只想看一些看了會哈哈大笑的東西,但是他的部落格通篇幾乎都是這種憤怒文........看了整個人心情只會更糟.....完全不想加入我的最愛......囧"
2009-06-20 @ 00:43
迴響 from: renox [訪問者]
***--
死刑是很大的問題
就短期而言,本人也不贊成廢除
死刑是司法的最後一道防線
就台灣而言,刑法處份都十分寬鬆
更不用說官官相護的情況了
但是長期呢
死刑的意義到底是什麼?
給犯人一個正義的制裁
那行使制裁權的人又有多高尚呢?
死刑是一個國家對本身教育失敗做個草草了結吧
當眾人高高在上宣判一個人的死亡時
那優越的神情
同殺人犯一樣
一點也不會認為自己的所作所為有問題
因為有正當的理由告訴自己
對他的罪惡作出制裁是正確的
殺人這件事情就被合理...
如果一個國家有良好的教育
犯罪率下降
死刑被廢除的話 人民就不會有意見
廢除死刑這件事情對不對
也只是當今社會的需求選擇之一而已。
你認為對就是對 錯就是錯
但真正的問題是
如何遏止犯罪的發生
死刑只是諸多手法之一的其中一種
端看各位支不支持吧?
到最後 結論的產生
也只不過是多數決暴力的結果吧。
2009-06-22 @ 16:35
迴響 from: GRID [訪問者]
看來大多數人的主張如下

1.法律必須尊重

2.為維護受害者人權 被判死刑的應馬上執行

依據以上推論 有幾各問題想請教大家

1.法律有多了不起??

刑法一百條規定如下

意圖破壞國體、竊據國土或以非法之方法變更國憲、顛覆政府,而著手實行者,處七年以上有期徒刑;
首謀者,處無期徒刑。(第1項)
前項之預備犯,處六月以上五年以下有期徒刑。(第2項)

這條惡法的重點在意圖兩字 就是說光想要台獨就該被關 這條法律從1950年代大量被引用作為判刑依據直到1992年 不過17年前才廢除 這四十幾年被判刑的人不知道多少冤獄

照大家要尊重並執行的邏輯 這四十年來被刑法一百條判刑的人都應該含笑尊重法律 乖乖被關??? 如果你的家人朋友因為心理想過台獨就坐牢 大家也會說尊重法律??

2.依大家的想法 蘇建和三人早就該死了 如果蘇建和三人已經死了 到現在又發現是冤獄 贊成立刻執行死刑的大家 會有什麼反應?? 會不會覺得心虛 還是關我屁事??

上面有網友提到蘇建和案是家屬花大錢請律師的結果....最好是你家人受冤獄時 你不會請律師 只會含笑祝他早死早投胎!!

人怎麼可以腦殘到這各地步? 對自己不了解的事情任意污衊??


題外話

1.從大家的火力看來 我完全不覺得人權團體在社會上有任何優勢 反而覺得他們面對遍地荊棘

2.就我所知 反死刑聯盟的團體中有幾各窮到發不出薪水 我不知道 "有錢有勢、有免費辯護律師團、有國外資金贊助、擁有大量資源的人權團體"是哪來的判斷. 難道大家所反對的 不管真相如何就先抹黑成特權階級?

(Lucifer:第二條是你自己去查一下那幾個連署要求總統特赦者的職業和收入就可以了。這種題外話還要問,大律師還這麼窮,那是怎樣,要我們接濟嚕?
2009-06-22 @ 19:48
宅神朱學恆無可否認的,是一個非常博學多聞,並且見解獨到的怪咖,也為社會做了很多有益的事,算是一個我蠻欣賞的人,雖然我並不完全同意他的某些論點。最近在他的兩篇文章〈受害者的人權在哪?〉和〈關於死刑,給人權團體的話......〉中,朱學恆大力批評人權團體廢除死刑的主張,我不僅不能苟同其中論點,還發現了一些似是而言的論調,所以想要討論一下。

基本上,我雖然不可否認的,在正治見解上,是個自由派,可是對於自由派大力主張的廢除死刑,我原本其實並沒有特定的見解,因為我並不認為死刑的存廢是個重要且優先的問題,因為這個社會上還有其他更重要的人權議題了。然而,如果站在我的宗教立場,我必須是要主張廢除死刑的,所以就當我比較贊成廢除死刑好了。

閱讀全文:http://skygene.blogspot.com/2009/06/death-sentence.html
2009-06-23 @ 13:05
我本來是不關心死刑的問題的,不過在一些討論後,開始好奇了起來。在尋找資料的過程,無意中看到「空中的人形醫生」的兩篇文章〈我反對廢除死刑以及減刑的理由〉和〈對於死刑與人權的詭辯(4/28更新)〉,同樣是反對廢除死刑,也應該是高點關率的文章。可是其中論點同樣地似是而非,所以又想討論一下。這篇文章的標題,是為了要呼應前一篇文章〈關於死刑,給朱學恒的話......〉,並非要針對個人,空中的人形醫生也是位博學多聞、見解獨到的人仕,我也常從他的文章中得到不少啟發,所以先申明,此篇文章是對事不對人的。

閱讀全文:http://skygene.blogspot.com/2009/06/capital-punishment.html
2009-06-24 @ 09:09
迴響 from: 允兒 [訪問者]
曾經在談話性節目聽過一句話,我覺得蠻有道理的。他說:沒有嘗過受害者的痛苦,是沒資格叫受害者選擇原諒的。
2009-06-25 @ 12:38
迴響 from: Joe [訪問者]
*****
竟然有人說不知道這些"人權律師"有什麼優勢,還說他們"遍地荊棘"...真是我的媽啊,你去打聽一下這幾位律師住什麼房子,開什麼車子,你有沒有搞錯啊?
不懂事不要出來鬼扯
2009-06-25 @ 20:05
首先,我必須要對大家道歉,因為我在前一篇文章〈關於死刑,給空中的人形醫生的話……〉中,犯了一個嚴重的統計錯誤,該錯誤導致我做出沒有根據的結論,也就是沒有死刑的國家,謀殺率較低。

閱讀全文:http://skygene.blogspot.com/2009/06/capital-punishment-debate.html
2009-06-26 @ 08:06
迴響 from: Amber [訪問者] Email
***--
如果沒有嘗過那種痛,你永遠也不會懂。

我三姨婆的女兒,在小學一年級的時候,當著我姨婆的面前,被一輛砂石車輾斃,還拖行數十公尺才停。我姨婆因為刺激過度精神失常,那個司機不僅沒被判死刑,官司持續打了幾年,依然沒有判決那個司機死刑。司機本人是毫無悔意,重點是,這司機已經不是第一次犯下罪行。

我很想請問那些支持人權的大團體,大學者們,你們認為這個司機是不是因為心理陰影,因為精神上的問題所以才會做出這樣的事情呢?他是不是很可憐?慘遭冤枉,很令人同情呢?




在強調那些狗屁人權前,先站在受害者的心情想想吧!何必爭奪什麼人權!在我來看,以眼還眼就是最好的結果!你女兒被人姦殺,你會想要哭著和強暴犯擁抱說我原諒你嗎?那種痛,沒有體會前,請你們閉緊你們的嘴巴,還是少發言吧!
2009-06-28 @ 20:59
迴響 from: 阿凱 [訪問者]
朱大大 可否想個辦法讓大家來參與 讓那些政治人物 頭腦清醒一點 謝謝!
2009-07-30 @ 01:34
迴響 from: 阿凱 [訪問者]
*****
朱大大 可否想個辦法讓大家來參與 讓那些政治人物 頭腦清醒一點 謝謝!

(Lucifer:讓我來想想辦法。
2009-07-30 @ 01:37
迴響 from: 死刑是必要的存在 [訪問者]
*----
幸福的人沒有資格叫不幸的人放下仇恨
2009-09-30 @ 14:38
迴響 from: 支持死刑 [訪問者]
一群人笨團體,我支持你們
一但廢除死刑成功了,人們就可以無惡不作殺人放火,強姦婦女,擄人勒贖,被抓到有什麼關係啊?反正又不會死隨便鈔個心經,在媒體面前做做樣子,就可以假釋出來了,多爽!!
就算出不來也沒關係還有一輩子免錢牢飯吃到飽,反正被抓前該爽的都爽過了,接下來就可以高枕無憂啦,誰敢判我死刑我就叫人笨團體罩我,咬我啊!!!
不過絕對要從人笨團體下手,因為在他們的觀念人權是最重要的,至於那些受害者隨便三言兩語呼攏一下就可以了,所以對人笨團體下手,他們還要來原諒加害人,多好啊,或許他們還會感激犯罪,因為這樣他們就有表現機會了,又有文章可以炒,所以一定要從人笨團體開始,欺壓蹂躪他們,他們還得強迫自己牽手加擁抱原諒罪犯,連良心的譴責都免了。
不過心動不如馬上行動(當然,要等廢除死刑後)因為他們只是不知名間疾苦的無聊老百姓罷了,等你們蹂躪完他們後她們才會清醒,也有那種執迷不悟的人啦,不過那種都是少數人笨團體的高層人員,畢竟是人『笨』團體的高層嘛,但也只是極少數,所以啊行動要快,這種好康的可不會持續太久啊!
所以大家不要再批評他們了,他們其實就是要替我們這些老百姓送死的敢死隊,只是沒有想到罪犯都還沒對人笨團體的人下手罷了,畢竟他們只是人『笨』團體,不要太高估他們。
再次強調我是支持廢除死刑的標題打支持死刑只是打錯了,我絕對不會覺得他們只是在促進社會更加混亂,他們是要為犯罪者製造天堂啊!!!
哎~~~~~廢除死刑什麼時後才成功呢?犯罪者的天堂快來啊~~~~~~~
2009-10-13 @ 15:52
迴響 from: sam [訪問者]
文明的社會"死刑"不應存在但...

犯法的人應接受制裁.然而把犯者關起來就是最好的制裁嗎?是最好的方法嗎?有其他的方法嗎?

我的建議如下.

1.我們應給犯人均衡及營養的三餐飲食.

2.多運動鍛鍊強健的體魄.(免於生病)

3.早睡早起不可抽菸喝酒.等有害身心的事...

4.給於定期的健康檢查.如需心理醫師的輔導也應安排.

以上是我給於"飯"人的權利.

以下則是犯人應盡的義務.

1.刑期1年以下者.每週固定捐血500CC+抽骨隨

2.刑期1-3年者.先捐眼角膜1顆+抽骨隨外加每週捐血500CC

3.刑期3-5年者.先捐眼角膜1顆+抽骨隨再加捐腎臟1顆外加每週捐血500CC

4.刑期5-8年者. 先捐眼角膜1顆+抽骨隨加捐腎臟1顆再加胰臟1顆外加每週捐血500CC

5.刑期9-12年者.先捐眼角膜1顆+抽骨隨加捐腎臟1顆胰臟1顆再加肝臟50%外加每週捐血500CC

6.刑期12年以上者先捐眼角膜2顆+抽骨隨加捐腎臟1顆胰臟1顆再加肝臟50%外加每週捐血500CC

7.無期徒刑者.除與12年以上者同以外.視醫院的需要皆可要求.如取皮膚.試藥劑...

8.基於"人道"法官絕無判死刑

相信犯錯的人可以經由上述的行為來減低它的罪孽.更可以經由捐贈來幫助需要幫助的人.

所以對於罪犯我們應給予最好的照顧.讓他來幫助無辜且需要幫助的良民.(無償使用喔)

如果我能訂定法律的話我一定要會如此的.我才不管什麼人權.使用者付費.犯錯者更應付出代價.

親愛的朋友.您有更好的建議及看法嗎?請不吝指教喔!

歡迎轉载!

2009-10-25 @ 12:48
迴響 from: 王≠亡子 [訪問者] Email
****-
以前在打辯論的時候,最常有人用的廢除意見是威嚇性、不符合教育及人權精神來打

我就一直在想,如果死刑的威嚇性真的那麼弱的話,那你乾脆也去把軍法的死刑也給廢了好了,反正也沒有比較有威嚇性嘛!(那那些犯罪率上升是怎麼回事?)

教育精神...教育教出一個必須要判死刑的人犯才是教育失敗吧...

人權...媽的能做出被判死刑的人你要跟我談人權...這真的是...
2009-10-29 @ 04:57
我個人是反對廢除死刑的,別的國家如何我沒意見,但是,以台灣目前的社會治安以及一般安分守己的平民百姓的心理來評比,在沒有完善的配套措施之前,實在不宜輕言廢除死刑。



如果倡言廢除死刑竟然是為了宗教理由,或者只為了假慈悲、濫慈悲、笨慈悲,或者當權者個人私心自用,為了害怕殺生造業這種謬誤認知,甘願違法濫權,甚至自詡為好官清官,那才真的是「天理難容」的罪過。



不簽署死刑執行同意書最早開始於同時有「青天」、「酷吏」兩種稱呼的已故法務部長「陳定南」,然後此後所有的法務部長也都因此蕭規曹隨,依樣畫葫蘆,現在由王清峰接任,她原本就是力主「廢除死刑」的法界人士;



但是,須知當下要不要執行死刑和將來要不要廢除死刑是兩碼事,所謂「當一天和尚,撞一天鐘」,在目前台灣法律尚未廢除死刑之際,任何人都該遵守法律,司法人員更應以身作則,能夠無枉無縱,一切依法行事,該執行就執行,豈容遲疑拖延形同尸位素餐?



個人喜惡或理念又豈能置於國家司法制度之上,如果贊同及早廢除死刑,或者認為死刑是不人道不文明的象徵,因此若是個人理念反對死刑,那麼請參加「廢除死刑聯盟」,千萬堅拒接任法務部長一職。如果既要接任法務部長,本身又不願守法,阻撓司法的執行,應作為而不作為這就是玩法弄權,應當以瀆職濫權罪論處!



如果,私心自用;又想當法務部長,又害怕簽署死刑執行同意書會殺生造業,害怕因果業報;請好好思辨自己是否認知有誤?



是干擾因果的運作罪大惡極而遭到天譴?或者是「心地太善良」而提早蒙主寵召?我們凡夫俗子很難推測;但是,有法務部長沒能壽終正寢,未及中年就突然罹癌死亡,這是不爭的事實,青天也好,酷吏也罷,他持續阻擾司法執行也一樣是不爭的事實。



三思啊三思!阻撓司法,干擾因果是天大地大的大事啊!
2010-01-27 @ 12:56
迴響 from: katana80201 [訪問者]
人犬團體去死!
2010-01-27 @ 17:23
迴響 from: WINNY [訪問者]
一個讓人生不如死的人

根本就不能有生存的權力了

因為他也剝奪別人的權力了
2010-01-27 @ 17:25
迴響 from: DreamYeh [訪問者] · http://blog.DreamYeh.tw
***--
人權團體一開始的立場是「在無論如何都無法保證完美而絕對正確的判決下,不應處以無可挽回的死刑」,如果是站在這個立場或許還站得住腳甚至無法說過。

不過近期越來越有一種扭曲,變成所有的死刑犯都不用死了,就算已經證據完整、犯人也數度坦承犯案了,卻也因為「人權」而可以免於一死。這就有些超過。試問,被害者的人權又在哪裡呢?

個人認為,對於案情還有某些疑慮,哪怕一點點也好,可以暫免死刑,讓證據有更多時間說話。

至於那些證據明確、怎麼樣也抵賴不掉的,就趕快簽一簽吧~別在那邊A媽媽B媽媽的假裝叫,真正該關心的是受害者。
2010-01-27 @ 17:40
迴響 from: 憨憨許 [訪問者]
我覺得死刑的執行
針對於強暴犯
惡意殺人犯有其執行的必要性
或是酒醉駕車者傷人致死者
就該執行死刑
若是非惡意傷人者
則可以考慮
2010-01-27 @ 17:45
迴響 from: ycmc [訪問者]
有本書,叫無辜的罪人,有興趣的人可以看看,比較建設性的方法,是明確建立永遠與世隔離的機制,如此未來真的翻案,也不會出現人已經被處刑的遺憾,樓上的各位都很熱血,這是好事,但我相信你們的熱血同樣不希望有人含冤而死,特別是愈令人髮指的犯罪,受制於社會的壓力,執法者破案的壓力愈大,發生冤獄的機率就愈高,替死聯盟的人跟你們一樣,有他們自己心裡的天平,大家對事情的看法不一致罷了,不需要用這麼惡毒的字眼去形容人家,如果你們對死刑犯一直未被槍決有意見,應該找法務部,替死聯盟的人不過大聲說出他們的主張罷了。再者,你們在沒證沒據下直接斷言這些律師都是向錢看,實在不妥,至少其中有幾位一直在從事義務辯護及平民法律服務的工作。
我知道我寫的這些話在這裡被公幹的機率很大,不過我還是要再講一次,替死聯盟不應為死刑未被執行背黑鍋,大聲說出自己的主張沒有錯,樓上那些要人死咒人親人被殺的人,我看不起你們的這種言論。
2010-01-27 @ 18:16
迴響 from: 暗黑羊 [訪問者]
*****
這些所謂人權團體根本只活在自己的世界裡,反正只要出一張嘴就好,完全沒站在受害者家屬的立場想。
真不知道他們到底之不知道那些死刑犯當時是如何泯滅人性的剝奪他人的生命
2010-01-27 @ 18:22
迴響 from: 地下判官 [訪問者]
*****
司法已死!
這些法律學者口口聲聲說「法治國家」,自己卻成為破壞法治的人。如果是這樣,先賞這些人汽油彈再說,看他們還會不會在那邊假慈悲。我看一定是第一時間去醫院驗傷然後馬上提出告訴吧!
2010-01-27 @ 18:25
迴響 from: 地下判官 [訪問者]
*****
各位知道為什麼會有那麼多死刑犯都不被執行嗎?因為上面不敢簽啊!因為不想有人死在自己手上。同理,本人以慈悲為懷的精神,拒絕為軍隊上場殺敵,因為本人不希望有任何一條人命死在自己手裡。
你們覺得如何?
今天如果台灣本來就沒有死刑,這些問題或許就不是問題,可是問題是台灣有死刑,卻因為阿達團體的搗亂,搞得被害者身心俱疲。其實我個人認為終身監禁比死刑更具有懲罰性,但是問題是台灣沒有終身監禁,而終身監禁在現在已經爆滿的監獄的情況之下更是加重監獄的負擔,況且全民納稅人為何要負擔這些人?
也許這邊的言論被那些人權團體看到之後,都會覺得我們是野蠻人、未開化的一群,但是我只想說:不要再把自己標新立異的思想當作是甚麼瞭不起的想法,充其量只是假道學罷了。我們要的是公正嚴明的司法,而不是將司法當作自己成名的工具,或是取悅外國人的工具。
2010-01-27 @ 18:39
迴響 from: 支持死刑 [訪問者]
合理懷疑某些....其實是黑道培植的...
都能入侵校園了,養幾個考試厲害的不難吧?
花錢組個團出來叫叫或用錢買通媒體也很快...

憲法保障人民自由? 還挺好笑的..
約二分之一的人口--女生們,不分年齡,每天都活在台灣這個性侵犯的天堂
根本沒有免於恐懼的自由啊!
2010-01-27 @ 19:29
迴響 from: 豬豬人 [訪問者]
"替死聯盟不應為死刑未被執行背黑鍋,大聲說出自己的主張沒有錯"

問題在於他們不只說出主張
而是先用龐大的資金跟人脈去技術阻擋!
大聲說出主張應該是朝修法方向.

你的說法是詭辯,模糊焦點!

同理我們這裡也是大聲說出我們的主張:
要求執行已確定的死刑!
2010-01-27 @ 19:41
迴響 from: visiteur [訪問者]
如果體制本身沒辦法解決就只能採取體制外的做法了。
2010-01-27 @ 21:51
迴響 from: 小丸 [訪問者]
我想過這個問題...
如果我的親人被殺,法律及司法卻無能給個公道的話
我絕對會花盡身邊財產,自己追也好,買殺手也好,一定要追殺他
看他當初是如何殺害我的親人的,一定用一樣的方法對待他...
2010-01-27 @ 22:17
迴響 from: None-name [訪問者]
*****
我也同2樓。
可能很偏激,不過蠻期待某個被害者家屬哪天抓狂把那些特赦組織的傢伙用極其殘酷的手法殺掉一半。
為甚麼是一半? 因為我想看另外一半的人被電視訪問的時候能講出甚麼鬼話來。

如果我是被害者家人,我一定會把那些阻擋司法進行的傢伙也一起處理掉。這些人就是共犯,只是用人權在當擋箭牌。
2010-01-27 @ 23:19
迴響 from: MATT [訪問者]
死刑是這個國家訂立的遊戲規則,在規則還沒有改之前請尊重大多數人可以遵守的規定,既然被判了就執行,等大家認為這個國家的社會制度可以容許不用判死刑再來討論後來犯法的人要不要判死刑,但是當前這些惡人免死就是在踐踏大家遵守的遊戲原則。
2010-01-28 @ 09:39
迴響 from: 阿炳 [訪問者]
所以才會越來越多人加黑道啊
為了幫自己親人報復
法律又不夠有力
幹嗎不自己送他一刀
2010-01-28 @ 10:54
迴響 from: 小陳 [訪問者]
反對廢除死刑.為了保護大多數善良的百姓.及對受害者難以彌補的補償.執行死刑是必要的.遲來的正義根本不是正義.因為事實已經發生了.
2010-01-31 @ 10:25
迴響 from: megakotaro [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/megakotaro
*****
支持死刑,我也有寫一篇:
http://www.wretch.cc/blog/megakotaro/21215683
2010-02-03 @ 12:56
迴響 from: 王SIR [訪問者]
*****
如果政府無法百分之一百保障所有人的生命權時,就開放槍枝管制讓自己有能力保護自己。也許無法遏止犯罪的發生,至少讓恐懼嚇阻犯罪的單向性。
2010-02-05 @ 01:43
迴響 from: 艾德 [訪問者]
人權團體本來多的就是沽名釣譽之徒,高學歷高知識的光環,更讓人了解上流社會不知民間疾苦的可笑.....法務部長不簽已經死刑定讞的執行令,根本就是怠忽職守,牠根本沒權力將已經定讞的死刑暫停....
2010-02-08 @ 23:49
迴響 from: 從自己做起阿~敢不敢? [訪問者]
對於支持廢死的人...
我很想請你們填一張"自願書"
內容:
[如果有加害人剛好殺死您了.
基於你們對加害人的人權的熱愛和維護.
無論加害人對您的加害行為如何暴虐,痛苦或變態...
法官將視為你已原諒加害人的行為,
將不會對此加害人判出死刑.]

如何? 支持廢死的人要不要都簽一份交給法務部? 這樣應該可以實現你們的正義...


2010-02-09 @ 15:39
迴響 from: 原諒與否不應由人權團體決定 [訪問者]
*****
原諒與否也不應該與「是否執行死刑」扯上關係,
受害者家屬是否願意原諒,死刑犯是否真心悔改,都是道德上的,但就法律層面,犯法就是依法審理、判刑、執行。

若死刑犯在臨刑前大徹大悟,我們替他高興,可是該執行死刑還是要不能逃避,特別是已經定讞了,卻不執行,無異是對法律與人權的踐踏,人都有活下去的權利,但這種權利被另一人剝奪的時候,剝奪者若不需付出等價的代價,又豈有正義?

有人問過孔子,以德報怨,何如?
子曰:「何以報德?以直報怨,以德報德。」
2010-02-10 @ 02:56
迴響 from: 斬立決 [訪問者]
國家不實行正義手段(法律)
是鼓勵人民私自執行嗎

王清峰下台實現你的理想
換個有種砍人的角色好嗎
2010-02-25 @ 23:23
迴響 from: Fo [訪問者]
也太閒了吧!
人權團體有的是時間應該可以去幫助世界上那些認真活著並且想要活下來的人,
至於罪人交由司法判定嘛,
各司其職不是很好嗎!
2010-02-27 @ 16:53
迴響 from: Crazy-Nuts [訪問者]
我經常覺得,近代所謂的"文明國家"的法律與人權觀念,逐漸走向將死者當成一堆不會動的肉塊,沒有任何權利留存,而加害者卻理所當然的享受人權大傘之保護。

這是令人很無奈的走向,但卻也令人非常憤怒。
2010-02-28 @ 01:09
迴響 from: 悲情台灣 [訪問者]
再怎麼說都是多餘的,詳情請參考電影"重案對決"。
2010-03-01 @ 22:43
迴響 from: 悲情城市 [訪問者]
*****
人權團體都是一些養尊處優的傢伙.
整天閒閒沒事做在想一些有的沒的.
等到他們的親人那天被殺害了.
看他們還有沒有那個閒功夫在廢死刑.
2010-03-02 @ 09:50
迴響 from: chi [訪問者] Email
*****
我想是不是讓那些支持廢除死刑的人,為那犯下謀殺罪的人做保證人,保證未來他們絕對不會犯下任何罪,如果犯了,就由保證人承擔相同刑責以及賠償,因為他們相信犯罪的人是絕對不想犯罪的,因此他們有必須負起這樣的責任
2010-03-05 @ 19:26
迴響 from: Marvin [訪問者]
人犬團體,不知世間疾苦,保障加害者你們很爽嗎!?
被害者的痛你們瞭解嗎,不,一定不瞭,因為你們沒有親身經歷。
或許重案對決這部片人犬你們該看看,就算玉石俱焚被害者家屬也會討回一個公道的。
2010-03-05 @ 22:12
迴響 from: 呆呆 [訪問者]
****-
也沒甚麼不對
只是,廢除死刑事實上卻是一個麻煩的話題
1.冤往
冤獄的情況一直是無法避免的,假如說死刑犯是冤枉的,那誰能挽回他的清白?
2.悔改
死刑犯沒有悔改的機會
至於支持死刑的部分,大家也說了差不多了
在此與所有網友致敬~
只是希望能讓大家知道,沒有事情是絕對的
我是附中學生,不是人權團體,不用想太多
2010-03-06 @ 13:57
迴響 from: 路人甲 [訪問者]
為活著的人講人權
那被害者的人權呢?
根本就是本末倒置
這樣好像是教小孩可以去犯錯(殺人放火都可以) 只要認錯或賴皮就沒事了
2010-03-11 @ 11:56
迴響 from: Lily [訪問者]
每次見到為了廢不廢死刑的問題炒得很熱,心中就莫名一股火
今天的社會若是治安好,沒有什麼犯罪行為,不論死刑是否存在其實都沒有什麼關係
但是看看我們的社會,大大小小的犯罪行為不斷的在發生,經常是原本一個幸福美滿的家庭就此破碎,這樣的情況下,就我個人的立場來看實在是不能忍受廢除死刑,而且我一直以來都覺得台灣的許多法律規範都太過寬鬆,很多人犯了罪被關了一段時間便重獲自由,這些人中有相當高比例在出獄後繼續犯案,說”人權”,罪犯的人權重要,那麼無辜的人就不該有人權嗎?

或許那些很支持廢除死刑的人有著很崇高的理想,但是理想的前提應是整個大環境已經不需要死刑的存在就能讓每個人活得自在安全,在人人都還必須惶惶不安的度日子,我想最重要的事情是去改善社會的治安,還給大家一個可以安居度日的環境吧!
2010-03-11 @ 17:17
迴響 from: monkey [訪問者]
我只知道
人死償命
如果那些人權的至親被殘忍的殺害
她們還會喊出廢死刑嗎?
2010-03-12 @ 23:08
迴響 from: dark knight [訪問者]
該死的人就快去死一死吧
2010-03-16 @ 23:04
迴響 from: C.Y [訪問者]
*****
請那些滿口仁義道德或人權的人,設身處地替受害者及受害家屬想想,若殺人不用償命,世間還有何正義公理!
若自己有摯愛親人被殺害,是否還能在那大放厥詞! 那些該死的死刑犯,傷害多少家庭,難道不用受到該有的制裁嗎!
2010-03-29 @ 09:59
迴響 from: 炙天使 [訪問者]
*----
就是人權團體的爛慈悲,才造就了這麼多的(可惡至極)(畜牲不如)的惡魔,你們死後不會上天堂,而是跟著這些惡魔下地獄
2010-03-29 @ 13:40
迴響 from: 反對廢除死刑+1 [訪問者]
誤判?

難道廢除死刑就不會有誤判?

人權?

難道被死刑犯殺死的人就沒人權?

如果死刑犯在臨刑前大徹大悟

那我想大家都應該希望他在下輩子可以當個好人

今天如果廢除死刑了

那替代方案是什麼?

關一輩子嗎?

那請問誰要養他們呢?

如果是亡鑋瘋前部長或是廢死聯盟要出錢養的話

我還可以考慮一下

反對廢除死刑+1
2010-03-29 @ 23:33
迴響 from: 死刑不是那麼簡單 [訪問者]
當然,如果朱老大的意思就是[寧可錯殺,不可錯放!][為了殺掉這些罪大惡極的壞蛋,把少數幾個無辜老百姓一起殺掉也是值得的!]

那我就無話可說了

也請版主正面針對[台灣在解嚴後的這二十年來,確實還是有無辜的老百姓和罪大惡極的壞人一起被處決或判處死刑]的事實來回應,不要又拿那些罪大惡極的惡棍來合理化死刑的正當性

http://www.books.com.tw/exep/prod/booksfile.php?item=0010191144



相關實例請看商周出版的[正義的陰影]這本書

2010-04-06 @ 16:10
迴響 from: Double [訪問者]
to ycmc
為何沒有一本書 叫無辜的被害者呢?
其實我個人淺見不是針對廢不廢死刑
不過自古以來除了邁向文明制度就是
廢除死刑,從來不去思考司法制度,
與人文素養。
話說死刑是國家刑法中最後一道關卡
那...也有言論提到說罪不致死,但
這跟臭氧層破洞全球暖化是一樣的問題
人總是破洞後才思考減少使用氟氯碳化物
全球溫度上升後才思考要如何去減少碳排放
犯罪的人也是,為何他會被判刑,事出必有因
無期徒刑與死刑一念之間,最高法院定讞,民間團體使出釋憲絕招。
立足點在哪裡...如果一個國家沒有罪犯當然是最理想化的時候,到了這個時候有死刑也不等於沒有死刑了。
高知識分子腦袋果然與我一般草民思想不同。
難怪我是草民。
2010-05-03 @ 02:28
迴響 from: 廢死不可 [訪問者]
廢死聯盟口口聲聲說如果社會大眾會擔心死刑犯沒有被感化而悔改就被放出來,為何不去正視監所的教育問題?(以上是匪死聯盟在2100節目上的說法)

那我請問廢死人士,一個人受了多年的社會教育及學校'家庭教育,結果是這樣的人渣,你們期待政府或監獄怎麼感化他們?把問題丟給監獄,站的住腳嗎?
2010-05-06 @ 03:13
迴響 from: 杉宮深代 [訪問者]
(放下報紙......)我只看到一群只會躲在冷氣房裡的白痴在耍猴戲
2010-08-29 @ 14:24
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2011-03-18 @ 16:34
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2011-03-19 @ 02:16
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2011-03-19 @ 02:45
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2011-03-19 @ 10:46
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2011-03-19 @ 14:45
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2011-03-19 @ 18:34
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2011-03-20 @ 09:38
迴響 from: halo reach [訪問者] · http://www.haloreachers.com/
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2011-03-20 @ 23:44
The Book of Life begins with a man and a woman in a garden�It ends with Revelations.
2011-03-21 @ 00:41
There will always be a battle between the sexes because men and women want different things. Men want women and women want men.
2011-03-21 @ 03:54
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2011-03-21 @ 07:21
迴響 from: Jobs Finder [訪問者] · http://jobsfindernow.com
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2011-03-21 @ 12:36
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2011-03-21 @ 15:33
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2011-03-21 @ 19:33
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2011-03-22 @ 08:26
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2011-03-22 @ 11:23
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2011-03-23 @ 00:55
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There will always be a battle between the sexes because men and women want different things. Men want women and women want men.
2011-03-23 @ 02:46
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2011-03-23 @ 07:41
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The light at the end of the tunnel is just the light of an oncoming train.
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2011-03-23 @ 19:32
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2011-03-23 @ 21:48
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迴響 from: lisa [訪問者]
這些被你撐腰的被害人真好,那,冤獄的人呢?先殺在說??


被害人還有照片可以放


我們呢,誰也看不見。我們也是弱勢阿

只是你也沒看見我們....
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2014-12-01 @ 03:47
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2014-12-01 @ 18:57
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2014-12-02 @ 14:32
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2014-12-02 @ 15:22
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2014-12-02 @ 16:55
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2014-12-02 @ 17:36
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2014-12-02 @ 22:41
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2014-12-02 @ 22:50
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2014-12-02 @ 23:18
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2014-12-03 @ 01:07
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2014-12-03 @ 01:44
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2014-12-03 @ 02:31
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2014-12-03 @ 03:28
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2014-12-03 @ 14:20
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2014-12-03 @ 14:56
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2014-12-03 @ 15:03
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2014-12-03 @ 15:43
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2014-12-03 @ 16:46
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2014-12-03 @ 16:50
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2014-12-03 @ 17:14
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2014-12-03 @ 17:23
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2014-12-03 @ 17:25
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2014-12-03 @ 20:35
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2014-12-03 @ 21:03
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2014-12-03 @ 22:53
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2014-12-04 @ 05:20
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2014-12-04 @ 17:50
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2014-12-04 @ 19:32
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2014-12-04 @ 20:35
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2014-12-05 @ 01:44
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2014-12-05 @ 02:13
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2014-12-05 @ 03:04
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2014-12-05 @ 06:08
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2014-12-05 @ 14:43
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2014-12-05 @ 16:47
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2014-12-08 @ 20:57
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2014-12-08 @ 21:25
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2014-12-08 @ 21:33
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2014-12-08 @ 21:42
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2014-12-09 @ 14:00
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2014-12-10 @ 06:25
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2014-12-10 @ 06:30
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2014-12-10 @ 08:12
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2014-12-10 @ 09:17
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2014-12-10 @ 09:19
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2014-12-10 @ 10:25
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2014-12-10 @ 11:12
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2014-12-10 @ 11:35
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2014-12-10 @ 12:24
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2014-12-10 @ 12:43
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2014-12-10 @ 12:48
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2014-12-10 @ 13:10
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