朱恐龍
朱恐龍

以教育之名! (54989 views)
     

敘利亞、埃及、伊朗、中國。

請問台灣和上述國家的相同之處在哪裡?

Follow up:

相同之處是在於台北市教育局的一篇公文:即日起學校網路禁連facebook,若有學術上需求請正式行文向教育局資訊室申請。謝謝!.(98.10.26)

沒錯,台灣(或者說是台北市的教育局)是全球少數不准使用者連上Facebook這個社群網站的公權力之一。根據聯合報的報導,「市政會議上週裁示,北市中小學校園應比照市政大樓封鎖Facebook,教育局是配合市府政策。他強調,若老師有教學需求,可向教育局申請,開放使用Facebook,但仍不開放開心農場。」

特別要強調的是,Facebook並不是什麼A片瀏覽網站喔,它是目前世界上最大的社群網站,大部分的人利用這個平台來交友、玩小遊戲打發時間,就像是阿公阿媽廟口聊天的先進網路版一樣。

我不知道一般的網路使用者看到這個消息有什麼樣的反應,但根據數篇報導和網路上的一些老師反應,許多原先利用Facebook來當作班級留言版來公布作業、點名和相關消息的老師現在都沒有辦法繼續使用這些功能,只能被迫找尋相關的替代品。

順便告訴你,我也不贊成十八歲以下的未成年青少年隨便使用社群網站。因為在這些網站上的隱私保護本身不夠周全。

同樣的,上班時間玩遊戲被老闆抓到也是活該。但照教育人士的那一套論調,為人師表的還需要靠處罰禁止的方式來不准他們上班時間偷玩遊戲,這不是很荒謬嗎?

兩個多月前,中共的解放軍報才以「網絡顛覆:不容小覷的安全威脅」為篇名寫了一篇報導,以今年發生在伊朗和中國新疆烏魯木齊等地的群體事件為例,指責網上的Twitter、Facebook和Youtube等社交網站,被西方國家利用構成網路威脅。因此對網路實施監管,進行「網絡防禦」是保衛中國國家利益的重大問題。

而香港明報的報導則是說:「台北市教育局資訊室主任韓長澤表示,封鎖Facebook主要是擔心「偷菜」行為混淆學生價值觀。

兩篇新聞比起來相當有趣,不是嗎?

不知道從什麼時候開始,台灣的教育政策開始把學生都當作毫無判斷能力的白癡,所以我們要用禁止的方法去讓這些學生完全不可以接觸到「有道德疑慮的東西」。

一切的禁止、防堵只要冠上以教育之名的大帽子,就全部都合理了!

如果小遊戲裡面有偷菜的行為,就會讓我們的學生像是沒有思考能力的僵屍一樣紛紛效法。如果有網友為了抗議美國牛肉而吃牛糞,我們的學生就會忍不住誘惑紛紛跑去吃大便;所以這些東西都要禁止!

照這同樣的邏輯,我們的棒球比賽中不應該發生盜壘的行為,因為學生看了之後就會覺得偷東西還會得分,一定會不由自主的效法!所以下一局盜壘者一定要笑嘻嘻的把那一分還給對手,以便彰顯我們禮儀之邦的本色。

各國的獨立和革命歷史也都不該報導,因為這會讓學生以為用暴力奪取力量會變成受尊敬的人,所以大家對政府感到不滿的時候,都該要有禮貌的輕聲細語打招呼,絕對不可口出惡言抱怨或是示威抗議,因為這樣會破壞整個社會的道德邏輯。

(別忘記我們也不認為海綿寶寶是幼兒卡通但是怕孩子以為海底真有海綿寶寶這個說法.....太瞎了吧?)

瑪利兄弟這款遊戲也是非常嚴重的暴力遊戲,因為主角竟然會用頭去撞磚牆,撞了之後還會有金幣跑出來,更是嚴重的的變相鼓勵學生去撞牆,甚至遊戲中還有用腳踩烏龜的畫面,更是嚴重的負面示範,讓學生不由自主的會去虐待動物!我們的學生一定會忍不住就這麼變成一個又用頭撞牆又踩烏龜的變態!

喔,拜託!你知道網友反應嗎?在台北市這樣的政策之後,他們每一班的電腦裡面都裝了無界和自由門這兩套原先是用來突破中共網路封鎖的軟體。而中華電信推出的「色情守門員」在Google上最常被查詢的推薦結果是「如何破解色情守門員」!

如果玩的小遊戲裡面有偷菜的行為,價值觀就會偏差,這樣的教育結果有多麼失敗?

難道沒有人覺得,與其禁止網路連線,我們更該教導下一代的是如何分辨對錯的價值觀嗎?更應該讓他們具備的能力應該是分辨虛擬與現實的不同嗎?

禁止當然最快,但使用最快手段的教育機關,真的是最好的教育手段嗎?

Lucifer

(如果你只能拿這一則爛新聞來作辯解,那就不必了吧。)


(照台灣教育單位的看法,開心農場大概是史上最驚人的洗腦遊戲,他可以輕易的讓學生價值觀偏差!)

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迴響(436)

迴響 from: 6.21 [訪問者]
台灣的教育單位腦袋都有問題
2009-11-14 @ 18:19
迴響 from: 迺嘴 [訪問者] Email · http://blog.udn.com/yangnaijen
呵呵,教育單位繼續腦殘的話,我看早晚會有教育單位下令:「即日起各級學校封鎖朱學恒的阿宅萬事通事務所」....
2009-11-14 @ 18:24
迴響 from: dinosimon [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/dinosimon
*****
當老師說犯法不好,我們就要守法。
當老師說頹廢不好,我們就要用功。
當老師說上網不好,我們...........

我們換了一個老師。
2009-11-14 @ 18:45
迴響 from: Turkey [訪問者]
那要趁自由門還可以下載的時候快下載吧~
2009-11-14 @ 18:45
迴響 from: 孤夜寂空 [訪問者]
*****
分辨是非善惡果然還是目前國人最需要的啊!!
2009-11-14 @ 18:58
迴響 from: lololol [訪問者]
*****
1.facebook 的開心農場不是什麼好玩的遊戲,有小玩一下上去種種菜給朋友們偷.
2.如果所謂的教育當局都是這樣的話,我們也不用奢望有什麼教育改革吧!! 當然學生的教育是父母親和學校要一起努力的,學校教育不夠父母親們就只能自己努力點..
2009-11-14 @ 18:58
迴響 from: archer [訪問者]
****-
阿同伯和洪蘭不知道什麼時候要來對開新農場發表一下高見....
2009-11-14 @ 18:59
迴響 from: 希達哥 [訪問者]
讓我想到昨天的新聞,海洋專家跳出來嗆聲說:海裡真的有海綿體動物啊~而且還很多.

還敢說看卡通會讓小孩子缺乏想像力,他們自己才最沒有想像力吧.
2009-11-14 @ 19:01
迴響 from: Fan [訪問者]
一次兩次三次的顯示出,台灣有權者總是這樣的腦殘。但是我們卻甚麼也做不了。
2009-11-14 @ 19:13
迴響 from: MainFire [訪問者] Email
****-
有白吃的政府就有智障的學者
或許偷菜行為不好
難道那些學者就沒做錯事嗎?
憑什麼批判這些網站
有知識就了不起阿 我還鳥不起勒
那著名的「海角七號」裡面有出現"幹"一字
那不就要禁播 因為會使學生變的很沒品
他馬的馬政府 你說阿 這樣的話不就捨麼都得禁止
那乾脆什麼都不要出 什麼都不要看嘛!!
2009-11-14 @ 19:13
迴響 from: APERTURE [訪問者]
*----
其實這就是現在的政治常態.不管是4年前還是現在.政客們當了大官.卻毫無政績.看看我們的教育體系跟國外比起來.實在是無言....他們為了迴避.閃躲.掩飾.他們的無能.就找幾個倒楣鬼下手.並高喊:這是為了教育!.而FaceBook.就成了其中一個冤魂(連帶影響的更是無法計算)
2009-11-14 @ 19:26
迴響 from: Hung [訪問者] · http://hung.tw
@archer
怕到時那兩位發表的意見,會加速社會認同這個政策...
2009-11-14 @ 19:57
不用擔心我們都裝了無界和自由門.
(其實班上的電腦是用來打Game用的)
2009-11-14 @ 19:58
迴響 from: 跑步者 [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/ty880105
推 dinosimon
2009-11-14 @ 20:07
迴響 from: 王≠亡子 [訪問者]
我知道騜為什麼要進美國牛肉了

就是要讓大家腦袋都長洞嘛~!!!

2009-11-14 @ 20:11
迴響 from: 前20 無魚 蝦也好... [訪問者]
這篇

說真的



沙必死 比較少!(認真貌
2009-11-14 @ 20:43
迴響 from: lin6p [訪問者]
***--
我們公司(某銀行)不僅不能上facebook,連"朱學恒的阿宅萬事通事務所"&巴哈姆特也擋了。
害我上班時都不知道要幹嘛?只好一直看yahoo新聞。
2009-11-14 @ 21:30
迴響 from: enunion [訪問者] Email
我是朱大的忠實讀者,但說真的
我不同意這篇的看法 = =
開心農場還有一些遊戲對某些人說真的有致命的吸引力(我想宅大一定知道這件事.....)
會禁止facebook就是因為有太多人用上班時間
去玩facebook上的遊戲
老師也是人 也會有玩心
禁止的確是一件不算壞的政策

不能因為他的理由爛
就否決它是一個好政策的事實

(Lucifer:同樣的爛理由下次就會用來禁止你公開發表不支持主流意見的論點了,因為你說的話會腐壞學生心理。
2009-11-14 @ 21:31
迴響 from: MSN 8.5(拒絕強迫升級) [訪問者] · http://csie-tw.blogspot.com/2009/08/msn-85.html
****-
那這樣很多線上遊戲也都沒能完ㄌ
2009-11-14 @ 21:54
迴響 from: ozakiyuyu [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/ozakiyuyu
只知道一天到晚禁東禁西,這種治標不治本的想法一直在官員們的空洞腦中飄著...
2009-11-14 @ 21:55
迴響 from: 羊皮狼 [訪問者]
*****
禁止洪老爺的家還比禁止Facebook還要重要吧?
但我目前還沒看到學術網路有禁止過喔
2009-11-14 @ 22:36
迴響 from: 迪斯努夫 [訪問者]
台灣真是個好地方。
2009-11-14 @ 22:42
迴響 from: Beelzebub [訪問者] · http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/anruse/
*****
這讓我想到GTA事件

嗯,一堆線上遊戲可以收掉了
(按這個邏輯,打怪、公會戰、國戰等等都會誤導人民使用暴力)

全台灣宣布進入戒嚴好了
準備回歸中國大陸
2009-11-14 @ 22:50
迴響 from: Beelzebub [訪問者] · http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/anruse/
沒禁洪爺的家
是因為教授和官員要上去"吸收新知"
2009-11-14 @ 22:51
迴響 from: ㄎㄎman [訪問者] Email
*----
朱大! 為什麼你都可以對這種事情很敏感呢? 你甚麼時候要開始當一位老師呢? 我會第一個報名喔!! (雲科需要熱血的你(指))
2009-11-14 @ 23:00
迴響 from: 藍綠蜘蛛人 [訪問者]
真不曉得這些衛道人士腦袋裡在裝些什麼....
2009-11-14 @ 23:15
迴響 from: 路人甲 [訪問者]
臺灣的教育一直有一個很大的問題:他們沒有打算教導學生獨立思考的能力, 所以只會要學生照標準答案解答, 只准聽老師的話, 要效忠領袖, 為了國家要能犧牲一切......因為上面的都是對的, 所以下面的就不需要思考, 照辦就好; 這是方便統治所設計出來的教育方式, 在這種教育方式下, 就會很自然的假設學生是沒有思考能力的, 所以才會禁一切上頭覺得不妥的東西--即便禁的東西聽起來很愚蠢.
2009-11-14 @ 23:25
迴響 from: 國小老師 [訪問者]
*****
我是一位國小老師(雖然還很菜),說實話我覺得台北市教育局這種決策簡直是智障,炒炒新聞,做做政績而已,網路上有更多不該讓學生看得東西都沒說要禁了,檔Facebook只是凸顯這些老人們的恐慌而已。

更悲哀的是,堂堂首善之都教育局"資訊室"的主任對於網路認知竟然是如此幼稚,真不知道他當初怎麼當上這個位置的。
2009-11-14 @ 23:46
迴響 from: 阿東 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/stqtzeus
*****
18樓的那位顯然還在狀況外,這不是政策的問題,明知道上班時間不能玩遊戲還玩遊戲,如果不想認真工作,裁掉一點也不足惜,反正現在失業率那麼高,換個認真工作的員工,還能夠提高工作效率也是美事一件。
2009-11-14 @ 23:53
迴響 from: 王中之王的王 [訪問者]
嫌教育手段麻煩,所以直接禁....
這叫勤儉,節省資源(默

----

好啦,其實是要大家調整思維、和偉大的祖國接軌
為ECFA暖身(再默
2009-11-15 @ 00:13
迴響 from: 不會游泳不能潛水太久 [訪問者]
那個……
自從學生加我好友後,大考前我還可以監視他有沒有偷玩遊戲…
順便跟他爸媽打小報告…XD
當然不會說我是從FACEBOOK知道的
2009-11-15 @ 00:22
迴響 from: 辦公室也沒法上facebook [訪問者]
禁止公教人員玩facebook、開心農場是必要的,因為這會突顯出公教人員上班時間都無所事事、閒得要命,領的薪水卻比誰都還多的殘酷事實,造成一般勞工階段變成反政府份子,基於穩定政權的目的,當然要禁。由此可見,我們政府的思考邏輯果然跟對岸解放軍一樣深謀遠慮!
2009-11-15 @ 00:36
迴響 from: PassthebyLai [訪問者]
教育:

If

老師說:努力讀書,以後可以賺大錢

So

Facebook:努力偷菜,之後可以賣大錢

End
2009-11-15 @ 01:22
迴響 from: mxa [訪問者]
老人們看到 COD MW2 的 No Russia 應該會中風吧
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NMnnMRWJ-0
2009-11-15 @ 01:58
迴響 from: wahaha [訪問者]
*****
事務所的小標題....XD
2009-11-15 @ 01:59
迴響 from: RAY [訪問者]
****-
我上次在台南文學館看一位對早期漫畫家的迫害
滿類似現在的情況 作者畫了兔子的對話 被教育
局以動物怎會說話 會教壞小孩子理由將作品駁回
想不到60年後的台灣又再次發生同樣的事件
我想在真實世界偷菜 多半發生在颱風過後菜價飆漲時候 君不見哪時候農民都要在農寮駐守嗎 況且
偷菜的小偷也沒抓到 動機原因真相都還未清楚的時候就把偷菜情形怪罪開心農場 有未審先判的味道
2009-11-15 @ 02:11
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/baabuu
*****
***
閱畢~~

====
道德與教育最高!!
2009-11-15 @ 02:21
迴響 from: william [訪問者]
The problem I have with BANNING anything is that it usually drives people even more underground.

Parents banning porn sites because means kids will figure out a way to HIDE the fact they watch porns.

School banning facebook will make students FIGURE OUT a way to BREAK through the ban (which may be even less legit)

What are we teaching everyone? If you get banned or caught, figure out a way to HIDE the fact you are doing it or HACK your way out of it. Is this really more healthy than "stealing virtual vegetables?"

The proper way should be to know and monitor such activity and direct people to think toward the correct way, not to drive them underground or committ even more illegal activities.

Isn't there a chinese saying about fixing flood, "Better to create alternative flow than to plug it"?
2009-11-15 @ 02:30
迴響 from: ♪☺✿阿花,阿銀❀☻♫ [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/huaxiao123
*****
禁開農說因為偷菜沒品
害我聯想到大陸的魔獸
大陸的魔獸沒有盜賊這個職業
只有潛行者
也許他們覺得玩盜賊的人 可能會讓他們想當盜賊
不過如果把名字改成潛行者
居然就會神奇的不會讓人想當盜賊囉~

食人妖改巨魔同理~~~

亡靈長肉同理~~~

真和諧呀~>_0瞇揪
2009-11-15 @ 06:52
迴響 from: zuyan [訪問者] Email · http://maru.gates.tw/
****-
上班不上班者......斬
2009-11-15 @ 07:04
迴響 from: oldhan [訪問者]
妓者的話能聽牛絞肉也可以吃..
不久前還爆軍中演習一場勞軍晚會就會讓國軍無法打仗,
辛苦操練三四個月沒休假看給個小時歌舞會很過份嗎?
看新聞來制定政策更是頭殼空空.
2009-11-15 @ 08:24
迴響 from: 邁成功 [訪問者]
當天下一心,萬眾和皆之後,還有什麼不能當新聞了
公司都有管理的一套方式,倒不必擔心
誠如某位大大所說,
只有公務人員才要擔心這類的事
錢多事少就算了,該幫人民做事的公僕架子還比什麼都大,這才讓人心寒
2009-11-15 @ 10:07
迴響 from: Hemew [訪問者]
上課都可以看到一堆人在玩沒在聽課
反正是禁止上課時玩
那不就是主要對於大學的政策嗎@@
高中到國小一周也沒多少堂課有接觸電腦
至少這政策沒濫到那去
不過理由到是濫到可以

不過同樣的情況而言
政府也沒有所謂的方式可以制止學生上課遲到,睡覺,吃東西等等的惡習
這一點還要從教育上加強
至少在電腦課禁止臉書沒有什麼差別
上面也寫啦
學生自己也說反正回家可以玩
2009-11-15 @ 10:10
迴響 from: 水鬼 [訪問者]
教育局禁的是中小學,我覺得還好耶
大人都看談話節目辨別是非了
十幾歲的小孩子哪天真的去偷東西
不是很可惜嘛

最近新聞就可以看到
有大人真的去菜園偷菜阿
還是只過過歐菜的癮,拔了就丟掉
並不是真的沒東西吃

100個小朋友
若有一個真的跑去人家菜園偷菜
那還不如禁了吧

個人覺得,這是一種變相的分級制度


Lucifer:那你家的小朋友出門應該都要蒙住眼和塞住耳朵,不准看課本以外的任何東西?而且就說那個爛偷菜新聞不要拿來當作爛理由,還用,本部落格是不是要照分級制度,閱讀能力未達一定程度不可發言。
2009-11-15 @ 10:30
迴響 from: 水鬼 [訪問者]
不過,facebook到底有什麼好玩的阿
我認識的,每個都只是在玩小遊戲
我猜,過一陣子就退燒了
2009-11-15 @ 10:32
迴響 from: Typhone [訪問者]
***--
說句不中聽的話

我覺得您的文章有偷換概念之嫌,首先,該新聞中只說「台北市長郝龍斌上周市政會議中,指示市府網路全面禁用」、「學校裡的行政人員也都隸屬於北市府,因此也比照其他機關禁用」。用台北市市府的行為來類比國家行為似乎不妥。

第二、既然如此,那麼我們就應該用機構行為來類比機構行為。據我親身經歷,美國的一些學區電腦也都具有類似的防火牆來禁止瀏覽Facebook等網站。

第三點是我想為其辯護。我並不完全了解此新聞涉及的學校範圍,我假設涉及的是台北市國立中小學。
國立中小學的教育經費來源是人民的稅款,而其中的學生正常來說是未成年人,所以學生是否有資格登錄Facebook等網站應該以納稅人的意見決定。仍以美國為例,美國13歲以下的青少年有許多網路服務是需要監護人允許才能使用的。
納稅人繳錢給北市教育機構,其初中當然是為了教育學生。本次北市教育局未與納稅人協商便下此決定的確有待商榷,但他們一定是認為Facebook對學生教育並無特別重大的意義才會出此決定。

若各位北市公民有異議當然有權利向北市教育機構提出。

(Lucifer:啊說句不好聽的話,你的閱讀能力有很大的障礙。人家資訊室主任就說是防止偷菜教壞學生,我也寫了未成年不該使用隱私保護極差的社群網站,你還在那麼猜測什麼FACEBOOK對學生教育並無特別重大意義,那是不是所有對學生教育並不特別重大意義的東西都該禁止?連文章本身要表述的意義都看不懂,我是不是應該禁止你看我的部落格?
2009-11-15 @ 11:23
迴響 from: Typhone [訪問者]
回朱大
我同意因為偷菜腐壞學生說是相當愚蠢的,北市府機構以此作為禁用Facebook的理由也一樣愚蠢。我僅就另外一個可能理由來進行辯護,這個理由不一定就是北市府本來目的,但如果此理由成立,北市府的行為也一樣成立。

今天北市府並不是禁止私人電腦或網咖登錄Facebook,而是其管轄下的國立中小學。(以上有待求證) 理想上來說,人民繳稅讓學校提供教育網路,是為了教育目的。學生使用學校的教育網路,自然也應該為了教育目的。

所以同樣引用您新聞中的內容,「在學校玩不到,在家還是可玩。」

若各位北市公民覺得「學校網路資源也應該像網咖一樣完全為任何目的開放」或「Facebook對教育目的不衝突甚至有利」那當然可以向北市府提出。

ps. (跟主討論無關) 這個Blog是您的,您當然有權力決定要不要給我看,只是技術上做不做得到罷了。

(Lucifer:誰來決定什麼是教育目的,什麼不是?我們的教育教出一群連教不教育都分辨不出來的學生家長和老師,是成功的教育?
2009-11-15 @ 12:29
迴響 from: 來自火星的ET [訪問者]
不要被模糊焦點了
重點是討論禁FACEBOOK這件事的實質意義
並非誰來禁~或著哪個國家也有禁
在對納稅人的權益感到疑慮之前
是否應該先想到
難道你納稅人把孩子丟給學校之後就高枕無憂了嗎?
孩子在學校的時間多還是在學校以外的時間多?
我同意朱大對台灣的教育理念提出的質疑
禁FACEBOOK這件事只是一個治標不治本或著說難聽一點就是殺雞儆猴做做樣子的措施而已
並沒有對孩子的教育有實質幫助
何況玩過開心農場就讓孩子以為偷東西是正確的
那教育單位是否更該檢討一下道德與倫理這項教育的內容?
至於上課或上班偷玩這點
純粹只是個人自制力的問題
如朱大所說
台灣的教育就是上級命令下級照辦
造成很多孩子的獨立性及創造力不足
養成"跟著別人走就不會錯"的觀念
當自己都不知道自己為什麼要這樣做的時候
如何會有自制力可言?
現在世界太和平~新聞媒體唯恐天下不亂
政府有如驚弓之鳥~有做總比沒做好
所以會搞出這種事也沒辦法
只能祈禱未來會更好
2009-11-15 @ 12:43
迴響 from: Beelzebub [訪問者] · http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/anruse/
當國家只會用"禁止"來限制人民的時候

那麼

革命的日子終將來臨

講句白一點的

如果沒意義的事物都要禁
請持贊成此政策立場者申論一下
"什麼叫做沒意義"
"什麼叫做有意義"

正義和道德
不是用"禁止"就能教出來的
2009-11-15 @ 13:27
迴響 from: RR [訪問者] · http://roseroo.spaces.live.com/
***--
> 禁止當然最快,但使用最快手段的教育機關,真的是最好的教育手段嗎?

全篇只有這句是重點,其他都是無限上綱

(Lucifer:放屁,正妹圖哪有無限上綱!閱讀能力有問題!
2009-11-15 @ 14:00
迴響 from: MainFire [訪問者] Email
TO:Typhone
美國他們對所有13歲以下的青少年(大概也只有小學)進行封鎖或者是要監護人同意才能使用,但是,你知道為什麼嗎?因為他們有統一實行這個政策,相較之下,台灣勒?區域性的政策!壞的就不講了,好的政策幾乎只有北縣才能享受的到,阿南部的我們怎麼辦?難道就像古代的君王時代嗎?政策只有對王宮附近的區域有效,邊境地區幾乎沒效。孟子說:「...,路上有活活餓死的人卻不知道要發倉賑濟,老百姓死了,卻說:『這不是我的錯,是年歲災凶造成的啊!』這和用刀子把人殺死了,卻說:『(人)不是我殺的,是刀子殺的。』有什麼不同呢?...」這就是現在的政府,說好了要做的政策,做了,效果並不好,就開始推卸責任;你說,這政府還會有什麼好的政策!!
2009-11-15 @ 14:45
迴響 from: 水鬼 [訪問者]

因為已經是一個民主的社會,所以有多元的意見是很好
所以我部會要求所有的小朋友都要閉上眼睛著耳朵,不準看課外讀物,不認同自己的意見就視為異類。

有誰可以告訴我,自己是幾歲的時候擁有獨立判斷的能力?沒有獨立判斷能力的時候,又是怎麼做的?

僅回覆
(Lucifer:那你家的小朋友出門應該都要蒙住眼和塞住耳朵,不准看課本以外的任何東西?而且就說那個爛偷菜新聞不要拿來當作爛理由,還用,本部落格是不是要照分級制度,閱讀能力未達一定程度不可發言。)
2009-11-15 @ 14:56
迴響 from: wave [訪問者]
****-
剛看完惡魔教室,(THE WAVE),而且還是在土豆網上看到的喔,不禁會聯想,政府跟那些老師,只是想要好控制的人民跟學生罷了
2009-11-15 @ 14:56
迴響 from: APERTURE [訪問者]
@MireFire
我希望你不是同意這個政策.沒錯.美國(有些)地區有實施這個政策.但是他們有公開宣布.取得多數人的同意.可是我們.卻沒有.執政者想到啥就做啥.而且不理會民意.這是個滿嚴重的問題.難不成.改天郝XX被狗咬就要學大陸某大官一樣.禁止台北縣養狗?(無須經過民意)看來他們比較適合共產黨.(或許他們線再就是在實習共產黨的執政方式)
2009-11-15 @ 15:20
迴響 from: 約翰走路 [訪問者]
當權者思想守舊 對於自己不理解的東西
就盲目地限制 禁止

反正上有政策 下有對策
最後只是惡性循環

2009-11-15 @ 16:27
迴響 from: 草本肉食 [訪問者] Email · http://homeboy1981.pixnet.net
看來我們小學的修辭學都學假的,為了學生們誤會動物會說話,所以應該要規定所有使用擬人法的文字都屬於有害圖書。要是小朋友看到了都以為米奇鰻會跟大黑熊講話那他們以後長大都要變成神經病了。

啊幹! 照這個邏輯來看,我們政府應該要全面禁止過聖誕節才行啊!要是小孩子以為12月25日送他們禮物的是一個紅衣紅帽還會呵呵笑的胖老頭,那麼他們長大後會變得不懂感激父母,而且胖老頭會教小朋友爬煙囪闖空門,這是會禍國殃民的啊!

神送給人類自由意志這樣的大禮,想不到卻有一群自私的蠢蛋想盡辦法要消滅人們的個性。
2009-11-15 @ 18:03
迴響 from: 白寧謙 [訪問者]
都只往壞處看...

看超現實卡通有時反而能刺激想像力吧...

用大人的世界來限制小孩的世界,可悲。
2009-11-15 @ 22:07
迴響 from: 上班要認真....裝忙 [訪問者]
*****
那些官到底腦中裝瞎密我實在很想知道...
所以
CS該禁 持槍持刀暴力遊戲!
皮克斯動畫一律禁播 劇情角色完全不合邏輯!
火影忍者該禁 打打殺殺成何體統!
多拉A夢該禁 校園霸凌天天上演!
航海王該禁 公然對抗世界政府!
這就是我們的教育...?
2009-11-15 @ 22:38
迴響 from: 左光紫 [訪問者]
水鬼:
有誰可以告訴我,自己是幾歲的時候擁有獨立判斷的能力?沒有獨立判斷能力的時候,又是怎麼做的?

學習,思考,歸納,學習,思考,歸納,...
在我小時無法判斷事物的虛實,在父母、師長,我周圍的一切都否定你學習、思考、歸納的初步結果時,仍然不斷學習、思考、歸納,感謝我認識的女友,她是我人生最大的救贖!她同意我所自行獲得的教育理念是已存在的教育理論。
但我仍然繼續學習、思考、歸納,學習、思考、歸納,...
至少,我目前所獲得的,應該是可以貫穿歷史,通行世界的方法原則。
2009-11-15 @ 23:31
迴響 from: 花扎扎 [訪問者]
最後一張圖是在鼓勵裸體做家事嗎?

可惜po過了~~~別偷懶啦!!
2009-11-15 @ 23:35
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
"該不該禁什麼"的相對性就是:“需要教些什麼“
當需要教的沒在我們的基礎教育中出現的時候,當權者為了掩飾這一點,就只好禁些什麼了...

一個小學老師的看法
2009-11-16 @ 00:07
迴響 from: WoW [訪問者]
唯一好處是同學們"駭客能力"會變強= =+
2009-11-16 @ 00:13
迴響 from: 北市小學生真幸福 [訪問者] Email
所以,敘利亞、埃及、伊朗、中國與北市中小學生一樣,都有免費而且頻寬無窮盡的學術網路可以用,好幸福啊,不知其他縣市如何吶。
2009-11-16 @ 00:23
迴響 from: ILTEA [訪問者]
恭喜 板大 當爸爸囉
您分享一個資訊
我小孩今年暑假才剛考過ILTEA劍橋小院士兒童英檢,他是讀台北某私立國際校小學,是老師建議我們考的,因為ILTEA小院士符合教育部採認的國際標準,所以我們家兒子就報考Level 3高級級數,成績Pass with Distinction~真不賴~
我們考 ILTEA 還有一個優點,明年我要送小孩到加拿大讀書,聽說可以憑這證書進入溫哥華公立中小學就讀,這樣可以省卻我很多的申請作業.
純分享 剛溫阿 ~~
http://www.cambridge.org.tw/epaper/coquitlam.htm
2009-11-16 @ 00:59
迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
== 大推 ==

迴響 from: WoW [訪問者]
唯一好處是同學們"駭客能力"會變強= =+

=====================

給朱大補充資料:

【中國觀察】中國的金盾工程!
http://sophist4ever.pixnet.net/blog/post/20865159

簡介:

  中國大陸建立的全國大型網路封鎖系統稱為「金盾工程」,目前封鎖了世界上三分之二的網站。最主要的功能除了封鎖中國境外的各式網站外,還能監控中國所有網友上網的紀錄。

  簡而言之,可以算是專制政權下的數位資訊電檢制度。「金盾工程」投入的費用極為龐大,相當於全年中國基礎小學教育的預算總額。許多西方網路科技公司為了搶食中國市場的這塊大餅,亦不惜協助中國建立這道數位長城,其中數家美國的網路科技公司更因此受到美國國會的聽證會調查。目前「金盾工程」屏蔽了全世界的三分之一網站,甚至包括台灣所有的部落格供應商。其中本部落格所在的痞客邦亦為其中之一。

  「金盾工程」除了封鎖境外的網站外,更重要的一點就是監控中國網友的網路發言。近幾年來因為在網上發表不滿中國政府的言論而遭到逮捕的網上異議人士可說是族繁不及備載。特別是對於重大突發事件的輿論控制,中國政府習慣封鎖所有的消息,並且驅逐國外記者。所有中國各級媒體均採用新華社與CCTV的通稿,不准私下進行任何報導,於是全世界的人都無法獲得突發事件的任何最新訊息,事件的詮釋權就落到中國官方的手裡。

2009-11-16 @ 05:49
迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
*****
給朱大補充資料:

利用遊戲招募間諜?
http://chinese.engadget.com/2007/10/21/britain-recruiting-spies-with-ads-embedded-in-video-games/


  在電玩遊戲世界當中下廣告,應該已經不算是啥太新鮮的事情,不過那天遊戲玩到一半,突然發現保密防諜、人人有責,請洽0800007007 的字眼出現在牆上,千萬不要急著把那面牆給打爛,因為你可能失去一份公務員的工作。

  英國的政府通訊總部(Government Communications Headquarters,GCHQ),這個在英國職司通訊、資訊系統安全的單位,最近開始在縱橫諜海4:雙面間諜(Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent)這款遊戲當中,透過網路將廣告放入遊戲裡頭,(PC、XBOX360)用以徵招有為、愛國、肯犧牲 電腦狂、科技迷、思維敏捷的玩家們,來替他們做事。

  這個機關主要是截聽加密通訊,兼為政府做資安工作的(來源:英文維基百科 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Communications_Headquarters),主要工作就是加密和解密(當年有把德國的加密機破掉的輝煌成績),那麼招請電腦迷也不是甚麼怪事……

2009-11-16 @ 06:20
迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
給網友補充資料:

2009/03/07 頭條新聞: 綠壩不霸?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB2dD63EiE8&feature=fvsr

2009-11-16 @ 06:41
迴響 from: sk3s [訪問者]
*----
請問香港媒體是教育局的迴蟲嗎?
他們說什麼你們就信什麼?

禁止學校玩開心農場這種天經地義的政策,
被媒體一講卻變成了防礙資訊自由的禍源?
2009-11-16 @ 08:31
迴響 from: jasonpid [訪問者]
看到知識+的情色守門員那裡真是太好笑了,
如果是朱阿宅看到朱小宅在看情色網頁,
應該會說: 孩子,讓你看老爸珍藏多年的女神:高樹瑪利亞
科科
2009-11-16 @ 09:04
迴響 from: 水鬼 [訪問者]
左兄
你說的很好,我也很贊同
但是,不是每個人從小都有這麼好的觀念與堅持
教育這種事,是要照顧到(幾乎)所有受教者
你說是吧

尤其是,小朋友每個人都有像你一樣的觀念嘛
我敢說,不可能

所以我個人認為
教育,要採低標
我說的低標,是要照顧到每一個人
以這個例子來講
要照顧到沒辦法獨立思考判斷能力的人

私以為
有能力思考反省判斷的人,在這個例子裡
根本不受影響
或者是,真的要去做壞事的時候
會考慮很多

抱歉,讓你費神看我胡言亂語
2009-11-16 @ 09:12
迴響 from: 水鬼 [訪問者]
其實,講白一點
禁不禁這東西,我覺得不重要
facebook真的很無聊
教育局(是吧,懶得查)只是消極的禁止中小學使用
老師沒facebook就不能用其他方式跟家長學生聯絡嘛,不可能阿

我覺得,這只是一個新聞話題而以
教育局也要面對部分家長要求
不要讓小朋友在學校學一些不良習慣

爐果你是教育單位,有辦法提出亙好的辦法
弭平各種不同意見
就當我在放屁XD
2009-11-16 @ 09:36
迴響 from: charlie [訪問者]
Sr.Ken Robinson - Do schools kill creativity? 教育扼殺了創意

這是一個在嘉珍老師的演講中提到的 TED 中 的一場有關教育的演講,與賽斯教育的方向是不謀而合。請參考看看。

http://blog.xuite.net/jialing/index/28456129
(在此頁面第三段影片, 十分極力推薦給像李家同及其它像李家同的人或團體觀看)




2009-11-16 @ 09:43
迴響 from: Sagitta [訪問者]
"但是,不是每個人從小都有這麼好的觀念與堅持"......恕刪

但是,我們不都是這樣活過來的啊!「學習、思考、歸納」,不就是我們從小到大在做的決定?哪些該做、那些不該做?該怎樣拒絕壞朋友和應付壞大人?其實想想,從小到大,有多少的決定是父母、師長下達指定、給定答案的?大人們教導原則,小孩子判斷學習,我們就是這樣活過來的!現在小孩哪有那麼低能?也許小朱三歲就可以和朱宅玩 PSP 了!(但這對小孩不好,不是指暴力遊戲內容,而是小指頭還在發育!)
2009-11-16 @ 09:53
迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
給網友補充資料:


綠壩娘之歌★繁體中文字幕
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsw23W019SA&feature=related

河蟹你全家
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoctOtGJjVk&NR=1

初音未來 -- 河蟹你全家
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdjviz2_pPQ&feature=related

2009-11-16 @ 10:32
迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
*****
給網友補充資料:


正妹版

簡介:自動屏蔽 是我的萌點
   維持風紀 不擇手段

藍衣正妹:
河蟹你全家 Luka Luka Night Fever(歌詞)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsUUVXNlBOs&feature=related

白衣正妹:
河蟹你全家 Luka Luka Night Fever(ルカルカ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pfrPJIp7bk&feature=related

金絲貓正妹:
河蟹你全家 Luka Luka Night Fever(ルカルカ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFIoWbi4q8s&feature=related

學生妹:
ルカルカ★ナイトフィーバー (Luka Luka ✩ Night Fever)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vttv4eUfMV8&feature=related



PS:
綠壩 - 花季護航 Green Dam 使用畫面
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PKEstFPXz8&NR=1

和諧進行曲 附字幕
曲 : 聶耳(1912-1935)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a9DMAIokUg&feature=fvw

2009-11-16 @ 10:50
迴響 from: leejing [訪問者]
棒球有盜壘
乾脆禁打棒球..
籃球有抄球
籃球也可禁了..
2009-11-16 @ 11:08
迴響 from: ADempiere ERP [訪問者] · http://adempiere.tw
其實教育局不用管這麼多的, 給上課的老師去決定就好了.

開心農場應該也只是一時的一窩蜂現象.
2009-11-16 @ 11:56
迴響 from: 水鬼 [訪問者]
呵呵
最後一次在這回覆

能做到總統應該不會低能吧
那為什麼明知道不能貪汙
還是拿的很爽
2009-11-16 @ 12:06
迴響 from: 水龍 [訪問者]
水鬼,完全認同你的看法,就像現在那個

以前的"建設",啥貓纜,內湖捷運,小巨蛋,大巨蛋,夜市改建,不是失敗,就是塌了,每個都是亂花錢的煙火式建設,還不是一堆腦袋外掛在媒體上的丁丁對他感覺很好?
2009-11-16 @ 12:20
迴響 from: crusher [訪問者]
看看我們的教育,以啥奧林匹亞數學競賽好了,年年得第一,但試問,有哪一個世界知名的數學家是台灣人?學校教育與社會需求脫節以此例可看的很清楚!

歐洲已經有國家開放學生考試可上網了!比open book還進步,就是因為,背在腦袋中,只有專業人士需要,或是,有朝一日需要,你自然會去背誦,但是要解決問題,還是要靠自己的理解與判斷,我國的教育,還在開倒車,要求學生把幾千年前不是那麼重要的八股文,背在腦袋中...

老師只是一種職業,當然希望學生只要聽話就好,反正性騷擾後,還是可以繼續為人師表交公民與道德阿!但父母也要自己想想,有朝一日,你的子女成材,要是會孝順,也是孝順你,不會去孝順老師,小孩子生出來,不是射後不理,丟給學校就好了.....
2009-11-16 @ 13:05
迴響 from: 水鬼 [訪問者]
淦,我破戒了

不曉的樓上的你完全同意我的看法

跟貓纜,內湖捷運,小巨蛋,大巨蛋,夜市改建,不是失敗,就是塌了,每個都是亂花錢的煙火式建設

這些事情有什麼相干??

或許是舉政治的例子不好,我道歉
2009-11-16 @ 13:24
迴響 from: 新月 [訪問者] · http://blog.xuite.net/s08333/lamkee
個人的經驗是: 小時候真的會相信把聖誕襪掛起來會收到禮物...

會相信人可以練內功到神兆發動,真氣運轉...

也會相信只要像星馬豪般一聲大喝,旋風麥林就會加速前進...

當然到人長大了,就會知道哪些是幻想,哪些是現實,不過人在小時候,還沒有獨立的批判性思考時,真的很容易受資訊所影響,接收到什麼就相信什麼...加上小孩很喜歡模仿,相信大家都聽過很多少年或是兒童模仿特技導致受傷的新聞了...

問題是,是不是"有可能造成不良後果的東西",我們就應禁止呢?

"小遊戲裡面有偷菜的行為,為免影響學生的價值觀,應予以禁止"這種說詞是荒謬的。的確,我們不排除這個遊戲有造成這種後果的可能性,但是這就表示他應該被禁止嗎?教育到底只是"告訴你偷菜是不該的事"就了事,還是除此之外,更能讓你"能夠分辨什麼是該做,什麼又是不該做的事"呢?要是我們禁止學童接觸一切我們認為是"不正當"的行為,那麼學童們根本就不可能學會如何分辨是非呀!


在我的見解,提出這種政策的人,不是腦殘,就是別有用心,再不然就是受了壓力不得不找點"好"事來做。
2009-11-16 @ 13:52
迴響 from: ILTEA [訪問者]
恭喜 板大 當爸爸囉
教育確實是百年大計 非常重要
跟大家分享一個資訊
我小孩今年暑假才剛考過ILTEA劍橋小院士兒童英檢,他是讀台北某私立國際校小學,是老師建議我們考的,因為ILTEA小院士符合教育部採認的國際標準,所以我們家兒子就報考Level 3高級級數,成績Pass with Distinction~真不賴~
我們考 ILTEA 還有一個優點,明年我要送小孩到加拿大讀書,聽說可以憑這證書進入溫哥華公立中小學就讀,這樣可以省卻我很多的申請作業.
純分享 剛溫阿 ~~
http://www.cambridge.org.tw/epaper/coquitlam.htm
2009-11-16 @ 14:02
迴響 from: catherine [訪問者]
****-
其實我想上班或上課玩遊戲絕對是不好的,不過如果以為封鎖網站就可以解決問題的話,那麼會不會是太天真的想法?覺得怕開心農場偷菜的行為會影響小孩子的觀念,那麼是不是應該開誠佈公的跟小孩討論類似的行為如果在現實中上演會有怎樣的後果,這樣是不是對小孩才有正面的幫助?如果執政者想到什麼就禁什麼,那上班看股票也不應該啊,是不是也要把奇摩股票封鎖?
2009-11-16 @ 14:51
迴響 from: 拆組達人 [訪問者] · http://blog.iegoffice.com/
唉!白痴腦殘政府!狗屁專家學者!
這兩個職業搭配起來可以發揮最大效能!
是初生及二轉必練職業啊!= ="
2009-11-16 @ 15:00
迴響 from: 左光紫 [訪問者]
如果是我,我是教育局,我今天會在教育局網站上發出一篇屬於教育局針對開心農場的立場觀點。
說明開心農場所內定的規則,與現實生活的相異之處。
更進一步延伸闡述追求虛擬與追求現實之間的異同處。
是否要進一步影響各校教學方針?不,那就不是我打算要做的,因為民主本來就是每個人都必須不斷訓練自己的學習、思考能力,在保證言論多元化的情況下,才能使民主在世界上不斷的繼續維持。
為了達到以上目的,不如設法改善老師教學的品質與改變師資培育政策方為上策。

PS:
每個人都有自己選擇的權力,就算你所感受到的世界都是否定你,並不表示自己就只能肯定你所感受到的世界之觀點。只是,這個過程不輕鬆就是了。
2009-11-16 @ 15:37
迴響 from: 左光紫 [訪問者]
喔,還必須規劃可以讓任何人享受盡可能多的免費圖書資源。
2009-11-16 @ 15:39
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
***--
政府的創意都拿來用在...

淨化人心NCC
瑤瑤爆乳真淫亂
開心農場育盜拓
效法中國嚴把關

總之政府對管不動又不了解的東西...就是~
禁!!!!!!!
2009-11-16 @ 15:54
迴響 from: 強人鐵忠 [訪問者]
看完這則新聞 我真的覺得很無聊 咱們的下一代 真的是這麼沒有判斷能力嗎? 可是我怎麼覺得 他們的資料取得比我們快速 豐富 很多東西他們懂得比我們早? 如果我們的教育單位 學會的只是用這樣的方式來做所謂的控管 那我還真是汗顏 不知道我們選這些人出來 要做些什麼? 慘啊~
2009-11-16 @ 16:19
迴響 from: 一塊錢 [訪問者] · http://devilmen.blogspot.com/
*****
除了無言還能說什麼??這就像以前禁歌是一樣的。。。。因為流行歌曲都是糜糜之音。。。。
2009-11-16 @ 17:39
迴響 from: 洛克仔 [訪問者] · http://roxlala.com
*****
上面有位大大說得真的很好
"用大人的世界來限制小孩的世界,可悲。"

為什麼我們都一定會認為自己比小孩子明白得多呢?
大人的想法都一定是好的對的嗎?

你確定多活幾年就比較偉大嗎?
2009-11-16 @ 18:21
嗯!
重點應該是如何教育孩子們 讓他們分辨現實與虛擬的能力。


2009-11-16 @ 19:58
迴響 from: 無盡‧永恆 [訪問者] Email
*****
二十幾年前有個機構叫新聞局,負責審核各種出版品,文字、聲音、影像,只要該機構祭出「違反善良風俗」、「怪力亂神」等類似說法,該著作物就無法出版。

而那時候,我們在戒嚴時期。

二十幾年後,我們解嚴了許多年,可是很明顯的政府官員的腦袋並沒有解嚴,還是用相同的一套邏輯禁這個禁那個。為什麼?因為人民越不會獨立思考,政府就越好管理。所以,我們會看到,瑤瑤賣弄性感不可以,禁;開心農場鼓勵偷竊不可以,禁;還有更多更多政府禁止的事項。然後不會獨立思考的人民也很開心,反正我只要照著政府規定的哪些可以做,哪些不能做,不需要思考就可以活得很開心,如果有錯還可以把責任推到政府、學校、老師,以及任何第三者身上,因為那又不是我做的決定,責任不在我身上。

想禁就繼續吧,支持政府禁東禁西的人也繼續支持吧,反正當你們的小孩哪天起來反抗時,你還可以把責任推給政府。
2009-11-16 @ 21:18
迴響 from: ken1234 [訪問者]
***--
該做的不做,做一堆無聊事. 就因為最近開心農場很紅, 正好拿來做宣揚政績的種子. 要禁止facebook, 不如禁止美國牛肉進口比較實際一點!
2009-11-16 @ 21:36
迴響 from: 大鳥姊姊 [訪問者]
http://iamwindy.pixnet.net/blog/post/25365900
2009-11-16 @ 22:26
迴響 from: chien [訪問者]
*****
贊同你
台灣教育單位實在是腦殘
與其禁止不如教他們自行判斷
假裝這麼有魄力
為什麼不直接禁止facebook在台灣出現
直接跟國際企業槓上
還會突然覺得 挖台灣政府好有魄力阿~~
政府官員老愛在瑣碎小事展現魄府魄力
無聊!
教育千瘡百孔什麼不做專挑最簡單!
2009-11-17 @ 00:09
迴響 from: 舊世紀福音戰士 [訪問者]
贊成查禁一切戕害兒童心靈或教導錯誤觀念的事物!

請先查禁所有關聖誕老人的圖像與故事及相關活動。
宮崎峻的卡通宣揚妖怪與巫術,
哈利波特全篇盡是魔法,
迪士尼宣稱老鼠、狗、鴨子會說話,
海底總動員裡,魚不僅會說話,還認得自己老爸是誰哩。
週記事先寫好的沒品行為,也不符合教育理念,
總統府網站應該封鎖…..

凡此種種皆為顛倒視聽、阻礙未成年心靈正常發展之有害事物,
為國家民族後代著想,政府理應即刻展開心靈淨化運動,
還給青少年一個乾淨的空間。

2009-11-17 @ 04:51
迴響 from: panda [訪問者]
戒嚴教育下出產的官僚
就會有戒嚴的思想
這是沒辦法的事
只是為何不只把遊戲連結封鎖
而是封鎖整個facebook網站
這讓我想不透.....
2009-11-17 @ 08:06
迴響 from: 6年級生 [訪問者]
***--
我們這一代(6年級前段生)心中其實有個很大的痛,就是為什麼台灣人只有日本或香港漫畫可以看,台灣人自己的漫畫在那裡?而起因則是推到戒嚴時期的出版品審查制度。

在50年代,台灣的漫畫其實在東亞一帶算是獨領風騷的,什麼牛伯伯、諸葛四郎等漫畫都是處在出口的高度上(當然都是盜版的),可是在出版品審查制度執行的那一段時間,台灣的漫畫家不是被打壓,就是憤而投筆、封筆,舉例說明如下:

1.某一本土漫畫家,其漫畫主角是擬人化的動物(像是米老鼠唐老鴨那種的角色),某日就被請到國立編譯館喝茶,委員們非常不客氣的指責該作家,稱其作品將誤導國家幼苗,使珍貴的幼苗們產生動物會說話的錯誤認知云云...

2.某次審查會議結論:有部漫畫描述有關由未來世界來的機器貓的,應當視為不良讀物,因為漫畫中經常出現女主角出浴畫面(色情),還有男主角屢次偷看女主角洗澡的情節(違反道德)等。
PS:因為上述漫畫非本土漫畫家(大家都知道是日本)所作,且世面上均為盜版品,管制不易,所以會議結論礙難執行。

將近半個世紀過去了,這種大帽子文化居然又有了死灰復燃的跡象(海棉寶寶會誤導小孩?開心農場推廣不道德觀念?),朱大的激烈反應是可想而知的。

禁止公務人員上班玩遊戲是應該的,因為上班玩遊戲而要開除公務人員是困難的(很抱歉,但是是事實),所以使用禁連也是一個可行的選項;但是,把開心農場的遊戲方式拉到違反道德的高度,扣上教育的大帽子,則就有點超過了。
2009-11-17 @ 09:45
迴響 from: AQWA [訪問者]
*****
給朱大/網友補充資料:

【歐巴馬昨天(16日)上海演說】

網友提問:

第一,有這麼多網路使用者的國家,有6000萬寫部落格的人,你知道防火牆的事情嗎?

(補充:指的是GFW,請查維基百科。懂得查詢IP位置的人,請在中國以外的地方查詢中國大陸各大知名的入口網站,所有IP都是從北京發出到國際上。)

第二,我們是不是應該自由的使用TWITTER?

  歐巴馬:首先讓我說,我從來沒有使用過TWITTER。我注意到一些年輕人,他們一直很忙,有各種各樣的電子器材,很笨重。但是我還是非常相信技術的作用,非常重視開放性。在資訊流通方面,我認為越是能夠自由的資訊流通,社會就變得越強,因為這樣子,世界各地的公民能讓自己的政府負責,有一個問責制度,他們自己會思考,這樣會有新的想法,鼓勵創造性。所以我一直是堅定的支持網路開放的使用,我非常支持不對內容做審查。在美國我過去談過,這是我們的一個傳統,我也認識到不同的國家有不同的傳統,但是我可以告訴各位,在美國,我們可以不受限制的使用網路,這是我們力量的來源,也是應該受到鼓勵的。

2009-11-17 @ 09:59
迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
  但是我也應該很誠實的告訴各位,作為美國總統,有的時候我還是希望資訊不是那麼自由的流通,因為這樣我就不需要聽到人們在批評我。我認為很自然的,在人處於一個權力地位的時候,就會想到,你為什麼這樣說我,你這樣說是很不負責的。

  可是真實的情況是,在美國資訊是自由的,在美國有很多人以各種各樣的事情批評我,但我還是認為,這樣才會使得我們的民主制度變得更強,使我變成一個更好的領導人,因為它迫使我聽到一些我不願意聽到的意見,也迫使我審查我正在做的事情,每天都要審查,要看我是不是真的為美國人民做我能做的最好的事情。所以我認為網路現在已經變成一個更強的工具,可以讓公民來參與。

  實際上,我這次勝選,當了總統的一個原因之一,就是我們能夠動員很多年輕人,通過網路來動員。剛開始的時候,沒有人會想到我會贏,因為我們沒有最富裕的支持者、政治上最有權利的人支持我們,可是人們通過網路看到我們競選,他們開始感到很興奮,他們就組織起來成立一些競選的活動、事件和集會,結果就產生了這些從下往上的結果,使我們獲得成功。

這不僅在政府和政治,在企業界也一樣。像Google這種公司,不到20年前,它只是兩個年齡跟你們差不多一樣的人創業,本來是科學的實驗,後來因為網路,他們能夠創造一個產業,這個產業使得全世界各地的商業發生一場革命。
  所以要不是有很自由的開放性,就像網路所提供的開放性,那Google不會存在,所以我很支持一個做法,就是不要限制網路的使用、接觸或者像TWITTER這種資訊技術,越開放越能夠溝通,使全世界聯繫在一起。像我的兩個女兒瑪麗亞和娜塔莎,一個是11歲,一個是8歲,在她們的房間可以上網,通過網路可以達到世界任何地方,可以學到她們想學的內容,這是她們巨大的力量,她們擁有這種力量,也有利於促進相互理解。

  就像我剛才所說的,技術也有負面,恐怖分子也可以通過網路做一些以前他們做不到的事情,有一些極端分子也可以動員。當然開放性肯定要付出某種代價,這是不能否認的。可是我想好的遠遠多於壞的,所以還是保持開放是好的,我很高興網路也作為這個論壇的一部分。


來源:http://news.chinatimes.com/2007Cti/2007Cti-News/2007Cti-News-Content/0,4521,50103364+132009111600952,00.html
2009-11-17 @ 10:03
迴響 from: 請您針對日本最夯的一本書作個專輯 [訪問者] · http://lemin0121@yahoo.com.tw
*****
最近日本非常夯的 一本書叫 思考整理學 似乎和您早在前年的創意與熱情不謀而合 請朱老師作個專輯評論一下 希望再次聽聽您對教育的精見
2009-11-17 @ 10:30
迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
*****
給朱大/網友補充資料(最後的補完):

河蟹你全家(真人男版)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKNvaeEYGRI&feature=related

原曲(COSPLAY)
ルカルカ★ナイトフィーバー 踊ってみた
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JANrfTrHJWQ&feature=related


PS.
樓上的:舊世紀福音戰士,這名子取得好,我喜歡!(羞""")

樓上的:ILTEA的機器人工夫挺好笑的,豬大只要一提到「教育」就會跑出來說他兒子讀書讀的好。......科科科

2009-11-17 @ 10:34
迴響 from: shing [訪問者]
Do not think Taiwan is the only place that "lock" computers at work places. Chat/IM software sometimes are also locked in office or schools in US. There are people fired because reading porn pictures in the offices in US too. It all depends on the company policy. Also, when we work in the office, we will never let boss see, or even notice we are using computer to do "personal" entertainment. People I know rarely PLAY facebook during work hours either. We are very careful, because we really need to keep our jobs.
2009-11-17 @ 11:41
迴響 from: jjy [訪問者]
給希達哥
不只海裡有海綿體動物,
我也有海綿體......
(我是來亂的)
2009-11-17 @ 12:21
迴響 from: 自由人 [訪問者] Email
*****
我是國小老師,也算是宅男(魔獸快封頂78級獵人),也是學校的網管人員,更在學校教電腦。我只能說,決策者的年齡,和我們的年齡有著不小的差距。他們對電腦網路的認知,說出來各位可能會嚇到。僅僅是一個中午二十五分鐘的使用電腦的時間,就要求學生先打字,才能玩遊戲或是上網。各國中小電腦教室管理規則中也有不可以玩遊戲的字樣,甚至,連遊樂場都沒有灌(暈...XD)。我則是喜歡學生自由的玩遊戲(過於暴力的、色情的還是會管),甚至學生提前完成作業我也會讓他們自由的用一下電腦。只能說,這些下決定和做管理的人,有幾個是真的了解在遊戲中的行為的,都是把問題丟給電腦遊戲、或是電視媒體、還是水果日報、、、等。這樣比較容易,反正也有很多家長反對孩子玩遊戲,現在只要縣(市)民反映到縣(市)長的信箱,他們就要有所動作。教育處(局)也一樣,所以不一定是官員的問題。
2009-11-17 @ 13:18
迴響 from: 豬豬人 [訪問者]
各位都講得頭頭是道,但是其實被政府長期洗腦的問題比你我想的都要嚴重,都要深化。

台灣政府官員對於不懂的東西又不想管的就是禁!!!

大家都很同意,但是我提出一個看法,相信大家又是站在政府的角度了。

禁行機車 and 重機禁行高速公路。

Well....
套用以上很多人的發言,似乎也成立,但是這兩件事情一定會很多人跳出來說,這不一樣八拉八拉,國情不同八拉八拉...

所以我說台灣人民對於 !!!禁!!!這項政策,表面很反對,但是實際上已經吸到骨頭,燒成灰,打成泥一樣還是存在!
2009-11-17 @ 16:47
迴響 from: 以教育之名禁FB是世界潮流 [訪問者]
1.以教育之名禁FB是世界潮流
2.只是學校網路禁又不是全國禁朱大的類比並不恰當,不然瑞士加拿大也=敘利亞=埃及=伊朗=中國=警察國家??

Canton school may ban Facebook: http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20090918/NEWS05/309189931

Facebook in school raises concerns:http://www.wiscnews.com/bdc/news/467225

N.B. bans Facebook during school hours:http://www.cbc.ca/canada/new-brunswick/story/2008/11/21/nb-facebook-ban.html

Westford continues ban on Facebook in schools: http://www.waghostwriter.com/2009/10/16/westford-continues-ban-on-facebook-in-schools/comment-page-1/

Langley schools ban Facebook: http://www.canada.com/theprovince/story.html?id=dd40288b-50b0-4f9f-82d4-738490951622&k=94796


School Board Bans Facebook, Twitter For Teachers:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/district-299/2009/08/school-board-bans-facebook-twitter-for-teachers.html

Facebook北美學校不受歡迎 專家吁合理善用:http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:w-uVjsL3-vQJ:www.ntdtv.com/xtr/b5/2007/08/30/a63818.html+%E5%AD%B8%E6%A0%A1,facebook&cd=23&hl=zh-TW&ct=clnk&gl=tw

New Mexico bans Facebook: http://badgerherald.com/news/2005/10/17/new_mexico_bans_face.php

瑞士公務員 上班禁用Facebook: http://www.udn.com/2009/9/11/NEWS/WORLD/WOR4/5129540.shtml

Lucifer:你都找了這麼多資料,不如你乾脆寫一篇文章我幫你登出來,然後我們再來公開發文討論這件事情,兩邊論點並呈不是更好。而且結果你又留不能用的信箱,導致我想回信也不行,囧。
2009-11-17 @ 23:01
迴響 from: ral [訪問者]
我也不贊成禁FB,就像我不贊成禁美國牛肉一樣 :P
2009-11-18 @ 15:49
迴響 from: kissumir [訪問者]
在沒有開心農場前,農田裡的菜就沒被偷過嗎?
我覺得是小題大作了。

玩開心農場一開始,菜被偷我的心情超不爽,想說我沒去偷你家的菜是偷個屁喔!
所以開始去偷別人家的菜 XD 結果自己家的菜被偷得更兇,此時了解冤冤相報何時了的道理(嘖嘖,一個遊戲也可以瞭解這道理,也算是個收獲)。

說到底,開心農場不過是個遊戲而已,如果我都開始喜歡偷別人家的菜,那別人的心態不就跟自己一樣了嗎?因此偷完菜之後,我種更多的菜給別人偷 = = 互相互相。

偷菜也只不過是滿足那些現實中法令規定不能做的事情而已。這禁那禁,禁了還是會玩啊,不如規劃時間讓人可以自由的遊戲來的好。

如果只是一味禁止,只會讓人用手段達到可以玩遊戲的目的。孩子要怎麼樣培養自制力不是用禁止的方法,而是父母的教育,把教育推給學校,學校受到壓力後規定東規定西,造成反效果後,又怪學校沒好好把關。

互踢皮球,無論是誰都會的技能。

好像都很無關的言論 = =
我想說的是,遊戲可以達到正面的目的,只是太過放縱的話,無論什麼樣的活動都是有壞處的。
2009-11-19 @ 16:24
迴響 from: GUCCI [訪問者]
越有影響力的東西禁止越沒有效果!!老子:天下神器,不可為也.為者敗之,執者失之. 總之阿~把網路這樣的東西做限制基本上不是失民心,就是政策注定失敗.乾有差??都知道結果了,根本無須討論吧??
2009-11-19 @ 17:50
迴響 from: 無名火 [訪問者]
*----
我們國家的政府真有趣,有時間關注facebook不如想想台灣小孩的未來啊!
2009-11-20 @ 23:20
迴響 from: 愛德 [訪問者]
*****
台灣的教育已經壞掉很久了...
台灣媒體的腦也壞掉很久了...
政府的思考能力壞掉很久了...
2009-11-22 @ 18:08
迴響 from: 御御子 [訪問者] · http://sisituan.com
无奈啊……
中国人的政府到底是哪点出了问题
大陆这边也是,台湾那边也是
革命来革命去到最后都走一个老路子

老实说大陆这边共匪的信息管制已经颇有当年国军制造白色恐怖的架势了,怒掀桌
2009-11-25 @ 02:46
迴響 from: 好市長又來了 [訪問者]
防範動新聞入校園 郝龍斌:北市中小學停止訂閱蘋果日報
「動新聞」引爭議 公民團體赴壹傳媒抗議
=> 好市長又來了,偶們小學生一年級連ㄅㄆㄇ都才剛開始學,一般報紙根本看不懂,平常就只能看水果報的圖片了解時事,現在好了,連水果報也沒得看了,泥們大人真是管很大ㄝ.
2009-11-26 @ 23:20
迴響 from: 臉書一級棒 [訪問者]
社群玩過頭Facebook揪眾打紅髮人: http://iservice.libertytimes.com.tw/liveNews/news.php?no=299298&type=%E5%9C%8B%E9%9A%9B
在Facebook性誘男學生 熟女教師遭判刑: http://www.nownews.com/2009/11/26/334-2538234.htm
Facebook網民成立自殺群組 近200人相約聖誕節前集體自殺: http://news.cnyes.com/dspnewsS.asp?fi=%5CNEWSBASE%5C20091126%5CWEB606
facebook遊戲 輸入電話換來帳單: http://mag.udn.com/mag/digital/storypage.jsp?f_MAIN_ID=322&f_SUB_ID=4333&f_ART_ID=222582
裸照全都露! Facebook心理測驗藏春色: http://www.nownews.com/2009/11/21/327-2536045.htm

(Lucifer:這些超級可怕的事情東西都發生在能夠讓你貼文章的網路上,也禁掉網路和我的部落格吧。
2009-11-26 @ 23:22
迴響 from: 臉書一級棒 [訪問者]
朱大您言重了,我支持在中小學校禁上FB,但支持孩子在家裡上.畢竟孩子還小,做家長的我們還是要多留意,等你兒子長大以後你就知道做父母的難了.
2009-11-27 @ 11:00
迴響 from: toray [訪問者]
父母的難為就是「小孩就是比我兩老笨,我要保護她/他」

事實上是,被保護的好好,簡直等於是溫室裡長大的小孩

才是真正一點判斷能力都不會有,永遠不會長大的小孩。

他/她從來不犯錯,他從來沒有和人討論過對錯,

他/她從來不需要面對對錯判斷的現場,這叫哪門子的保護小孩啊。

父母的為難其實表面上是「不知道怎麼教小孩。」
但是實際上問題是,也不是每一個父母自己就有多聰明,而不敢承認自己也不知到答案,所以就只好拿起另外一邊的家長威權來面對小孩的質疑。這種思考結構基本上就是促成家暴的思考邏輯。因為當威權不是用說的可以實踐,就是拿身體上的「實力差距」當成權威有效的基礎。

議題都是表面,電玩、漫畫、動漫、網路

實際上運作的問題都是這個家庭權威思考結構!

在這種情況底下,這句話可就真噁心

「我都是為你/妳好啊!」




2009-11-29 @ 15:53
迴響 from: toray [訪問者]
facebooK議題問題不在於學校上或回家上,

這不是地點問題,因為看到的網站是同一個。

上facebook的感覺和資訊的可流通性是一樣的

怎麼兩個行為就會地點,有不同評價!


而進一步要請問的是,「偷竊」成罪的理由

應該是,我東西在「計畫之外」被偷了,我沒有辦法繼續使用吧。

我的腳踏車在我計畫之外被偷了,我沒有辦法繼續使用,所以我覺得很糟糕!

但是facebook上,偷菜本來就是遊戲規則當中地一環。被偷的人根本不意外。而被偷的人也不是無力反抗,他有許多的反盜措施可以採取。

為什麼這麼時候不強調一下facebook上可以促進小朋友「想像」偷竊者的心境,進而想出怎麼反制偷竊呢?這可以是完全不同的思考。


還有,偷電腦上的資料,

不是偷竊,而是妨礙電腦使用。

大人們和媒體為什麼一直散佈錯誤訊息。

對於法律來說,罪名不對,就是不對。

請問散佈這些消息的有道人士們,自己又多用功念法律呢?







2009-11-29 @ 16:06
迴響 from: 老王 [訪問者]
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Lucifer:這位來自 114.37.91.74 的傢伙,就跟前面那位老陳同一個人嘛!你大腦就只留得出這種文章嗎?
2009-12-11 @ 23:30
迴響 from: Hogo [訪問者]
*****
難道小朋友,真的以為世界上有聖誕老人嗎?那麻煩可就大了!

....囧rz 到底哪裡麻煩大了?

我知道了!聖誕老人從別人家的煙囪入侵住宅!是一種犯罪的行為!會帶給小朋友不好的示範!罪大惡極啊!我們應該從現在開始嚴禁聖誕老人!
2009-12-30 @ 00:50
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