朱恐龍
朱恐龍

人民有低俗的權利,政府有查禁違法的責任,但請把品味低下留給公民社會來懲罰!(動新聞事件的評論啦) (103870 views)
     

雨狗的這篇文章讓我印象很深刻。

http://raindog.pixnet.net/blog/post/25901339

七個月以前,有一篇我的訪談刊登在在2009年4月20號的聯合晚報上:

爆乳就能賣?侮辱遊戲玩家
最近打開電視機,撲天蓋地的線上遊戲廣告「爆乳」襲來、媒體爭相報導、女藝人爆紅,接著NCC介入、市政府要求業者撤廣告。看在線上遊戲玩家眼裡,只覺得業者和政府都「有夠白癡」。作為遊戲玩家,我們只在乎遊戲「好不好玩」,訴求低俗的線上遊戲廣告,根本無法吸引玩家,會被市場自然淘汰。電玩業者若以為「爆乳就能賣」,不僅侮辱了電玩族群,產品行銷也不會成功。而「政府把人民當白癡」介入,「NCC查禁」反而為一連串類似廣告的推波助瀾。
就拿「殺online」的「瑤瑤」來講,對電玩族群而言,瑤瑤根本不新鮮,2年前,她就在電玩節目擔任主持人。節目內容雖是介紹電玩,但畫面全聚焦在她晃動的胸部上。當「殺很大」廣告出現時,我只覺得廣告「好笑」、「白癡」,看完根本不瞭解遊戲本身,實在難以想像後續的發展。

遊戲本身好不好玩才是重點
「就行銷角度而言,業者的廣告徹底失敗」。最近幾個類似的廣告操作,線上遊戲公司捧紅了藝人,但是商品卻沒熱銷。這從線上遊戲網路流量排名可以發現,以瑤瑤代言的線上遊戲為例,曾在廣告發酵的3月份達到流量高峰,隨即一路下滑。遊戲產品替代性很高,遊戲本身「好不好玩」才是重點,代言人根本不重要。不少電玩族群都是領零用錢的學生,花錢買產品非常挑剔。業者不要迷信媒體曝光,不是一個胸部很大的代言人,就能讓玩家消費。

線上遊戲的「到達率」、「黏著度」是成功與否的指標,「殺online」等一系列行銷手法類似的遊戲,幾乎都不合格。換句話說,政府、媒體管理機構以為「影響力驚人,有害青少年身心」的遊戲,根本不受玩家青睞。我看待這些廣告時只覺得業者「白癡」、「惡搞」,根本沒有人認真看待。

NCC查禁反而成了熱門賣點
因此,NCC的介入就顯得極其荒謬。我必須提醒政府官員,「人民有低俗的權利」,政府管制會製造出寒蟬效應,對言論自由是很大的傷害。低俗自然會被市場淘汰,但「NCC查禁」反而成為YouTube上最熱門的賣點,促成後來一系列爆乳廣告,讓這些廣告受到超出應有的關注,業者則沈迷在粗糙的「巨乳」廣告迷思中。此外,這些廣告單純以巨乳女體為訴求,就以為能吸引玩家,業者的思維實在侮辱了線上遊戲族群。

說老實話,壹傳媒本來從來也不是什麼高尚教忠教孝的媒體。

相關的新聞、出版、表現方式如果違法,儘管應該起訴、逮捕,用公權力加以處置。

但你不能因為「社會上有人覺得它低俗下流,而就用法律沒有明文規定的方法來禁止它。」

但容我引述美國憲法保障言論自由的著名案例的例子,「Hustler Magazine v. Falwell」中美國最高法院的一段論述:

縱使社會認為這言論令人不快,也不足以構成壓制言論自由的理由。

The fact that society may find speech offensive is not a sufficient reason for suppressing it.

( Read more: Hustler Magazine Inc. v. Falwell http://law.jrank.org/pages/12739/Hustler-Magazine-Inc-v-Falwell.html#ixzz0XykkXdKu

臺北市政府所轄各級公(私)立學校即日起停止訂閱蘋果日報,並將勸導師生不要把報紙帶入校園傳閱,同時將校園內所有的電腦封鎖「動新聞」網站IP,避免讓學生接觸到有礙身心發展的畫面。此外,市立圖書館亦把蘋果日報改為「閉架」方式陳列,民眾需出示身份證件,年滿18歲方得借閱。 教育局長康宗虎表示,對於校園的限制將以勸導為主,不會因此處分學生,目前會採取積極輔導與消極勸導方式同時並進,除勸導學生勿攜帶蘋果日報之外,並將輔導學生閱讀正當的書報雜誌。

因為以剝奪言論尺度的大惡換取乾淨新聞的小利就跟與惡魔交易一樣,不但從來不值得,而且是會上癮的。

台北市政府在動新聞符合分級規範,蘋果日報除去QR CODE之後,要多久的時間才會恢復它們連線?會花多大的力氣宣導「從此以後可以攜帶蘋果日報進校園?」

誰又能決定什麼書報雜誌是正當的,該看的,能夠攜帶進校園的?

媒體低俗,就該用公民權力拒看,教育你的子女分辨善惡的能力!如果把所有權柄都交給政府判斷正當與不正當,禁絕與不禁絕,那麼還要多久,海賊王會因為宣導海賊的義氣與勇敢而被視作不正當的書報雜誌?會因為在九蛇島暴露太多的女體而被視作有礙青少年身心發展的作品?

還要多久,我的部落格會因為提倡反對專家權威意見和張貼清涼圖片,而變成TANET不能夠連結的網站?

還要多久,家長們會開始抗議Yahoo和Google的搜尋引擎把各種不當資訊帶到他們的子女面前,因此罪大惡極,不能夠使用這些搜尋引擎?



還要多久,台灣的政府會開始要求安裝台灣版的綠壩來避免人民接觸有害資訊?

還要多久,我們看到綠壩娘會笑,但會笑的很辛酸,笑得很心虛?

2006年七月十一日,美國青少年圖書館服務協會執行長Beth Yoke,在眾議院的通信與網路委員會前為了反對「消除線上侵害者法案」的看法作證時(DOPA,禁止未成年者在成年人監視之外的時間使用學校及圖書館的網路上社群網站或聊天室),表達了美國圖書館協會和美國青少年圖書館服務協會的共同立場:「館員們相信,而且從過去的經驗得知,對青少年和家長,施予安全使用網路的教育,才是最好保護青少年的方式。我們相信,DOPA所要求的過度擴張的科技監控規範,對於快速演變的科技時代並不適用。不僅如此,這類的科技監控,通常會無意間阻擋有益的網站。從根本來看,我們相信,這類的立法將會導致阻擋許多有益的互動網站及應用程式,並且導致數位落差的產生。」

下面是一個寫了七篇文章就沒有再寫的大陸網友的部落格。

2009年3月4號他寫的文章有一個段落讓現在的我們感到無比熟悉:

一个官员说,这次的反低俗运动是为了孩子。可是为什么采取的不是分级的方式呢?如果有些东西太火爆而不能让孩子看,那就难道也不能让成人看么?假孩子之名义损害成人的利益,这如果不是借口,那就是“少数人的暴政”。

豆瓣被整顿了,牛博网也被整顿了。当牛博网的创始人还是新东方名嘴的时候,他曾在课堂上发问过:人民有没有低俗的权利?

学者可以反低俗,教授可以反低俗,每个人也都可以反低俗。因为这仅仅是个人出于价值观的判断。但是政府不行。谁给了“你”假公众名义宣布谁低俗谁又不低俗的权利?“你”哪里来的权为原本可以多元的价值观设一个统一的是非标准?

是的,學者可以反低俗,教授可以反低俗,公民團體可以反低俗,每個人也都可以反低俗,因為這是個人價值觀的判斷。

但是政府不行!

因為誰給了「你」假公眾名義宣布誰低俗,誰又不低俗的權力?

誰給了「你」把多元價值觀改成一個統一是非標準的權力?

我他媽明天五點半要起床,九點要在台中教育大學演講,今天還要熬夜寫這一篇文章,不是因為我選擇和低俗站在同一邊,而是因為我選擇相信人民應該有自己分辨低俗與否,自己決定低俗與否的自由與尊嚴!而不是由任何一個公僕和政府機關主觀判斷低俗與否,我們沒有賦予你這個權力!

Lucifer

至於真相是什麼?

真相是,動新聞的人跟我說,今天增加了大量的註冊使用者和流量。

真相是,我這篇Plurk所寫的內容:

媽的,本來動新聞要準備收費就會自然掛點完蛋了,黎智英就會變成創意突出,但無法獲利的商業失敗者,結果現在被這些公僕一搞,黎智英反而變成言論自由受到迫害的受害者.....orz.... 人生真無奈。

真相就是為了這種商業競爭而犧牲了言論自由,替你所不贊同的作法大打廣告,真是他媽的愚蠢!

但就算因為你愚蠢,我還是得要冒著被更多人討厭的危險,而挺身站出來罵你,因為老子就是這種人!

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迴響(1649)

迴響 from: 路過 [訪問者]
哇 好前面
2009-11-26 @ 23:35
迴響 from: 熊 [訪問者]
9點中教大演講?
無緣了...
朱大保重身體!
2009-11-26 @ 23:43
迴響 from: 搶前三 [訪問者]
唔 新文章!!

留言先 再細看
2009-11-26 @ 23:44
迴響 from: Adrian Yeh [訪問者]
***--
該禁得不禁,不該禁的猛禁...
2009-11-26 @ 23:44
迴響 from: Presario [訪問者]
*****
媽,我在這邊啦~~

政府管治人民低俗的權利,也應該要管管政治人物愛粉味的行為,堂堂人民代表怎麼可以吃飯還要美女陪,應該要請筋肉人來陪啊,孫仲瑜這種D奶熟女陪吃飯有礙設會善良風俗。 XD
2009-11-26 @ 23:47
迴響 from: 光頭 [訪問者]
前十 = = 先留在看
2009-11-27 @ 00:03
迴響 from: 臭阿宅 [訪問者]
說得好!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2009-11-27 @ 00:04
迴響 from: conlich [訪問者]
*****
今天下樓抽菸時,看到公司門口停了很多輛SNG車,然後一堆人拿著標語在那喊著不靠近就聽不清楚的口號,條伯像徵性地停了幾個人在蘋果樓下廣場前,另外幾位看起來較資深的條伯在路口左看看,右看看,那堆拿著標語的人停留了不知道有沒有一小時後就離開了,快中午時我站在路口想著..."這樣子是在打廣告嗎??他們老板搞不好還很歡迎你們來打廣告...".
題外話:同事說附近的停車收費員看到條伯的警車也停在停車格裡,很自然地就上前抄了車號,印出停車繳費單後就夾了上去.這時條伯的動作似乎是在考慮要不要走向收費員...
我回說:他如果走上前是跟收費員說"我們在執行公務,不要開",那他應該就是下一個被SNG報導的對象. XD

P.S:我所服務的公司就在蘋果對面,常常可以看到很多有趣的畫面,另外,由於三立也在附近,常常可以一邊吃早餐一邊看戲組在趕戲.
2009-11-27 @ 00:05
迴響 from: septemli [訪問者]
*****
前十?朱大明天中教大加油耶
2009-11-27 @ 00:10
迴響 from: 糸色 代 [訪問者]
這情況發展,讓我想起圖書館戰爭。
2009-11-27 @ 00:16
迴響 from: 綜合水果汁武士 [訪問者]
 
預言:

  這篇若會戰起來大概會往"什麼是無限上綱什麼不是"之類的東東發展起來吧。

  沒意見。

2009-11-27 @ 00:20
迴響 from: 好刺激阿!! [訪問者]
你有綠壩,
我有無界.
會不會好弟弟跟黎胖都說好了,
我只是憶測一下阿!!!!
2009-11-27 @ 00:38
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/baabuu
*****
***
閱畢~~~

====
誰在一壘阿!
2009-11-27 @ 00:56
迴響 from: 朱厚宅 [訪問者]
*****
這很明顯是強化統治的手段

最近2邊都在這樣玩,顯示出領導階層對自己沒有信心
2009-11-27 @ 01:04
迴響 from: CCC [訪問者] Email
如果人民覺得政府很低俗 政府會把自己查禁嗎?
2009-11-27 @ 01:26
迴響 from: 宅大叔 [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/bearcr
這社會充斥太多政治正確的事情....

只會服從多數但不會尊重少數的社會...

甚至有的時候服從的根本就是少數
2009-11-27 @ 01:40
迴響 from: yojimbo [訪問者]
你罰五十萬

他倒賺一百萬

恩嘻嘻讓痔鶯笑嘻嘻
2009-11-27 @ 03:34
迴響 from: 剝雞 [訪問者]
沒錯,如果什麼都打馬賽克就能解決問題,那也太鴕鳥心態了
2009-11-27 @ 05:37
迴響 from: 小印度 [訪問者] · http://www.hmtcosmetic.com
*****
大推~~郝小子在電視上所講的跟對岸那些死老共沒有差別,腦袋裏面生瘡了,非常令人火大,而且朱大講的也沒錯,就是因為政府亂搞,所以我也上去支持了動新聞,因為要不要看它是我們的言論自由的權利~~
2009-11-27 @ 06:38
迴響 from: odachang [訪問者] · http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/ch-chang
****-
支持+1
2009-11-27 @ 08:36
迴響 from: 阿達 [訪問者] · http://kocpc.pixnet.net/blog
*****
我也支持
2009-11-27 @ 08:44
迴響 from: 小學老師 [訪問者]
好奇可以殺死一隻貓!
最好的抵制方法就是全民拒看!
2009-11-27 @ 08:54
迴響 from: 小學老師 [訪問者]
朱大加油!
我也是中教大畢業的!
可惜畢業了!不然就會去聽您演講!
要怎樣才能邀請您來演講呢?
2009-11-27 @ 08:56
迴響 from: 8503 [訪問者] Email
*****
當初看到政府立法禁動新聞時是贊成的,
因為我不喜歡壹周刊系列的聳動內容。

但當「言論自由」與「內容低俗」放在天平上一比,我發現我膚淺了。政府不應該整肅價值觀,因為民主是建立在這句話上面的:我反對你的每一字句,但誓死捍衛你說話的權利!
2009-11-27 @ 09:13
迴響 from: 藍綠蜘蛛人 [訪問者]
乾脆戒嚴算了....
2009-11-27 @ 09:25
迴響 from: Rex [訪問者]
圖書館戰爭+1!~

人民有低俗的權利!
讓我們為捍衛低俗而群起奮起吧lol

來制定人民低俗基本四法吧(爆)
2009-11-27 @ 09:28
迴響 from: JP [訪問者]
"我反對你的每一字句,但誓死捍衛你說話的權利"
簡潔有力,支持+1
政府官員們弄錯了"施政"的重點了吧....
(謎之音~~~他們有認真在"施政"嗎......)
2009-11-27 @ 09:29
迴響 from: ptt鄉民 [訪問者]

推 (終於可以讓我推到文了 好爽好爽)

2009-11-27 @ 09:40
迴響 from: cc [訪問者]
台灣離中共不遠了
2009-11-27 @ 09:42
迴響 from: CC [訪問者]
這很像軍閥才會做的事情
2009-11-27 @ 09:44
迴響 from: 貢丸 [訪問者] Email
郝龍b宣佈:
因為馬冏每次出現,就會帶來低俗的選舉暴力與藍綠對抗~
並且常常多次於公開場合只穿紅色小短褲~
實在俗不可耐..
因此今日起..將馬冏限制關閉於台北低俗文物館文物櫃內..
必須出示國民黨證與腦殘研究會同意文件才可以接見..
2009-11-27 @ 09:46
迴響 from: 一止女未 [訪問者]
***--
「人民有低俗的權利」!!!???
沒錯啊~
台灣人是代代愈來愈低俗了呀~

看看寫些什麼…
看看po些什麼…
看看載些什麼…
看看想些什麼…

我們若有30%的低俗,
下一代就會有倍數成長的低俗!

怪這環境、怪言論、怪媒體…
不如從自身做起吧~

真那麼清高嗎? 我們自己低俗不低俗呢???

這已經是一個缺乏思考的年代了…
2009-11-27 @ 09:53
迴響 from: 言論自由並不是無限上綱的 [訪問者]
言論自由並不是無限上綱的.例如美國就禁止依現時社區標準("ontemporary community standards")被認定為是猥褻的言論內容.其實現在問題在於現在10歲以下的小孩透過網路接觸資訊及與他人互動的情形絕對是史上最爆炸性的多樣化,網路時代的言論傳播媒介太多,家長無法24小時都在注意小孩接觸了那些東東,並協助他們正確的解讀,很多家長對這種情況都感到憂慮.因此在FB最早風行的美國,眾院已經在2006年通過禁止沒有家長陪同的未成年人在公立學校及圖書館瀏覽特定網站的Deleting Online Predators Act,目前參議院也在討論是否通過或修正該法案.
Deleting Online Predators Act of 2006: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deleting_Online_Predators_Act_of_2006
Bill Could Ban Facebook, MySpace At Libraries: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3703771

(Lucifer:2006的這個法律憲法爭議都還沒有跑完呢。1998年推出的這個兒童網路保護法案在2009年1月21號早就被美國高等法院判為違憲了。 The Child Online Protection Act[1] (COPA)[2] was a law in the United States of America, passed in 1998 with the declared purpose of restricting access by minors to any material defined as harmful to such minors on the Internet. The United States federal courts have ruled that the law violates the constitutional protection of free speech, and therefore have blocked it from taking effect. )
2009-11-27 @ 10:41
迴響 from: PeterPan [訪問者] · http://cypan.blogspot.com
****-
我贊成內容分級,而非「查禁」。
成人該有能力判斷如何消化自己閱聽內容的能力。

不過分級不好做...
2009-11-27 @ 10:57
迴響 from: 風吹艾斯 [訪問者]
怎麼這整件事都讓我不斷的想到
"情色風暴1997"這部電影

"我反對你的每一字句,但誓死捍衛你說話的權利"
支持+1

如果違法就辦,如果只是低俗而禁止,
以後搞不好朱大沒辦法貼"自己"的照片了!

下手前,仔細多想想自己說話的權利!
2009-11-27 @ 11:00
迴響 from: 岡田追隨者 [訪問者]
打倒惡魔的不見得是勇者,
被打倒的也不一定是惡魔。

沒了紙張
還有電視
沒了電視
還有網路
沒了網路

我們還有隔壁浴室(純粹亂寫)
低俗的人永遠會找到出路

政府與其這樣無聊查禁
還不如支持朱大翻免費的課程
讓大家有更好的選擇
2009-11-27 @ 11:17
迴響 from: Max [訪問者]
""海賊王會因為宣導海賊的義氣與勇敢而被視作不正當的書報雜誌?""

當然啊~~不然幹麼改叫"航海王"?
2009-11-27 @ 11:22
迴響 from: 被閻羅王指派挖第20層地獄的壞人 [訪問者]
****-
這的確是事實, 人要不要低俗是自己選的,
就算大環境低俗, 還是可以選擇不低俗.

只是製造低俗大環境的人往往以為自己很清高,更可惡的是這些自以為清高的人會指著和自己一樣低俗的人說..請你不要低俗
2009-11-27 @ 11:33
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
***--
時勢分析:
1.吳育昇偷吃被臺傳媒踢爆!
2.影響國民黨形象&選情
3.本土傳體長期不敵臺傳媒
4.本土媒傳作球給好北七出手
5.國民黨與本土傳媒結合圍攻臺傳媒
6.報老鼠冤~

結論: 你們不會學挺美狂牛肉者, 不吃(看)就好了啊! 禁個屁!
2009-11-27 @ 11:36
迴響 from: 與其空談言論自由,不如想想我們每天都做了些什麼 [訪問者] Email
你會違規右轉嗎
你走邊線嗎
你重覆使用塑膠袋嗎
你去小吃攤外帶時會使用自備的餐盒嗎
你不使用免洗筷嗎
你常使用大眾運輸工具嗎
你定期資助弱勢嗎
...
與其空談言論自由,不如從提升自我的品德做起,不然再多的言論自由也只是促成更多的下流而已.

(Lucifer:如果以上都沒做到就沒有言論自由,那你住的地方比地獄還要悲慘。又或者是你只能看大愛台.....
2009-11-27 @ 11:37
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
***--
還我漂亮拳))))
第二彈!

還我低俗拳(權)!@
2009-11-27 @ 11:41
迴響 from: Nick [訪問者]
朋友曆元年:

動新聞,絕交
李家冋,絕交
民視,絕交
自由時報,絕交
CCTV→朋友電視台

朋友!朋友!朋友!朋友!
2009-11-27 @ 13:26
迴響 from: 蘿蔔特 周 [訪問者] Email
*****
低俗的人只能用批評別人更低俗
才能掩飾自己的不安
"因為誰給了「你」假公眾名義宣布誰低俗,誰又不低俗的權力?

誰給了「你」把多元價值觀改成一個統一是非標準的權力?"
大推這2句

2009-11-27 @ 13:31
迴響 from: Ann [訪問者]
雖然沒有在觀賞動新聞
但是要捍衛言論自由!!
2009-11-27 @ 13:41
迴響 from: 拆組達人 [訪問者] · http://blog.iegoffice.com/
罵的好!NCC該管不該管都分不清!啥時台灣開始在走回頭路!露個溝就要馬賽克!有這麼嚴重嗎?= ="
那街上敢表現自我的女生是不是都要抓去關!?
我們啥時變成那回教集權國家?
乾脆女生連臉也比照遮起來,大門不出二門不邁算了!
2009-11-27 @ 13:43
迴響 from: nights [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/nights
唉呀~又不是現在才知道政府與那些特定團體這樣蠻幹霸道~(攤手)~總之把選票晾在手上~看這些檯面上的蠢蛋想不想要囉~(把人名記在牆壁上)
2009-11-27 @ 14:06
迴響 from: 強人鐵忠(積奇) [訪問者]
是啊~我不談言論自由與否
也不管低俗與否
但是請把選擇的權利還給我
裸露的刊物或是有點色色的東西
你可以分級讓我拿到
但是不能禁止我拿到它的權利
我是成人 我想看動新聞 我想看示意圖
這應該是我的權利吧?
請把它還給我 政府官員們!
2009-11-27 @ 14:13
迴響 from: 看過的人 [訪問者]
基本上動新聞剛出來的時候.真的很血腥暴力.現在的動新聞已經直接跳過暴力直接噴血的片段.基本上我是不贊成青少年看到這些動畫因為真的不適合.但是北市禁報我只能說出發點是好的.但是所及範圍因個人觀點我不想多說什麼.
2009-11-27 @ 14:23
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
相關的新聞、出版、表現方式如果違法,儘管應該起訴、逮捕,用公權力加以處置。

但你不能因為「社會上有人覺得它低俗下流,而就用法律沒有明文規定的方法來禁止它。」
─────────────────────────
朱大您這段不盡正確

(一)依「兒童及少年福利法」第27條
I.出版品、電腦軟體、電腦網路應予分級;其他有害兒童及少年身心健康之物品經目的事業主管機關認定應予分級者,亦同。
II前項物品列為限制級者,禁止對兒童及少年為租售、散佈、播送或公然陳列。

(二)依行政院新聞局公佈之「電腦網路內容分級處理辦法」第4條
電腦網路內容,有下列情形之一,有害兒童及少年身心發展者,列為限制級,未滿十八歲者不得瀏覽。
一、過當描述賭博、吸毒、販毒、搶劫、竊盜、綁架、殺人或其他犯罪行為者。
二、過當描述自殺過程者。
三、有恐怖、血腥、殘暴、變態等情節且表現方式強烈,一般成年人尚可接受者。
四、以動作、影像、語言、文字、對白、聲音、圖畫、攝影或其他形式描繪性行為、淫穢情節或裸露人體性器官,尚不致引起一般成年人羞恥或厭惡感者。

(三)違反者,依「兒童及少年福利法」第30條第12款
任何人對於兒童及少年不得有下列行為:
十二、違反媒體分級辦法,對兒童及少年提供或播送有害其身心發展之出版品、圖畫、錄影帶、影片、光碟、電子訊號、網際網路或其他物品。

(四)又違反者,依同法第58條第2項:
II.違反第三十條第十二款規定者,處新臺幣十萬元以上五十萬元以下罰鍰,
並得勒令停業一個月以上一年以下。
─────────────────────
今台北市政府對動新聞事件所做出之裁罰,是有法源依據的。
─────────────────────
至於言論自由之限制應以何為標準,司法院大法官已於釋字623號中做出解釋:
「憲法第十一條保障人民之言論自由,乃在保障意見之自由流通,使人民有取得充分資訊及自我實現之機會,包括政治、學術、宗教及商業言論等,並依其性質而有不同之保護範疇及限制之準則。商業言論所提供之訊息,內容為真實,無誤導性,以合法交易為目的而有助於消費大眾作出經濟上之合理抉擇者,應受憲法言論自由之保障,惟憲法之保障並非絕對,立法者於符合憲法第二十三條規定意旨之範圍內,得以法律明確規定對之予以適當之限制。」

「兒童及少年之心智發展未臻成熟,與其為性交易行為,係對兒童及少年之性剝削。性剝削之經驗,往往對兒童及少年產生永久且難以平復之心理上或生理上傷害,對社會亦有深遠之負面影響。從而,保護兒童及少年免於從事任何非法之性活動,乃普世價值之基本人權(聯合國於西元一九八九年十一月二十日通過、一九九0年九月二日生效之兒童權利公約第十九條及第三十四條參照),為重大公益,國家應有採取適當管制措施之義務,以保護兒童及少年之身心健康與健全成長。」
雖然本號解釋係針對兒童及少年性交易防制條例。但是其中所提到的以兒童之保護為最優先之原則,是值得肯定的。
────────────────────
至於朱大您說的
「媒體低俗,就該用公民權力拒看,教育你的子女分辨善惡的能力!」

期待人民自覺是好事,但只要看看現在哪家報紙、雜誌賣的最好就知道結果了。

────────────────────
朱大您說:
「因為誰給了「你」假公眾名義宣佈誰低俗,誰又不低俗的權力?
誰給了「你」把多元價值觀改成一個統一是非標準的權力?」

恩...好像是我們人民選出來的立法委員制定的法律,國家機關再依法行政。
──────────────
會不會將來某日有報紙頭條這樣寫著:「性侵後冷血毀屍。嫌犯:看動新聞學的。」

Lucifer:兒少法造成的出版界爭議你要不要去查一下2004年的系列新聞?什麼叫有害身心發展哩?報導市長負面消息讓孩童不相信政府是不是有害新聞?
2009-11-27 @ 14:42
迴響 from: 朱厚宅 [訪問者]
*****
目前有看電視學的

看18禁小說漫畫學的

上網學的

學校教的

全部禁了吧

嫌犯說話能信嗎?

另外據非凡新聞台報導,各主管機關的規定與法條都不是很適用耶

一家管到一點要東拼西湊才能開罰,要是打起官司法官判決無罪也不稀奇
2009-11-27 @ 14:56
迴響 from: 無言 [訪問者]
台灣的皮克司,可能就這樣消失了

讓動新聞發展下去,人體的動作,一定會越作越自然,把final fantasy的電影版作掉都有可能

假道學有啥用,萎君子更是可怕

看看那個吳慾牲,才幾天而已,又是滿口仁義道德了

每份報紙的分類廣告有多少色情廣告的電話?
不會每份報紙的禁一禁?
2009-11-27 @ 15:22
迴響 from: vss [訪問者]
***--
台灣這十年來我們看到了非常可怕的發展

彷彿黑暗時期(守獵魔女)一般

無數的醜事都在((大義))的旗幟下進行

為了保護台灣就可以攻擊客人嗎?

謂的防止(道德)低下就要禁止公仔.漫畫.電視嗎

我們這個時代變了.我們的道德觀來自漫畫.小說.

我從中學習愛恨情仇 悲歡喜樂

學校只教我怎摸考試 媒體只教我為了利益不擇手段

其實是不被主流認同的東西也不見得沒有學習的價值


2009-11-27 @ 15:39
迴響 from: Apocalypse [訪問者]
新聞的內容如果過度血腥色情且未分類自然有違反法律的疑慮,政府被詬病的應該是只會處罰業者但不協助內容分級以及杜絕不該接受的訊息被某年齡層接收到.但是若政府介入訊息掌控卻也有引起干涉言論自由的質疑;最好的辦法是人民自我管理,但是台灣的人民有能力自我管理是很大的疑問?先別談是否有能力分辨訊息適當與否,台灣的父母對其子女夠關心嗎?換個角度看,政府這次的舉動引起大眾關注未嘗不好.稍有知覺的台灣業者與父母也許會想到:糟了,如果做不到自我管理,就要被強迫限制自己所能接收的訊息了;可歎的是我猜大部分的民眾仍舊麻痺不仁.
2009-11-27 @ 16:14
迴響 from: 標準是什麼? [訪問者]
**---
『政府查禁了之後,流量和話題反而增加』
這和該不該禁是兩碼子事。

不能全都不禁,也不能全都不管,
只是這標準怎麼拿捏。

就像美國牛、毒品全面開放一樣,
要將低俗留給人民來選擇,那美國牛和毒品怎麼不開放給人民來選擇?

壹媒體向來就是以羶腥色來賺錢,
從壹集團在香港成功,在台灣毅立不搖,就可証明
『靠人民來懲罰』是不可能的,
今天上了個動新聞,改天再來一個更寫實的,
不知何時才會觸到朱大您的底線

現在只是每個人心中的標準不同
在我標準就是
『像蘋果這種全商業考量,靠羶腥色來賺取大眾目光,表面為受害者報導發生,實質公布私密資料,給受害者二次痛擊傷害,照片不見死人不出刊,靠媒體力量壓制社會政府大眾個人的聲音,甚至曲解事實本意』
這樣的媒體早該滾出台灣了...
現在質報快要消失,第四權蕩然無存

不過每個人標準不同,壹媒體也不可能被趕出台灣
所以大家也只能在這繼續你來我去的了

Lucifer:我怎麼不知道台灣有過質報?不靠人民懲罰難道要靠上天?
2009-11-27 @ 16:24
迴響 from: 同康 [訪問者] Email
*****
各位拿法條出來鞭的網友,打過預防針嗎?

疫苗也是病毒,但是只有接觸這種弱化的病毒才能產生抵抗力,不是一味的隔離隔離就永遠不會感染。

動新聞不是絕症,充其量只是個流行感冒,重點是要培養大家的抵抗力。

敝人也認為動新聞不妥,但是這樣限制更不妥。言論自由當然不能無限上綱,但是公權力更不該無限上綱。
2009-11-27 @ 16:29
迴響 from: 同康 [訪問者] Email
補充一下,這個網頁連結的frredomofspeech好像怪怪的...(freedom?)

當然,這是你的自由~:)

Lucifer:因為我口吃~~~
2009-11-27 @ 16:32
迴響 from: 凱 [訪問者]

TO大叮噹:不是法律規定了就一定對,大法官說的清清楚楚,你法律要限制人民的自由,請將構成要件法律效果寫明白,如果用一些空泛的構成要件,把責任丟給行政機關,那就是立法者的怠惰,更容易有違憲的可能。而你說的兒少法和分級處理辦法,很恰好就是經常被拿出來批判有違憲嫌疑的法規。
2009-11-27 @ 16:46
迴響 from: 壹傳媒在台灣絕對有市場 [訪問者]
壹傳媒在台灣絕對有市場,應該鼓勵他們來台上市.
2009-11-27 @ 16:52
迴響 from: 跑步者 [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/ty880105
朱大的思維讓我跟不太上

不過!我有努力消化.思考ing
2009-11-27 @ 17:23
迴響 from: JENNY [訪問者]
這篇的標題真是一針見血!

這兩天越搞越離譜
反正壹傳媒是凱子
在不能A以前就儘量的A嗎?
這樣的政府已經讓我徹底無言了.....
2009-11-27 @ 17:48
迴響 from: JENNY [訪問者]
TO 15樓:

我現在就很想反蓋高尚的政府&低俗的媒體.....
2009-11-27 @ 17:53
迴響 from: Ling [訪問者]
媒體低俗,就該用公民權力拒看,教育你的子女分辨善惡的能力!

這句話說的好呀

媒體低俗
不就是一堆傢伙愛看?
真的只有教育才能達到效果
一昧的禁止是沒用的
2009-11-27 @ 17:58
迴響 from: JENNY [訪問者]
我也不甚喜歡動新聞的處理方法,
但重點是看不慣政府這樣隨著媒體起舞,像對過街老鼠窮追猛打的作法,吃相很難看。

塑造一個假裝乾淨的環境,並不能幫助下一代腦袋變得乾淨,只會讓他們更腦殘....

我不清高,但我不想偽善!

又:TO 37樓
海賊王當初不是因為這樣的原因而改名航海王,
據說是因為當初取名海賊王的公司,主張他們有這個名字的權利,再加上那家公司在沒有取得授權後,有一陣子繼續有出盜版,東立為了以示區別,才改名「航海王」....
2009-11-27 @ 18:09
迴響 from: pptra [訪問者]
如何熬過收費的難關, 我覺得政府的反應是黎胖預先算好的 (陳某漫畫看太多...)
不過, 當「民代」(干! 實在不想用這個詞), 學者及記者們把這類問題擲向政府時, 公務員們似乎除了訂下「一個辦法」之外, 也不會 (包括不能) 做出更多討皮痛的舉措了~ 然後就會有類似朱大這樣的正義之聲出現, 然後媒體記者們就繼續玩他左右開弓的把戲...

另話, 朱大這篇文章, 讓我想起席維斯史特龍那部《超級戰警》, 那個地底反抗軍首領連珠砲似地對史特龍說的那一串台詞以及...Be Well!!
2009-11-27 @ 18:22
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
不喜歡的東西就不要看......

教育小孩的辨別是非能力與其他能力.....是從小父母親就應該培育他們的價值觀吧?
有不想花時間陪小孩的父母親,當然就會有沒水準又沒禮貌兼沒家教的小孩!
如果連這種事都要政府出面......那台灣人民的水準真的有低落的現象......
2009-11-27 @ 18:33
迴響 from: 朱厚宅 [訪問者]
*****
老黎不夠力

要是老余遇到這樣的事早就換新聞局長囉

以他的能力完全可以捍衛整個新聞界,可惜人都是會老會死的...兒子又不爭氣...把中時搞到比聯合還差
2009-11-27 @ 18:38
迴響 from: XX [訪問者]
看電視的時候,我可以刪除不想看到的頻道,但無法刪除不想看的廣告。
(不想看就不要看,請問要轉到那一台才沒有不想看到的廣告?)

去18禁的網頁,它出現問你是否滿18歲,滿18才能點進去;想看又未滿18歲的人,會傻傻的點"我未滿18歲"嗎?註冊資料不能造假嗎?


分級制度很好,但是有用嗎?


一家不鳥政府,之後會有更多家不鳥政府。
為什麼有些要強硬,因為警告沒有用。


老實說我很討厭台北市長的,覺得他很假;但是禁止進入學校我覺得沒有錯。


這不是一個清高或低俗的問題,而是你要怎麼有效的去分級,防止它讓不該看的人看,讓該看的人看?


雖然他或許可以在別的場所看到,但在"學校"這個教育場所,你可以"確定"他看不到。



2009-11-27 @ 19:17
迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
[把之前的資料同貼一遍]


迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
== 大推 ==

迴響 from: WoW [訪問者]
唯一好處是同學們"駭客能力"會變強= =+

=====================

給朱大補充資料:

【中國觀察】中國的金盾工程!
http://sophist4ever.pixnet.net/blog/post/20865159

簡介:

  中國大陸建立的全國大型網路封鎖系統稱為「金盾工程」,目前封鎖了世界上三分之二的網站。最主要的功能除了封鎖中國境外的各式網站外,還能監控中國所有網友上網的紀錄。

  簡而言之,可以算是專制政權下的數位資訊電檢制度。「金盾工程」投入的費用極為龐大,相當於全年中國基礎小學教育的預算總額。許多西方網路科技公司為了搶食中國市場的這塊大餅,亦不惜協助中國建立這道數位長城,其中數家美國的網路科技公司更因此受到美國國會的聽證會調查。目前「金盾工程」屏蔽了全世界的三分之一網站,甚至包括台灣所有的部落格供應商。其中本部落格所在的痞客邦亦為其中之一。

  「金盾工程」除了封鎖境外的網站外,更重要的一點就是監控中國網友的網路發言。近幾年來因為在網上發表不滿中國政府的言論而遭到逮捕的網上異議人士可說是族繁不及備載。特別是對於重大突發事件的輿論控制,中國政府習慣封鎖所有的消息,並且驅逐國外記者。所有中國各級媒體均採用新華社與CCTV的通稿,不准私下進行任何報導,於是全世界的人都無法獲得突發事件的任何最新訊息,事件的詮釋權就落到中國官方的手裡。

2009-11-16 @ 05:49



迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
*****
給朱大補充資料:

利用遊戲招募間諜?
http://chinese.engadget.com/2007/10/21/britain-recruiting-spies-with-ads-embedded-in-video-games/


  在電玩遊戲世界當中下廣告,應該已經不算是啥太新鮮的事情,不過那天遊戲玩到一半,突然發現保密防諜、人人有責,請洽0800007007 的字眼出現在牆上,千萬不要急著把那面牆給打爛,因為你可能失去一份公務員的工作。

  英國的政府通訊總部(Government Communications Headquarters,GCHQ),這個在英國職司通訊、資訊系統安全的單位,最近開始在縱橫諜海4:雙面間諜(Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent)這款遊戲當中,透過網路將廣告放入遊戲裡頭,(PC、XBOX360)用以徵招有為、愛國、肯犧牲電腦狂、科技迷、思維敏捷的玩家們,來替他們做事。

  這個機關主要是截聽加密通訊,兼為政府做資安工作的(來源:英文維基百科 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Communications_Headquarters),主要工作就是加密和解密(當年有把德國的加密機破掉的輝煌成績),那麼招請電腦迷也不是甚麼怪事……

2009-11-16 @ 06:20



迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
給網友補充資料:

2009/03/07 頭條新聞: 綠壩不霸?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB2dD63EiE8&feature=fvsr

2009-11-16 @ 06:41




迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
給網友補充資料:


綠壩娘之歌★繁體中文字幕
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsw23W019SA&feature=related

河蟹你全家
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoctOtGJjVk&NR=1

初音未來 -- 河蟹你全家
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdjviz2_pPQ&feature=related

2009-11-16 @ 10:32




迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
*****
給網友補充資料:


正妹版

簡介:自動屏蔽 是我的萌點
   維持風紀 不擇手段

藍衣正妹:
河蟹你全家 Luka Luka Night Fever(歌詞)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsUUVXNlBOs&feature=related

白衣正妹:
河蟹你全家 Luka Luka Night Fever(ルカルカ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pfrPJIp7bk&feature=related

金絲貓正妹:
河蟹你全家 Luka Luka Night Fever(ルカルカ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFIoWbi4q8s&feature=related

學生妹:
ルカルカ★ナイトフィーバー (Luka Luka ✩ Night Fever)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vttv4eUfMV8&feature=related



PS:
綠壩 - 花季護航 Green Dam 使用畫面
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PKEstFPXz8&NR=1

和諧進行曲 附字幕
曲 : 聶耳(1912-1935)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-a9DMAIokUg&feature=fvw

2009-11-16 @ 10:50




迴響 from: AQWA [訪問者]
*****
給朱大/網友補充資料:

【歐巴馬昨天(16日)上海演說】

網友提問:

第一,有這麼多網路使用者的國家,有6000萬寫部落格的人,你知道防火牆的事情嗎?

(補充:指的是GFW,請查維基百科。懂得查詢IP位置的人,請在中國以外的地方查詢中國大陸各大知名的入口網站,所有IP都是從北京發出到國際上。)

第二,我們是不是應該自由的使用TWITTER?

  歐巴馬:首先讓我說,我從來沒有使用過TWITTER。我注意到一些年輕人,他們一直很忙,有各種各樣的電子器材,很笨重。但是我還是非常相信技術的作用,非常重視開放性。在資訊流通方面,我認為越是能夠自由的資訊流通,社會就變得越強,因為這樣子,世界各地的公民能讓自己的政府負責,有一個問責制度,他們自己會思考,這樣會有新的想法,鼓勵創造性。所以我一直是堅定的支持網路開放的使用,我非常支持不對內容做審查。在美國我過去談過,這是我們的一個傳統,我也認識到不同的國家有不同的傳統,但是我可以告訴各位,在美國,我們可以不受限制的使用網路,這是我們力量的來源,也是應該受到鼓勵的。

2009-11-17 @ 09:59




迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
  但是我也應該很誠實的告訴各位,作為美國總統,有的時候我還是希望資訊不是那麼自由的流通,因為這樣我就不需要聽到人們在批評我。我認為很自然的,在人處於一個權力地位的時候,就會想到,你為什麼這樣說我,你這樣說是很不負責的。

  可是真實的情況是,在美國資訊是自由的,在美國有很多人以各種各樣的事情批評我,但我還是認為,這樣才會使得我們的民主制度變得更強,使我變成一個更好的領導人,因為它迫使我聽到一些我不願意聽到的意見,也迫使我審查我正在做的事情,每天都要審查,要看我是不是真的為美國人民做我能做的最好的事情。所以我認為網路現在已經變成一個更強的工具,可以讓公民來參與。

  實際上,我這次勝選,當了總統的一個原因之一,就是我們能夠動員很多年輕人,通過網路來動員。剛開始的時候,沒有人會想到我會贏,因為我們沒有最富裕的支持者、政治上最有權利的人支持我們,可是人們通過網路看到我們競選,他們開始感到很興奮,他們就組織起來成立一些競選的活動、事件和集會,結果就產生了這些從下往上的結果,使我們獲得成功。

這不僅在政府和政治,在企業界也一樣。像Google這種公司,不到20年前,它只是兩個年齡跟你們差不多一樣的人創業,本來是科學的實驗,後來因為網路,他們能夠創造一個產業,這個產業使得全世界各地的商業發生一場革命。
  所以要不是有很自由的開放性,就像網路所提供的開放性,那Google不會存在,所以我很支持一個做法,就是不要限制網路的使用、接觸或者像 TWITTER這種資訊技術,越開放越能夠溝通,使全世界聯繫在一起。像我的兩個女兒瑪麗亞和娜塔莎,一個是11歲,一個是8歲,在她們的房間可以上網,通過網路可以達到世界任何地方,可以學到她們想學的內容,這是她們巨大的力量,她們擁有這種力量,也有利於促進相互理解。

  就像我剛才所說的,技術也有負面,恐怖分子也可以通過網路做一些以前他們做不到的事情,有一些極端分子也可以動員。當然開放性肯定要付出某種代價,這是不能否認的。可是我想好的遠遠多於壞的,所以還是保持開放是好的,我很高興網路也作為這個論壇的一部分。


來源:http://news.chinatimes.com/2007Cti/2007Cti-News/2007Cti-News-Content/0,4521,50103364+132009111600952,00.html
2009-11-17 @ 10:03




迴響 from: FBI - MAN [訪問者]
*****
給朱大/網友補充資料(最後的補完):

河蟹你全家(真人男版)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKNvaeEYGRI&feature=related

原曲(COSPLAY)
ルカルカ★ナイトフィーバー 踊ってみた
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JANrfTrHJWQ&feature=related


PS.
樓上的:舊世紀福音戰士,這名子取得好,我喜歡!(羞""")

樓上的:ILTEA的機器人工夫挺好笑的,豬大只要一提到「教育」就會跑出來說他兒子讀書讀的好。......科科科

2009-11-17 @ 10:34


2009-11-27 @ 20:07
迴響 from: 呼拉圈 [訪問者]
有興趣的人不妨看看蘋果日報頭版,該報對於本案的辯解吧.

如果不能有統一的標準,那麼這次的查進就不免有"針對性"過高之嫌,也就是人治重於法治
2009-11-27 @ 20:23
迴響 from: 迪斯努夫 [訪問者]
知道內容不好就不會看,想看的人制不住也止不住呀~
某人不是常說自由就是要懂得學會自我思考?
生活在台灣果然是永不寂寞。
2009-11-27 @ 20:47
迴響 from: 路過 [訪問者]
會不會將來某日有報紙頭條這樣寫著:「性侵後冷血毀屍。嫌犯:看動新聞學的。」

會不會將來某嫌犯大批將松鼠戴上玻璃罩,買來所有的魚隻穿上衣服,然後開心地通通丟到海裡。

因為嫌犯說:我看海綿寶寶學的。

所以海綿寶寶應該全面禁止。
2009-11-27 @ 21:26
迴響 from: 淡大麥克 [訪問者]
我們的教育真的沒有交小孩如何分辨資訊,或許你又可以開一堂課了
對囉,希望12月12或13號你可以來淡江大學上課
2009-11-27 @ 21:52
迴響 from: 禁忌與道德標準都是人創的,不是神 [訪問者]
會不會將來某日有報紙頭條這樣寫著:「性侵後冷血毀屍。嫌犯:看動新聞學的。」

會不會將來某嫌犯大批將松鼠戴上玻璃罩,買來所有的魚隻穿上衣服,然後開心地通通丟到海裡。

因為嫌犯說:我看海綿寶寶學的。

所以海綿寶寶應該全面禁止。

大讚+1


提出這個論點的人,有沒有想過,可能有幾十萬、幾百萬的人(其中不乏和該犯,有類似的學經歷生活背景家庭環境的)看過動新聞,但是只有該犯作案呢?

那,問題是出在動新聞,還是該犯?
2009-11-27 @ 21:52
迴響 from: Japes [訪問者]
*****
只有政府才有低俗的權力,
人民才被要求要高尚。
2009-11-27 @ 22:05
迴響 from: 迅猛龍(男) [訪問者] Email
最近不知道為什麼狂在新聞上看到你,還記得之前來我們學校演講時,個人認為你的是個超凡之人,最近又在新聞看到你,簡直對你產生了莫名的崇拜阿!來到你的網站簡直是感動的痛哭流涕了
2009-11-27 @ 22:20
迴響 from: 昂貴的台灣勞工 [訪問者]
*****
要查禁動新聞,請先將蠟筆小新,名偵探柯南,海綿寶寶...等卡通禁播吧...裡面同樣有許多兒童不宜的內容!
其實我覺得這次政治凌駕在言論自由之上,若你認為這是低俗的內容,你可以提出說拒看的要求,但不能用政治力強制民眾無法取得那些內容!
要禁,一堆新聞台早就被禁光了!
2009-11-27 @ 22:35
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
(Lucifer:兒少法造成的出版界爭議你要不要去查一下2004年的系列新聞?)
朱大您所指的應是某同志書庫因進口同志書刊,負責人被以刑法235條起訴並判處拘役之事件。當時該名負責人有提釋憲案,大法官並已做出釋字第617號解釋。

中華民國刑法第235條(散佈、販賣猥褻物品及製造持有罪)
I.散佈、播送或販賣猥褻之文字、圖畫、聲音、影像或其他物品,或公然陳
列,或以他法供人觀覽、聽聞者,處二年以下有期徒刑、拘役或科或併科
三萬元以下罰金。
II.意圖散佈、播送、販賣而製造、持有前項文字、圖畫、聲音、影像及其附
著物或其他物品者,亦同。
III.前二項之文字、圖畫、聲音或影像之附著物及物品,不問屬於犯人與否,
沒收之。

釋字617號解釋全文:
(http://www.judicial.gov.tw/constitutionalcourt/p03_01.asp?expno=617)

簡要言之,在本號解釋中,大法官的多數意見認為,本案的同志書刊屬於憲法言論自由保障之範圍,自應受憲法第11條之保障。但是憲法對於言論自由之保障`並非絕對。應受憲法第23條規定之限制。

中華民國憲法第23條(基本人權之限制、比例原則、法律保留原則)
「以上各條列舉之自由權利,除為防止妨礙他人自由、避免緊急危難、維持
社會秩序,或增進公共利益所必要者外,不得以法律限制之。」

換言之,言論自由若是為了防止妨礙他人自由、避免緊急危難、維持社會秩序,或增進公共利益所必要者,即可以,也必須以法律限制之。這也是法律上的「法律保留原則」。

釋字617號最後所做出的結論認為,雖然刑法第235條規定並未違反憲法第23條的比例原則。但同志書刊亦屬於憲法保障之言論自由,故只要其採取適當之安全隔絕措施(如加上封套、店主採一定措施防止未成年人觀看),還是可以流通的,並沒有完全禁絕與查禁。

其實北市府對於動新聞也是一樣,並沒有完全的查禁
只是因為其尚未依法將其內容做出分級
而在分級以前依據兒童及少年福利法第27條所授權主管機關行政院新聞局所公佈之電腦網路內容分級處理辦法,因動新聞並未依該規定對內容進行分級,故依兒童及少年福利法」第30條第12款規定,以違反同法第58條第2項,做出裁處。
在動新聞做出分級以後,其未歸於限制級之新聞,少年們還是可以看阿!
────────────
會不會將來某日有報紙頭條這樣寫著:「性侵後冷血毀屍。嫌犯:看動新聞學的。」
舉例不當,對不起,我收回。


(Lucifer:你又錯了,你現在可以去北市的學校看看能不能連上蘋果和動新聞的網站,即使非限制級也是連不到,內文有附圖喔。
2009-11-27 @ 22:42
迴響 from: 潛水太久 看到這個話題忍不住浮上來留言 [訪問者]
說實在 單純以我目小如豆的眼光來看 動新聞真的沒什麼值得被拿出來公幹的
畢竟他遊走於法律邊緣卻未曾觸法
就算有爭議性的地方在
每個人卻能選擇
是否去蘋果日報的網站收看與手機下載
說老實話
雖然我每天看蘋果日報
可是動新聞開播之後
我卻從來沒去看過
不過自從我國偉大的政治人物與發光的衛道團體
協助宣傳加上媒體配合炒作之下
(畢竟其他電視台也會怕自己家的新聞沒人看)
弄得人盡皆知

連我這懶鬼也忍不住跑去看了一下
然後我的反應是= =跟XDDDDD

除了令人爆笑的配音XDDDD
與假到不行的3D動畫之外= =
我實在看不出他到底有什麼天大的罪惡需要被公幹
或許在社會新聞上處理的有待加強
但卻沒有太多足夠拿出討論的地方
而且當衛道人士跟高風亮節的政治人物說出殘害兒童心靈的時候
真的給人不知所謂的感覺

兒童的手機你這些父母沒事給他那麼多功能的幹麻
能夠上網能夠下載是打算培養他將來要當007嗎
而且最好兒童每天都看蘋果日報會知道下載號碼

網際網路有家長設定功能吧
你是不會去設定禁止進入蘋果日報的網站嗎

本來沒什麼人知道
到現在人盡皆知
我想蘋果日報私底下要頒獎給這些政治人物跟衛道團體吧

大推這句話
縱使社會認為這言論令人不快,也不足以構成壓制言論自由的理由。

可惜台灣這些高風亮節的政治人物跟衛道團體
大概不會知道這句話的意思吧


2009-11-27 @ 22:56
迴響 from: 看得很爽 [訪問者]
哈哈,終於看到一篇讓人感到痛快的評論。台灣就是沒有民權團體,這種鳥事(政府不當管制)要是發生在美國,老早被告到火星去了。台北市政府有鳥蛋就給我連續罰,然後我們可以好好看著,是有人要被告國賠,賠到脫褲子,還是法院豬油蒙心,大家準備回到鐵幕統治之下!
2009-11-27 @ 23:02
迴響 from: Beelzebub [訪問者] · http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/news/anruse/
*****
推這句
"我反對你的每一字句,但誓死捍衛你說話的權利"

嗯~要戒嚴了喔?
綠壩娘?
2009-11-28 @ 02:32
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
何謂學壞?

就好像每次一有名人自殺事件發生,媒體上就會有很多人說擔心民眾跟著自殺.....是學習或模仿嗎?
其實不是.....真正會自殺的人就像一顆不定時炸彈,而我們永遠不知道什麼事或是什麼話會引爆他們真的去自殺。

玩開心農場偷菜,所以現實生活就會變小偷?
狗屁......或許會有少部分的人會在玩開心農場時覺得這種對別人的惡作劇很好玩,而將這種惡作劇的方式移轉到現實生活中,但他們也一定知道這是錯誤的......如果真的有那種現實跟虛擬分不清的人,我也覺得社會上有這種人對我來說不是壞消息.....他們早晚會被社會自然淘汰.....

看漫畫、動新聞會殘害小朋友身心?
是哪個父母讓自己小孩看不良讀物?我覺得你們作人家父母的一天到晚吵架或是打架(像我鄰居)給小孩的示範更不好吧?
要不要去研究一下那些連續殺人犯(我指連續的喔)....在孩童時期遭受父母親凌虐或是不正常對待的比例有多高....而因為看什麼漫畫才學會殺人的比例又有多高.......

政府官員怎麼不管管自己亂搞男女關係殘害社會大眾心靈?怎麼不管管自己的不當發言殘害社會大眾心靈?
2009-11-28 @ 06:16
*****
申請引用此文在我的BLOG中。
然後你昨天在2100的表現讓人稱快:)
--
然後在看到你的電視之前,
我也寫了篇類似的文章(如網站連結),
希望能互相參考^^。

(Lucifer:引用沒問題啦!
2009-11-28 @ 08:23
迴響 from: 五斗米折腰 [訪問者]
政府的確不該做出此舉,不懂現在的政府都喜歡做管制言論的作為,拿台北縣政府而言,所有局室是出版的文宣品都要送台北縣政府研究發展考核委員會審議通過後,才可以印製發放。如果沒有,臺北縣研考會即公文要求局室對承辦人懲處。
2009-11-28 @ 08:25
迴響 from: randylin [訪問者]
你的想法真好!我支持!
我覺得我們的社會缺少理性辯論訓練,很多議題最後往往都變成看誰大聲的民粹主義。
朱大的這篇想法,給我們很好的啟示!(雖然一大早就起床,但為了成就大我,就不要再生氣了!)
2009-11-28 @ 08:34
迴響 from: APERTURE [訪問者]
看過(V怪客)的人因該知道.裡面有句名言:不應該是人民害怕政府.應該是政府害怕人民.害怕人民的輿論.害怕人民的團結能力.(這可能是北市要以蠶食的方式慢慢封鎖輿論自由的原因)當政府以高壓及恐怖來統治人民的時候.人民不應該害怕.害怕舊輸了.應該要團結起來.反抗政府.

ps.北市民.恭喜你們.即將邁入專政的時代.你們以後上公民課時.可以向老師反應.老師!台灣是民主國家這一點有問題!因為北市沒有言論自由!搞不好還可以要到送分喔!
2009-11-28 @ 09:08
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
(Lucifer:你又錯了,你現在可以去北市的學校看看能不能連上蘋果和動新聞的網站,即使非限制級也是連不到,內文有附圖喔。)
朱大您這部分說的不盡正確

市府發言人室所發之原文
「動新聞」違反媒體分級辦法 郝龍斌展鐵腕依兒福法開罰
http://kuso.cc/5aIm (短網址,原連結為北市府網站)

請容我引述其中一段
「郝龍斌表示,在壹傳媒「動新聞」未改善分級狀況之前,臺北市政府所轄各級公(私)立學校即日起停止訂閱蘋果日報,並將勸導師生不要把報紙帶入校園傳閱,同時將校園內所有的電腦封鎖「動新聞」網站IP,避免讓學生接觸到有礙身心發展的畫面。」

北市府現在之所以將其下的各級學校停止訂閱並封鎖動新聞網站
是因為動新聞並未依「電腦網路內容分級處理辦法」第4條,對其內容做出「普」、「護」、「輔」、「限」之分級
故北市府現在對於動新聞之「全部」予以限制,是因為普遍級的新聞跟限制級的混在一起,男女老少都可以自由觀看。

按照發言人室的說法,只要動新聞改善分級狀況,在學校內就有解禁的可能了。
──────────────────
我覺得很疑惑,電視電影之「普」、「護」、「輔」、「限」分級制度
在我國早已行之有年,好像社會上對此尚能接受
為何這次動新聞事件會引起如此軒然大波?難道出版自由不比新聞言論自由?
各何況學者也不都認為動新聞是新聞,而是一種「類戲劇」。
─────────────────
最新消息:動新聞今起分級
http://tw.nextmedia.com/applenews/article/art_id/32123573/IssueID/20091128
目前水果已做出善意回應,只看週一北市府如何回應了
不過這種分級方式,看來會被打槍


Lucifer:我昨天晚上把相關資料已經拿給北市府發言人看了,我說過了,不是僅封鎖動新聞,而是整個蘋果現在已經連不上了。你要不要去看看。老是坐在網路前打字說別人有錯,你作了你的功課了嗎?
2009-11-28 @ 09:52
迴響 from: MCS的石頭 [訪問者]
http://nmxyoshee.pixnet.net/blog/post/25786914

這是幾個月前的新聞,跟今天發展的狀況有異曲同工之妙...
台灣的人民總是懶得自己判斷...才會有一堆公僕亂搞...
2009-11-28 @ 10:50
迴響 from: SL [訪問者]
我必須要承認朱大的這篇文章是很有理。

但我無法認同蘋果的作法。人民可以低俗沒錯,不過我厭惡那種,明知這個行為是低俗的,卻因為大眾喜愛低俗而去寫那樣的新聞。如果一遇到政府的反彈,卻只會拿"不自由"來當反抗,那這跟羅蘭夫人所說的話,有什麼不一樣?溝通是不能這樣溝通的,你看一把"自由"這大標題來抗議,就有多少人說是政府專制什麼的,而不去好好地思考問題點出在哪。

我反對的是蘋果寫新聞的心態啊……如果哪天當事人是你,你會希望自己被像蘋果那樣描寫嗎?一點將心比心的心態都沒有……我是認為,當你被禁止了,為什麼不想辦法去內自省一下?什麼都拿商業利益當考量,是最讓人鄙視的。
2009-11-28 @ 11:47
迴響 from: SL [訪問者]
嘖,看來我剛沒看懂朱大plurk的文章。所以結論是政府的舉動反而是蘋果獲利了。
2009-11-28 @ 11:55
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
To:凱
當然,法律所規定的不一定完全正確
但是動新聞的這個例子所適用之法律與命令,請問有哪裡讓您覺得違背明確性及法律保留原則?有哪一個構成要件、法律效果不夠明確?
是過當?
表現方式強烈?
還是一般成年人尚可接受、尚不致引起一般成年人羞恥或厭惡感者?

空白構成要件雖然有其爭議,但是也有其存在之目的與必要
如果立法機關包山包海包青天,把所有規程、規則、細則、辦法、綱要、標準、準則都明定於法條上
那乾脆叫法律系學生全部去撞六法全書自盡比較乾脆

To:MCS的石頭
「台灣的人民總是懶得自己判斷...才會有一堆公僕亂搞...」
其實並不是人民懶,而是這些法律問題,非法律人處理起來真的很吃力
像您提的這個例子,其實已經可以當作國考上行政法的題目了
2009-11-28 @ 12:20
迴響 from: Colin [訪問者]
贊成一部分朱大的說法
贊成大部分 大叮噹的看法
以下是我個人看法

個人贊成分級制度 但是問題不是在於 分了級會部會仍有人越級去看
我認為分級是讓家長或是有自制力的小孩參考的方法
如果有了分級 家長可以在讓小孩自己接觸時 知道是可以給小孩看 還是需要家長在旁邊陪同 進行教育解說
小孩自己也可以知道 哪些東西 她看了可能會影響身心發展 或是嚇到

而這次動新聞 就是因為太過於腥羶所以引起關注
政府只是在尚未制定良好的分級配套措施前 禁止而已
2009-11-28 @ 12:53
迴響 from: 極惡兄貴 [訪問者]
****-
香港這邊的人對黎智英也沒甚麼好感.

記者偷怕, 狗仔隊跟蹤藝人, 都是他引入到香港報業界中的. 報紙文章水平下降, 新聞娛樂化這類問題更和他旗下的報紙有很密切的關係. 他或許是個一流的生意人, 但卻肯定是個沒操守, 沒道德, 沒抱負的九流傳媒人.

這樣的一個人民公賊, 卻因為當權者視他作異端, 又因為政府和人民對著幹, 結果敵人的敵人便是朋友, 反而成了扛著民主旗幟的英雄.

成就了他的偏偏是一心想摧毀他的敵人, 這就現實是最詭異的地方.
2009-11-28 @ 14:18
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
權利的保護與限制,真的是一個應該嚴謹討論的議題

樓上有朋友提到羅蘭夫人的傳世名句:
「自由,多少罪惡假汝之名行之」

這句話,並不是統治階級為了便於統治而提出來的
而是讓我們這些後世之人,記取前人的教訓,可以對於權利的濫用有所警惕
這不正是我們學習歷史的意義嗎?

法律人常說「權義」
就是指當你行使法律上所保障的權利時,也必須負擔法律上一定的義務。

若今天我發生空難,大難不死漂流到無人島,我在島上當然想怎樣就怎樣
脫光亂跑、隨地拉屎放尿、半夜唱歌、問候教授他家老小
當然沒人管我,因為一個人的世界,享受的自由、權利是絕對的、無限制的

但現實上,我們身處的社會並不容許我們這麼做

每個人在行使自己的權利時,有很大的機會,或多或少會侵害到其他人的權利
試問誰可以主張自己的權利一定大於他人的權利?
又有多少人能夠容忍自己的權利遭到侵害?

避免人民因為自力救濟而造成社會動亂,這也是法律存在的目的之一
也是為什麼行使權利要受到法律「適當」的限制

我們不能只說:權利怎麼可以受到侵害。
也不能只說:他做的不對,應該禁止。

只能就個案,針對法律的規定、發生的事實、侵害權利的程度、以及有無權利保護要件,瞭解以後,再就每個部分進行檢視,做出判斷。


(Lucifer:很簡單的一個問題,台北市政府聲稱依法行政,請問他是不是每日一檢查,確定蘋果日報當天為限制級之後,宣布當天他不能進入校園,還是宣布從此以後不行?
2009-11-28 @ 14:24
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
避免人民因為自力救濟而造成社會動亂,這也是法律存在的目的之一
也是為什麼行使權利要受到法律「適當」的限製法
─────────────────
限製法為「限制」
輸入怪怪的,我打限制他跑出限製法,抱歉
2009-11-28 @ 14:28
迴響 from: 凱 [訪問者]
1.動新聞的例子和空白構成要件無關。

2.大法官明確指出言論自由的限制要有法律明確規定。尤其本例又涉及新聞自由。

3.退一步言,如果肯認兒少法和分級管理辦法均合憲,就算「過當、強烈、接受」等用語符合明確性的標準,主管機關的裁罰措施也該符合比例原則的要求。

4.那個分級管理辦法造成的惡害,相信叮噹大沒有關心過吧。記得當時有個笑話,是說「多拉a夢」,也就是「小叮噹」這部漫畫因為多次出現大雄偷看靜香洗澡,所以被主管機關認為「過當、有散布猥褻言論的嫌疑」,而被查禁販賣。當然後來證實純屬訛言。大叮噹有想過某一天你不能再叫做大叮噹的一天嗎?

2009-11-28 @ 15:26
迴響 from: JENNY [訪問者]
所以總結這次事件的結果是-----

蘋果達到宣傳目的
也開了個沒有多大實質效果的網路分級示範
(有志效法者多學著點哪!)

還有,今後要禁任何跟思想有關的東西
只要舉著兒少法這面大旗就保證有效.....
2009-11-28 @ 15:39
迴響 from: 路過 [訪問者]
歷史教我們的是,人們永遠從歷史當中學不到教訓。
2009-11-28 @ 15:58
迴響 from: 麵線 [訪問者]
*----
別唱高調了, 如果民眾有能力懲罰媒體, 早就天下太平, 世界大同了!
知識份子誤國就像你這種人, 滿口高調, 搞爛又不負責任, 反正你們能力很強, 有能力當世界公民, 隨便去哪個國家都可以過日子, 留下一群聽信你不負責任的言論的傻瓜自食惡果!

(Lucifer:閣下認為自己不是傻瓜,那通通把媒體禁掉,家長都不用教育不是最好了?每天遮住眼睛上學就不會有犯罪啦,哈哈。好棒喔。
2009-11-28 @ 16:36
迴響 from: 亞米提斯 [訪問者]
低不低俗
應該是要視人而定
而非官方規定
只在於眼光
2009-11-28 @ 17:54
迴響 from: 亞米提斯 [訪問者]
低不低俗
應該是要視人而定
而非官方規定


動新聞應該只是呈述一個事實吧
如果要分級
是否電視上的新聞也順便分一分
畢竟有些新聞也有腥色阿
2009-11-28 @ 17:56
迴響 from: 看我對你吐舌頭 [訪問者]
低不低俗不是執政者應該去強加箝制的
例如以前台語歌曲被國民黨打成低俗歌曲
身為學生的我們被教育成只接受國語歌曲
但在踏入社會後我發現以前被認定低俗的台語歌曲是打動我心的
不是國民黨所認定的低俗
國民黨又回到戒嚴時代
民主自由言論倒退30年
藍色選民何時能覺醒啊
這是你們選出來的怪物啊
2009-11-28 @ 21:34
迴響 from: 紅葉 [訪問者] · http://mypaper.pchome.com.tw/redyeh
*----
事實上不論禁或不禁,看或不看,都無法掩蓋我們的周邊充滿了血腥,暴力,低俗以及虛假這些東西。

所以處於現在社會的我們所要做的,是要去訓練自己,提醒自己,什麼是是非,什麼是對錯,還有什麼是人性。

我從來就不覺得那些說自己是學電影或是學漫畫的人他們的行為真的是因為看了這些畫面才造成的。

他們只是在做重要的選擇時失去了人性,如此而已。

他們,只是輸給了自己而已。

2009-11-28 @ 22:36
迴響 from: michael [訪問者]
我曾經聽過一個演講,那個學者雖是來自於大陸,但是它提供的觀點十分客觀,他認為中國
(包括東亞地區)一直以來有一種想法,而這與
西方地方有本質上的不同,這根源來自於儒家
,講求內聖外王

西方與東方本質上的不同在於他們的傳統,東
方的人們期待聖王的出現,但如同孟子所述,
五百年出一聖王,對於聖王的出現是可遇所不
可求的,而西方與我們東方最大的不同,再於
他們會把政客想成是邪惡的,而用法律去限制
政府的權利

比較起來,東方人本質上希望有聖王的出現,
但是聖王假如如同孟子所說,五百年才出一次
,那真的是可遇不渴求

今天我們台灣的政府也是一樣,他們希望人民
有德,但是德行的養成,並不是一蹴可幾的,
我們可以要求人民有德,但是我們同樣可以要
求人民守法,相較於東方的思考,西方的悲觀
策略比起我們,老實說,實際面比較大

我們可以教導我們的人民有道德,這是很好的
,可是我們更應該教導我們的人民守法,法律
畢竟是道德的最低底限,聖賢思考應該成為歷
史,因為並不是每個人,都可以成為聖王先閒

壹州刊的做法,確實不合乎道德,但是我們真
的認為,今天禁止小核子去看這類CG,會可以
阻礙她們的道德養成嗎?這點我很懷疑

大家都清楚了解,高中生愛得是什摩? 我們都
年輕過,我們知道情色是人類的本質問題,今
天妳好市長開罰壹傳媒,對社會的道德教育可以
說是一點影響都沒有,青少年同樣可以從其他管
道糾受到相同的訊息,我個人不相信這類新聞,
對青少年有何重大的影響

因為他們的途徑有更多種選擇,至於自由問題我
就不提了因為版主提過了

大家都曾是高中生,都了解自己喜好哪些東西,
禁止不旦沒有意義,影響也不大,甚至有些矯枉過正,我們不能期待我們的人民都是君子,這是
不切實際的,我希望那些當權者,能想清楚這一
2009-11-28 @ 23:46
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
(Lucifer:我昨天晚上把相關資料已經拿給北市府發言人看了,我說過了,不是僅封鎖動新聞,而是整個蘋果現在已經連不上了。你要不要去看看。老是坐在網路前打字說別人有錯,你作了你的功課了嗎?)

朱大您昨晚有上2100,我也是看這裡跟動新聞(有報朱大)才知道
可恨太晚得知,而且我這裡沒有電視,真的很想看

北市府令學校、圖書館封鎖動新聞,但是整個蘋果的網站都受波及
我目前不在台北,也沒有親戚朋友目前在北市的學校就讀
這件事情不聽朱大您提,我真的不知道
之前的發文若就此點有謬誤之處,很對不起
───────────────
但是,我有疑問
關於蘋果網站也被封鎖

就這幾天看動新聞的瞭解,動新聞似乎並不是一個獨立的網站

當你瀏覽蘋果日報的首頁,有些新聞在標題的旁邊會有一個攝影機的圖示,那就是屬於動新聞類的報導

還有在蘋果首頁的右方,有一個小方塊,那邊也是動新聞類的區域
連結進去以後,就進入動新聞的撥放介面,旁邊還有一些其他的動新聞可以看
底下則有該則動新聞的文字版本

但是,以上的這些動作,全部都是在蘋果的網站底下進行不是嗎

蘋果網站
http://tw.nextmedia.com/
動新聞
http://tw.nextmedia.com/applenews/article/art_id/32123870/IssueID/20091128

小弟不是讀相關科系的,真的不瞭解
這樣動新聞的IP跟蘋果網站的IP,究竟相不相同?

因為北市府說的是「封鎖動新聞網站IP」
那麼當他在封鎖動新聞網站的IP時,會不會同時也把蘋果的網站也一起封了?
──────────────────────
再者,小弟看了近10則的動新聞

「動新聞」似乎是就蘋果日報(網站)中的新聞,將其中較具有話題性、容易引起公眾注目,標題較為聳動的新聞挑選出來,以影像配合文字的方式來傳達給閱聽人

如果這樣,要只封鎖動新聞而蘋果不受影響,真的有可能嗎?
────────────────────
現在蘋果已經提出訴願
若訴願未獲救濟或北市府仍未取消封鎖
之後還有撤銷訴訟、國賠訴訟要打
說不定還會就兒少法或分級辦法相關規定向大法官聲請釋憲…這件事還有得瞧的
2009-11-29 @ 00:45
迴響 from: ColorWolf [訪問者]
*****
這裡的回應向來很精采。其實來這的其中一個目的是為了看回應。
2009-11-29 @ 01:30
迴響 from: ColorWolf [訪問者]
「自由,多少罪惡假汝之名行之」
這句話在目前的討論沒有意義,只有紓發情緒的功能。如果今天政府忽然禁止你出國,你追問為何自己沒有出國的自由,官員回答「自由,多少罪惡假汝之名行之」,不知你會做何感想?這句話有錯嗎?沒有,但是能當做限制你的原因嗎?不能。
2009-11-29 @ 01:40
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
(Lucifer:很簡單的一個問題,台北市政府聲稱依法行政,請問他是不是每日一檢查,確定蘋果日報當天為限制級之後,宣佈當天他不能進入校園,還是宣佈從此以後不行?)

朱大您指的是網路部分,還是實體報紙?

1.蘋果日報(實體報紙)
實體報紙並沒有動新聞的問題
按照北市府的說法
其並未禁止蘋果日報的實體報紙進入校園
而只是取消訂閱,並勸導學生不要帶入校園。學生要帶還是可以帶

學校訂閱報紙理論上應屬於私經濟行政,各級學校停止訂閱蘋果報紙,這是契約自由。

2.網站部分
網路的動新聞部分的話,基於新聞的時效性
北市府若要在其所屬各級學校內對於持續封鎖網路的動新聞,自應每日審查
至於有沒有落實,又是另外一個故事了


Lucifer:實際上不是有沒有落實,而是根本沒有每日審查,這是發言人說的。
2009-11-29 @ 01:48
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
To:凱
(1.動新聞的例子和空白構成要件無關。)

抱歉,跟刑法參在一起做撒尿牛丸了

(2.大法官明確指出言論自由的限制要有法律明確規定。尤其本例又涉及新聞自由。)

您對於大法官就法律明確性及法律保留原則之瞭解,小弟實在佩服。
但不知您對於釋字第570號、第514號、第443號、第367號、第360號之相對法律保留
在動新聞事件中持何種見解?「電腦網路內容分級處理辦法」之規定,究竟是目的?範圍?還是內容?違背了兒少法的授權?

(3.退一步言,如果肯認兒少法和分級管理辦法均合憲,就算「過當、強烈、接受」等用語符合明確性的標準,主管機關的裁罰措施也該符合比例原則的要求。)

綜觀兒少法之規定,對於違反第58條第2項規定之情形,確實找不到可以連續處罰的依據。北市府的連續處罰確有可議之處。

(4.那個分級管理辦法造成的惡害,相信叮噹大沒有關心過吧。記得當時有個笑話,是說「多拉a夢」,也就是「小叮噹」這部漫畫因為多次出現大雄偷看靜香洗澡,所以被主管機關認為「過當、有散佈猥褻言論的嫌疑」,而被查禁販賣。當然後來證實純屬訛言。大叮噹有想過某一天你不能再叫做大叮噹的一天嗎?)

如果您說的惡害是那個笑話,小弟早已聽過了
可否請凱大您拿笑話、傳言以外的東西來指教

再者,假設我真的姓大,名叮噹
就算小叮噹這部漫畫被認為係屬於超越限制級的猥褻出版品(小叮噹對不起)而遭查禁,我還是可以叫大叮噹
頂多我可依姓名條例第7條第1項第6款申請改名罷了
2009-11-29 @ 05:17
人民有低俗的權利 ...
那 .. 請教朱大:

豬血糕可以有自己決定低俗的權利嗎 ?

詳情勞煩移駕部落格一看
http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/jw!qfZbvpmQFQWsW8DVVtPogg--

不好意思,打攪了 ~


(Lucifer:你的文章過於低俗,懶得回。哈欠,連人跟豬血糕都分不清楚,這類引人發笨的文章你是不是應該自律不要亂發?
2009-11-29 @ 05:34
迴響 from: 路過 [訪問者]
是不是應該自律不要亂發?

我笑了...。
2009-11-29 @ 09:18
迴響 from: 老宅男 [訪問者]
偽善不偽善,說我自己就好。

請問我將事件評為低俗時,是否自以為高尚
答案:是的,我自認為高尚

請問別人問我:你承認自己蓋高尚嗎?
答案:不敢承認,用一堆說法掩蓋自以為是的高尚,述說自己有多麼貼近庶民的賤文化。

請問我喜歡蘋果報出版品嗎?
答案:不喜歡,但會看,很愛看名人被挖,那時覺得蘋果扮演上帝的角色。但厭惡色羶腥的受害者照片,例如車禍,性侵,因受害者可憐,又覺得蘋果是魔鬼。壹周刊有時會買來在高鐵看,但總覺蠻丟臉。

結論:接受有隱晦,不光明的自己,很賤的自己,然後繼續陶醉在自以為是的高尚之中。
2009-11-29 @ 10:40
迴響 from: john [訪問者]
***--
的確 如果言論沒有明顯而立即的危險
那就不應該被禁止,那現在是低俗的新聞向不特定多數人傳撥(包含不應接收腥羶色的未滿十八歲青少年)。那我想禁止蘋果日報進入校園並不過分,問題是憑什麼是由郝市長一個人就能決定由論自由的表達範圍,今天市長決的蘋果日報低俗,所以學生不准看
改天市長又覺得娘家太暴力的話呢? 真情滿天下死太多人呢? 禁止學校接收電視電波? 尋文言論應該由媒體自律或由民間團體監督才是,怎嚜可以由公權力決定人們應該看什麼不應該看什麼,
2009-11-29 @ 11:23
迴響 from: 一定要看的鋼彈 [訪問者]
http://www.youtube.com/user/counter656
2009-11-29 @ 12:48
*****
這篇留言真多
來驟熱鬧
2009-11-29 @ 13:27
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
(Lucifer:很簡單的一個問題,台北市政府聲稱依法行政,請問他是不是每日一檢查,確定蘋果日報當天為限制級之後,宣佈當天他不能進入校園,還是宣佈從此以後不行?)

朱大,您這是假設尚未發生的情況

11/16(一) 動新聞正式上線

11/26(四) 北市府開始命其所轄各級學校封鎖動新聞網站IP,並取消訂閱蘋果日報
http://kuso.cc/5aIm (短網址,原連結為北市府網站)

11/28(六) 動新聞自行分級
動新聞今(11/28)起分級
http://tw.nextmedia.com/applenews/article/art_id/32123573/IssueID/20091128
────────────────
在11/28(周6)以前,動新聞因為自己根本沒分級,北市要怎麼審核其分級?

在11/28(周6)以後,動新聞是已分級沒錯,但是週末假日,北市府到底有沒有審核分級情形,並宣佈其不能進入校園的實益?

發言人指的應是,在蘋果進行分級以前,北市府沒有每天進行審查。

而朱大您所說的
「是不是每日一檢查,確定蘋果日報當天為限制級之後,宣佈當天他不能進入校園」

應該是明天以後才會發生的事情。


(Lucifer:就跟你講你沒作功課對吧。週五北市府根本沒作審查,是沿用週四的決定。你要不要上網多看看啦。審查制度是要「評審」其為限制級才會違反兒少法,未分級這裡由就足以限制進入校園了喔,台北市政府是天大的審議權喔?不然那就都說台北市政府都在休假就好了嘛。
2009-11-29 @ 17:27
迴響 from: 廢仁 [訪問者]
只能說 :
時代在進步
跟不上的
滾~~~~~~~

各位專家學者
您知道嗎?
YOYO 跟 MOMO
看的到內衣,酒,及你不要死殺很大的廣告
怎麼沒看見有人出來禁
2009-11-29 @ 19:14
迴響 from: ru04ul4 [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/ru04ul4
老實說我不認同蘋果,但也不認同北市政府。總部能老是放大絕吧?
2009-11-29 @ 19:50
迴響 from: nyhsueh [訪問者]
讓我想起,多年以前立委諸公們辯論能否於校園中置放保險套販賣機,許多立委持反對的理由是,你不放他們就不會想!

我們社會許多人總是偽君子多,小人少啊!更可怕的是都在上層!
2009-11-29 @ 20:50
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
(Lucifer:就跟你講你沒作功課對吧。週五北市府根本沒作審查,是沿用週四的決定。你要不要上網多看看啦。審查制度是要「評審」其為限制級才會違反兒少法,未分級這裡由就足以限制進入校園了喔,台北市政府是天大的審議權喔?不然那就都說台北市政府都在休假就好了嘛。)

朱大,很抱歉我又不懂了

北市府全天監看 敢"動"就罰!
http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/091127/69/1vss7.html

所以北市府社會局的高層都拿那些資料來壓泡麵、墊便當?

北市府沿用週四的決定
這個沿用到底是「經審查後決定沿用」還是「不經審查,直接沿用」?

(Lucifer:算了,你要只剪貼北市府對外的新聞並且真心相信它,我就不知道這跟追求真相的作法哪裡符合了,唉不知道該說什麼。自己想辦法看看北市府有沒有每天一公文對網管單位發佈今天狀況吧。
2009-11-29 @ 21:00
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
很抱歉,我不知道北市府的網管單位是什麼
對不起,我不知道要怎麼得知北市府有沒有每天發文給網管單位
很抱歉,您叫我上網多看看,我只能找到這種假新聞
對不起,小弟不是對於新聞都真心相信,只是能力不足,沒辦法找到反證

朱大您認為您所知道的事情,別人不知道,就是沒做功課
朱大您認為您所知道的事情,我也應該要知道
這樣,跟您曾經批評過的李家同,有什麼不一樣?
這樣,跟您曾經批評的高牆,有什麼不一樣?

對不起朱大,我累了


Lucifer:啊哩,你不想辦法透過關係去查證怎麼我又變成李家同了啦~~~啊我也是去查證的啊,又不是下令誰誰誰告訴我的啦~~~
2009-11-29 @ 23:29
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
跟朱大談到北市府有無每日審查以前,小弟就開始打這篇文了
跟朱大最後那部份的討論,就個人不客觀的意見,覺得討論方向有點鑽牛角尖
這是小弟發的最後一篇文,很抱歉佔用朱大的網頁版面
也很感謝朱大,肯浪費時間在小弟的迴響上
────────────
這篇文也討論了一段時間

小弟假設各位都有親自去看過動新聞
而不是僅僅透過間接的傳述、聽說,或者只透過其他媒體來看動新聞

沒錯,動新聞的動畫的確做的很好
沒錯,用動畫配合文字報導的方式,也很有創意
沒錯,有一些新聞,用動新聞的方式來報導,雖然配音有點搞笑,但是真的很有趣

但是各位有沒有想到,那其他新聞呢?
少年68刀殺人,求刑25年(動新聞從1:30秒處開始)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAtFXcHNsUw

這部影片是11/11放上YouTube的,當時動新聞還沒有自己進行分級
也就是說,男、女、老、少都可以用手機自由觀看這部動新聞
無論是正在宿舍用電腦看部落格的大學生,還是在你家旁邊公園玩的小朋友

我不是什麼優良青年,平日髒話連篇,打電動時也很嗜殺
但是看這篇動新聞時,就連我也受不了,邊看邊罵
───────────
樓上有朋友提到:玩電動比這還暴力、血腥
確實有些遊戲如此

但是我玩遊戲時,我心中會有一個底限,我知道這是假的,而且我不會真的去做
而且遊戲有經分級,未滿18歲者無法以合法手段取得遊戲

但是動新聞的目的,是傳達真實
再者,動新聞(11/28以前),是連分級都沒分級。雅俗共賞、老少咸宜
樓上也有些朋友提到:這種分級有用嗎,還不是跟A片一樣,生命自己會找到出路
──────────────────
因為沒有用、管不住,所以不用、沒必要做

這個並不是訂立分級規定主要應該考量的因素
訂立分級規定,主要是在保護青少年在擁有足夠的判斷力以前,先暫時不受這些東西影響而成長吧
────────────────
而且,新聞真的應該「動」嗎
為什麼最震撼人心的新聞,不是影像,往往是一張張的照片。
因為所呈現出來的是最接近真實的情形

一個社會事件
記者採訪取得故事
再交給動畫師做成動畫

新聞應該不是越「死」、受到的影響越少越好嗎?
──────────────────
有一些學者認為,動新聞應該屬於「類戲劇」而不是新聞
什麼是類戲劇?
變色龍、蜘蛛網這種以旁白說明社會上真實事件,介於新聞跟戲劇的節目就是了

但是類戲劇本來就有爭議
編劇或動畫師,在製作類戲劇或動新聞時,究竟有無加油添醋
或者為求製作的效率,到底對於事實有無增修或過度簡化犯罪原因
還有侵害隱私權跟誘發犯罪等等爭議

若主張新聞自由而不對其進行審查或分級,誰要幫我們把關?

就算動新聞屬於新聞好了
新聞有必要做到這種程度嗎?
對閱聽人傳達真實
這個真實,有必要分析、描述犯罪事實到這種程度嗎?
─────────────────────
當各位主張言論(新聞)自由,不應該由政府來加以限制與分級時
有沒有想到媒體的自製跟其應負的社會責任?
為什麼政府要依法對於言論(新聞)自由,這些憲法上所保障的權利,加以限制?
那是因為,按照台灣的現況,政府不限制的話,媒體是不會自我控制的

因為,以自由與新台幣之名
─────────────────
在各位提到寒蟬效應以前,是不是應該先看個案,就這次動新聞事件來加以評斷


Lucifer:依法行政是台北市政府聲稱的,我國法律已經對政府單位這麼寬容,還不依法行政來管制言論自由,這還要不要自由民主啊!至於談媒體的下流,我想你大概沒有仔細比對各台跟動新聞到底高尚到哪裡去吧。
2009-11-29 @ 23:34
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
網管單位,請問朱大是這個嗎

教育部電子計算機中心
http://www.edu.tw/MOECC/index.aspx
2009-11-30 @ 01:18
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
教育部電子電腦中心=教育部電子 計 算 機中心
奇怪,為什麼我在底下編輯時打電子 計 算 機中心,迴響跑出來卻是電子電腦中心
2009-11-30 @ 01:22
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
台北市教育網路中心
http://web.tp.edu.tw/jdtsai.php?open

是了吧,朱大

(Lucifer:連不上喔。jdtsai是誰啊?
2009-11-30 @ 01:33
迴響 from: chuck [訪問者]
tanet連這裏好像本來就比較慢了
2009-11-30 @ 06:37
迴響 from: 晃晃 [訪問者] Email
為什麼可以開放美牛
由人民拒吃抵制
為什麼不能開放低俗
由人民拒看抵制
標準差太多
抗議啦
2009-11-30 @ 09:15
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
看完朱宅和大叮噹的討論,我覺得越來不確定朱大的立場。

朱大是認為,政府有權屏蔽並確實審查(如果他有做到逐日審查的話)直到動新聞通過明確的分級制度與限制限制級部分的閱聽形式概念。然後再重新開放?

還是這根本單純的就是侵犯並限縮媒體自由,把關者應在人民而非政府單位?政府不應予以設限?

我那天看公視有話好說時,您的立場尚好像沒有這篇這麼豐富。

(Lucifer:錯啦,我的意思是說不管是從言論自由還是從他們自己聲稱的依法行政,北市府通通都站不住腳。
2009-11-30 @ 10:48
迴響 from: 新月 [訪問者] · http://blog.xuite.net/s08333/lamkee
美牛的問題之前已經有很多人說過,是瘋牛蛋白有可能跟隨美牛進入台灣本土的食物鏈,那樣就算人民不吃美牛,還是有機會因為吃其他東西而接觸到瘋牛蛋白啦

===================

我本人也很討厭壹傳媒,本來看到他被封時也暗爽了一下,不過再看到這反而幫了壹傳媒宣傳一把的時候就囧了...


"對青少年和家長,施予安全使用網路的教育,才是最好保護青少年的方式。"

這句我深感認同,的確不應對孩子過度保護(特別是在資訊上):要是禁絕一切所謂可能有害,可能影響學童身心發展的資訊,那麼學童根本就不可能學曉如何分辦什麼是"正當和不正當","有益和有害"等等,因為他們在一個"過份乾淨"的環境中成長,根本沒有所謂"污穢"的概念呀。

因此,不論內地或是台灣官員所謂"為了孩子"為由而禁止某類型的資訊的說法(和做法)完全說不過去;倒讓人覺得是一個打壓言論自由,甚至是資訊管制,思想管制的借口。


往壞一層想,要是政府習慣了這種壓制性的手段,攪不到以後有什麼對政府不利,又或是什麼政府不想見到的言論及資訊,就隨便找個藉口給他封了...(也貌似有人正在做這種事)
2009-11-30 @ 10:53
迴響 from: 櫻桃味菸草 [訪問者]
***--
常常看朱大的文,有時認同有時我會要想想,我不想要變成一個聽某某人說啥時,就絕對相信的人。
關於動新聞我自己內心裡的尺也是還在搖擺中,既為了那些寫實、逼真的動畫而討厭,但也在於言論自由中而搖擺。
說實話我心裡尚未有真的同意誰的主張...
但看朱大的文讓人覺得痛快的是,後面的回覆讓我可以再想、思考不同的層面。不管我同意與否!


(Lucifer:我說的只是一家之言,你的確必須要看到所有人的回覆才能夠做出自己的定見。
2009-11-30 @ 11:07
迴響 from: Alberto [訪問者]
*****
我記得噌經看過這樣一段文字(不過忘記是誰說的啦XD):「如果小心翼翼的將它與所有可能誤導他的書隔離,他就得不到和社會相處的能力,任何一個偏見對他而言,他都沒有足夠的自我思考、判斷能力。不要擔心他暴露在某一個偏見當中,而是要擔心他暴露在不夠的偏見當中。.....保護兒童最好的辦法是給他看最好、最精彩、最有啟發力的書,培養他們獨立思考的能力,讓他們在各種異端思想中擁有自己的免疫力。這鍵是情是身為父母無可推卸的責任,不然,我們不只是造就一批溫室的花朵,也同時孕育了獨裁者的溫床。」
2009-11-30 @ 11:41
迴響 from: 宅心人厚 [訪問者]
新聞見報時,我一直在思索這個議題的處置是否合理。
朱大也跟教育部頗有淵源,
您也知道許多中低弱勢家庭孩子的家庭功能不彰,

而目前的國中小教育的各課程領域中,人權法治僅列為"議題"而無專有領域探討,在功利風氣仍熾的學校教育環境中,探討選擇權、價值觀、自由與義務這種需長期培養的觀念,仍無法在教育中佔重要地位。
因此政府針對無以治本,僅以治標的短視近利手法層出不窮。

那麼標到底治是不治?
防堵當然是很糟糕的方法,但當源頭還沒疏浚,我們在下游是堵是不堵?

或許這是孰輕孰重的問題,
"部分動新聞的執行方式或許有可能造成少數人民身心不良或行為偏差"
而禁絕動新聞的態度則是汙辱了大部分人對價值判斷的能力的愚民政策。

當我們聚焦在台北市政府封鎖ID的問題時,我也在思考朱大的論壇中有幾個中小學生發言了,或者中小學生有沒有能力開始討論這樣的議題?

我在課堂上分享了綠壩事件、魔獸世界被遺忘者長肉事件、動新聞事件,發現學生對這部分的吸收力強但是討論性低,

這件事情好像有點變成在民主與民粹中拔河的弔詭現象。
2009-11-30 @ 13:53
迴響 from: JENNY [訪問者]
這篇文章乍看之下也許有一兩分民主&民粹拔河的味道,
但和朱大最近幾篇文章綜合來看,
私心猜測重點該是討論我們有沒有養成給學生獨立思考的環境。
不講現今家庭教育功能不彰的問題,
我們的學校一直還停留在填鴨時代的舊功利思維。
在我的時代而言,一直到大學才有老師教我思考,(遺憾太遲....)
從現在網路上普遍發言來看,
顯然情況沒有好多少,
不然就不會出現這麼多小白。

是否應該是開始萌芽這個環境的時候了?
但政府處理動新聞事件,
顯然是一個非常粗糙又沒腦的壞示範。
反正就是我幫你製造一個假裝乾淨的環境,
讓你眼不見為淨,你也不用思考什麼;
老師也不必費力氣去抓學生偷看動新聞(天曉得這樣做的成效有多少,他們私底下會更想偷看吧....還有,在學生時代沒有偷看過A片的請舉手!)
2009-11-30 @ 18:47
迴響 from: ninny [訪問者]
本人國小就在看文言文的色情小說......不是金瓶梅喔......我算是文藝青年嗎XDDDDD!
2009-11-30 @ 21:29
迴響 from: 廚獅wei [訪問者]
****-
動新聞有爭議是事時,但是政府拿著「合法」的大刀一砍,見血的往往是砍的人。

NCC的蛋頭,上任至今,很難想像他們竟是大眾傳播的學者?所作的事情讓人瞠目結舌。
而對動新聞「放手」在台灣並不會能夠矯正「錯誤」反而造成的是「淪陷」。

2009-12-01 @ 11:12
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
台北市教育網路中心
http://web.tp.edu.tw/

小弟只是想跟朱大確定一下,這是不是北市各級學校的網管單位
如果是的話我就打電話去問了
雖然不知道他們會不會理我……
────────────────
昨天一整天,小弟不論在上課、拉屎、吃飯,這次的問題還是一直在腦裡散不去
在跟強者我同學們討論後,幾乎花了一整晚構思,小弟心中又燃起熊熊戰火
所以我豪洨,又要上來戰了
────────────────
朱大您提到
(Lucifer:依法行政是台北市政府聲稱的,我國法律已經對政府單位這麼寬容,還不依法行政來管制言論自由,這還要不要自由民主啊!)
但是這次動新聞事件,北市府有沒有依法行政,跟言論自由究竟有沒有受到侵害,這根本是兩碼子事

北市府命其下各級學校封鎖動新聞(蘋果)網站IP,就算北市府在執行上有可議之處,我們可以批評、譴責。但是這次動新聞事件,根本沒有達到侵害言論自由的程度。

朱大您不覺得,您有點專注在北市府到底有沒有踐行正當法律程序,而不是在北市府究竟有無侵害到言論自由?
────────────────
學生在校內上網看動新聞,這根本不是法律上權利
而是一種事實上利益、反射利益

學生不能在學校上網看動新聞
依我國司法實務見解,學生也無法依國家賠償法第2條2項請求國家賠償

而且依「兒少法」,以及「電腦網路內容分級處理辦法」,也沒有規定北市府必須每日審查。
────────────────
再者
學生在學校的目的,「最主要」(不是全部)還是在求學吧
在學校裡上網看動新聞,這頂多只是一種附隨利益,或是反射利益。
這不就跟在學校裡玩開心農場一樣嗎?

沒有錯,這並不能做為政府限制言論自由的理由

但是北市府命其下各級學校封鎖動新聞(蘋果)網站IP,這根本與管制言論自由無關

難道學生不能在學校內觀看動新聞,就真的完全沒有辦法看嗎?
動新聞會因此而被完全封鎖嗎?

難道學校、公立圖書館不訂閱蘋果日報,學生就完全無法以合法的手段取得蘋果日報,而必須以非法的手段自力救濟,想辦法從走私蘋果日報進北市嗎?

學生在學校的目的,「最主要」(絕對不是全部),還是在求學吧
在學校裡上網看動新聞,這頂多只是一種附隨利益,或是反射利益。
這不就跟在學校裡玩開心農場一樣嗎?

今天北市府並沒有限制整個北市的網路連結動新聞(蘋果)網站
也不是依行政程序法150條發佈法規命令,勒令全北市的便利商店、書報攤、書局禁止販賣頻果日報,讓北市民完全沒辦法接觸到動新聞,剝奪了公民社會評斷動新聞的可能與權利。

我真的不懂,朱大您主張的保護言論自由,跟這次動新聞事件,到底有沒有那麼緊密的關聯。
────────────────
大法官不也在釋字623號明白表示:
憲法對於權利之保障,並非「絕對」嗎?
立法者於符合憲法第23條規定意旨之範圍內,得以法律明確規定對之予以適當之限制嗎?

北市府這次的做法,不也是依照「兒少法」的授權,依法行政嗎?
既然法律並沒有規定北市府必須每日審查,我們又憑什麼說北市府沒有依法行政?

朱大您不覺得,您有點專注在北市府到底有沒有踐行正當法律程序,而不是在北市府究竟有無侵害到言論自由?
────────────────
其實這次動新聞事件,北市府根本不用淌這渾水,對動新聞先做出限制
只要函請NCC跟內政部做出解釋,慢慢等就好了

小弟認為(極度主觀)
這次北市府對於動新聞先做出限制,就跟鳩山邦夫簽署死刑執行令一樣
是不圖社會虛名,有肩膀的作為

媽的,我自己都很驚訝我會這樣說
────────────────
最後,小弟跟各位分享一個親身經驗

小弟當時應該是小三或小四,總之小學還沒畢業
當時,變色龍剛開播,電視廣告也打很大
我就很感興趣,想看看這個節目

當時變色龍很早就播了(小朋友也不會太晚睡)
其他家人都在房間,所以只有我一人在客廳看電視

當時在講什麼案情我已經不記得了
我只記得旁白說道,警方找到一具女性的屍體

此時,毫無預警(至少我現在不記得有任何預警)

一張照片,上面毫無任何修飾、馬賽克,就出現在電視螢幕上
我剛開始還不知道那張照片是什麼,很努力的想要看清楚

漸漸我發現,這是人,這是屍體

因為我隱約在那團幾乎不成人形的物體上,可以看到頭髮,還有殘破的四肢

之後劇情在說什麼我也無從得知了
因為我馬上感到一陣噁心,立刻關掉電視跑回房間睡了

媽的,之後我有好一段時間都不能安睡

過了十多年的現在(我現在大四)
我甚至,可以在腦海裡描繪出那張照片大概的輪廓
我甚至,可以看到那種噁心、不是一般人應該要有的皮膚顏色

也許,是我小學時太膽小,看到屍體的照片不應該大驚小怪吧。


Lucifer:台北市政府這麼有肩膀,貓懶就不會那麼久才停了。至於你前面講的什麼鬼依法行政,前面討論就有人問了,你又沒看,我不過只是用法證明台北市政府也沒照著自己的依法行政作而已。既不尊重言論自由,也不尊重依法行政,這樣哪叫有肩膀啊。
2009-12-01 @ 11:59
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
朱大,您提到依法行政
小弟的第一篇迴響,就已經將北市府就這次動新聞事件的法源依據引出來了

(一) 依「兒童及少年福利法」第27條

(二) 行政院新聞局公佈之「電腦網路內容分級處理辦法」第4條

(三) 違反者,依「兒童及少年福利法」第30條第12款

(四) 又違反者,依「兒童及少年福利法」第58條第2項,加以裁處
────────────────
綜觀「兒童及少年福利法」,全75條
http://www.ftjh.tcc.edu.tw/school/offices/assi/law/law02.htm

除了第10條
「I.主管機關為協調、研究、審議、諮詢及推動兒童及少年福利政策,應設諮詢性質之委員會。
II.前項委員會以行政首長為主任委員,學者、專家及民間團體代表之比例不得低於委員人數之二分之一。委員會每年至少應開會四次。」

我實在找不到其他法源依據,北市府應該要依法負何等的審議責任。

綜觀「電腦網路內容分級處理辦法」,全11條
http://www.gio.gov.tw/internet/1.htm
小弟也實在找不到北市府應該要負何等的審議責任。


(Lucifer:審查制度是要「評審」其為限制級才會違反兒少法,未分級這裡由就足以限制進入校園了喔,台北市政府是天大的審議權喔?不然那就都說台北市政府都在休假就好了嘛。)

依照「財團法人台灣網站分級推廣基金會」的評鑑辦法
http://www.ticrf.org.tw/chinese/eval-regulation.htm
以及他們的業務內容
http://www.ticrf.org.tw/chinese/ticrf-contents.htm

動新聞未分級,的確足以構成限制進入校園的理由


朱大,您只針對我論點裡面較為主觀的地方做出回應
朱大,動新聞事件怎麼會扯到貓纜



Lucifer:雞排的哩,這樣下去打字真是沒完沒了,請問台北市政府如果有明確法源依據,到底為何要行文內政部要求解釋哩?你舉的所有法律裡面有哪一條賦予台北市政府「評審」其為限制級,並加以每天限制連結的依據?至於什麼台北市政府動新聞這麼明快是為什麼,你不妨去問問媒體和民代原因。講了貓懶還不懂,就是你悟性太差太過天真。
2009-12-01 @ 14:36
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
(Lucifer:請問台北市政府如果有明確法源依據,到底為何要行文內政部要求解釋哩?)
「動新聞」分級有效?北市:由中央解釋規範
http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/091201/1/1w0vb.html

除非這又是假新聞
──────────────
(Lucifer:你舉的所有法律裡面有哪一條賦予台北市政府「評審」其為限制級,並加以每天限制連結的依據?)

(一)兒童及少年福利法,第6條:
本法所稱主管機關:在中央為內政部;在直轄市為直轄市政府;在縣 (市) 為縣 (市) 政府。
(二) 「電腦網路內容分級處理辦法」總說明,第5點:
http://www.gio.gov.tw/internet/1.htm
五、明定內容提供者應為所屬網站貼上分級標籤,以節省在分級資訊蒐集過程中所需的大量人力與時間。

(三)國家通訊傳播委員會(NCC),網路內容分級問答,第13問
http://antispam.ncc.tw/kidsafety/qa.asp

問十三:對於未主動進行網路分級的內容提供者,如何進行查察取締?罰則為何?

答:各地方政府新聞單位負責查察工作,再交由社政單位負責行政處分。

依據兒童及少年福利法第30條第12款規定:「任何人對於兒童及少年不得有下列行為:十二、違反媒體分級辦法,對兒童及少年提供或播送有害其身心發展之出版品、圖書、錄影帶、影片、光碟、電子訊號、網際網路或其他物品。」

違法者,依同法第58條第2項規定,處新臺幣10萬元以上50萬以下罰鍰,並得勒令停業1個月以上1年以下。

恩…所以北市府不應該只限制IP,應勒令停業。
──────────────
(Lucifer:至於什麼台北市政府動新聞這麼明快是為什麼,你不妨去問問媒體和民代原因。)
11/16動新聞上線
11/25北市府第一次開罰,50萬元罰鍰
11/26北市府第二次開罰,50萬元罰鍰+限制網路連線+取消訂閱報紙
這有處理明快嗎?

很抱歉,我不應該在通曉「社會事」以前來這裡放肆
再者,一分證據說一分話,我沒有認識民代或媒體,無法求證

但是,朱大您這篇文章怎麼不說:為何以政治力、政治原因、選舉介入新聞自由,而以言論自由來立論。
難道怕被拿去做消波塊?
──────────────
(Lucifer:雞排的哩)

麻煩脆皮雞排一份,加海苔不切不加辣,謝謝



(Lucifer:你的法律讀到哪裡去了?閱讀能力這麼差要不要回去重新反省?你自己貼的法條裡面哪一條註明了台北市政府有權限制轄下機關的IP連線到該單位?停業就停業,開罰就開罰,擴大職權運作和解釋是正當合理的作法嗎?

我為了配合你大呼台北市政府英明的程度,還為你解釋台北市政府圍魏救趙的政策,結果閱讀能力低落的你還最後倒打一耙說我為何不以政治力為角度?因為我本來就不是以政治力為角度,是為了配合你在那邊瞎呼台北市政府英明萬歲的缺乏常識行為,懂嗎?

照你這種程度還跟人家吃雞排哩,閱讀能力和解讀法條的能力這麼低落,難怪台灣盲目尊崇權威的人這麼多,因為連文章都讀不懂還要出來丟人現眼,呿呿。
2009-12-01 @ 23:15
迴響 from: 大叮噹 [訪問者]
我沒有大呼台北市政府英明...
這幾篇迴響中,我只有用5行不到的文字來表達我對北市府的看法,我也認為這極度主觀
但是我不是大呼台北市政府英明...

兒少法第6條,明定主管機關在直轄市為直轄市政府
兒少法第58條2項,也僅規定
「處新臺幣十萬元以上五十萬元以下罰鍰,並得勒令停業一個月以上一年以下。」

並沒有明定,到底是北市或是中央的主管機關(內政部/NCC)可以做出裁罰...

朱大您說的是
您說我專業能力不足、閱讀能力低落,我完全沒辦法反駁


「你的法律讀到哪裡去了?閱讀能力這麼差要不要回去重新反省?」
以後每讀書時,我一定會記得這一段,我會記得朱大您給我的忠告,我不會忘記

小弟已經盡可能的去查證了,雖然這在朱大的標準下仍然是盲目尊崇權威...缺乏常識...

我只恨我為什麼不是朱學恆

跟您對談,受益匪淺

我會反省,我不會忘記

謝謝您的時間

Lucifer:你不用是朱學恆,因為他很胖,但是你不可以把任何政府的擴權解釋當作理所當然。你可以替他們辯解,但別忘記,政府永遠都要用比人民更高規格的標準去監督,不然人民會跟著一起完蛋~~~
2009-12-02 @ 07:38
迴響 from: 痴人 [訪問者]
***--
法對法,比的是階級!
古人所云:道高,魔更高
每個人心中各有所道,只不過心魔更利害阿!

天下之大,筆戰也出英雄與梟雄......
上面這句....好沒意義.....
2009-12-03 @ 08:42
迴響 from: 春江花月 [訪問者]
關於動新聞被裁罰我倒不認為攸關政府介入言論自由,有些事情人民可以決定,有些商品市場可以自然淘汰,不過像新聞力,政治力,這一些本身就凌駕於民眾選擇之上的東西是人民無力改變的,這次動新聞之所以會引起喧然大波其實也是新聞造成的,在各家媒體鞭打之前似乎也不紅
朱大拿了遊戲在做比喻似乎也所差甚遠,遊戲商品在台灣競爭十分激烈,但市場卻不算大,也就是淘汰率很高,然而媒體新聞這類在台灣卻是無可動搖,新聞台不會因你不看他而倒閉的
自由,自由多少罪惡假汝之名以行之,而當二種自由權力互相碰撞之時,仍然是拳頭大者勝,我不想受動新聞影響,但事實上動新聞不會因某些人不喜而消失,那自由到底是好的還是壞的呢


(Lucifer:以前有個叫做環球的電視台、也有叫做Power TV的都不見了喔。不作功課又在那邊亂講。
2009-12-04 @ 23:33
迴響 from: Hahamula [訪問者]
TO 大叮噹:

你提到第617號解釋, 從你的回文裡我斗膽推測您是支持617號解釋文的立場....不過, 不知道您有沒有看過許玉秀大法官對於617所提出的不同意見書, 裡面一開頭就寫到:

" 本席因為不曉得在四處緊急調度使用的文句組合之下,多數意見知不知道自己在想什麼、寫什麼和做什麼,所以不敢附和;因為懷疑多數意見不是新性文化價值觀對舊禮教的安撫,而是所謂男女常態性價值秩序霸權對所謂少數性文化族群的施捨,所以不敢贊同。爰提出不同意見書論述理由如下。"

全文可在此看到
http://www.judicial.gov.tw/CONSTITUTIONALCOURT/p03_01.asp?expno=617

而小弟我很認同許玉秀她對於617的批評, 大法官的解釋不一定就是聖旨, 特別是對於這種類型的議題, 一堆人保守的程度不下於西方國家的右派份子哩~

動新聞這陣子來的事情發展, 剛好讓那些被蘋果打趴的媒體, 一個個像禿鷹出來啃個兩三口, 諸見各大報的社論滿口仁義道德新聞專業云云便可一窺之. 至於台北市那個渣fit人的嘴臉...只能說又不是第一天認識他了....
2009-12-05 @ 02:11
迴響 from: Candy [訪問者]
其實大家都沒看出朱大真正的文中之意

「人民有低俗的權利,政府有查禁違法的責任,但請把品味低下留給公民社會來懲罰!(動新聞事件的評論啦)」

重點不是前兩句,反而是「但請把品味低下留給公民社會來懲罰!」文中之意已經很明顯了!

在場每一位公民(或是未來的公民)如果你可以自己分辨低俗與否,如果你可以自己決定低俗與否的自由與尊嚴,那麼相信接下來你的做為將決定這個公民社會的低俗程度與低俗與否的自由與尊嚴為何!因為你是公民社會其中一份子!

「因為以剝奪言論尺度的大惡換取乾淨新聞的小利就跟與惡魔交易一樣,不但從來不值得,而且是會上癮的。」

真的不值得阿!因為自由是以不侵犯他人權利自由為前提,如果為了求得觀看乾淨新聞的自由,就去封殺動新聞的言論自由,那我們豈不是變成動新聞成為惡魔一樣了!

所以請把動新聞「留給公民社會來懲罰!」
2009-12-07 @ 03:25
迴響 from: 禁動新聞太瞎了 MSNBC選郝龍斌為最糟之人 [訪問者]
Keith Olbermann's "Worst Person" - Taipei City, Taiwan Mayor Hau Lung-bin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tO7NWuUUPw&feature=player_embedded
2009-12-09 @ 17:19
迴響 from: 路過的 [訪問者]
再台灣依法行政一直只是口號,實際上從未落實
郝先生的所謂依法根本就無法可依,只是強詞奪理而已,內政部局處都沒說話了關台北市政府屁事
NCC這各畸形兒就更可笑了
直轄市政府何時有審查權可以全面查禁出版物了
直轄市政府員工及其外聘員工又何時有裁量權可以判定該不該讓民眾閱覽
更何況台北市政府有依照比例原則成立所謂的審議單位或分級制度嗎?有才是見鬼勒!全面查禁不是更乾脆

什麼時候我們的政府偉大到它說是我們就得點頭了
郝先生無疑就是破壞行政學的行政依法的最大元兇
為何會有為其辯護〝官〞的權利是如何偉大

釋憲617就更好笑了,這條釋憲不論哪各法學者全都罵翻天,只有萬惡又不讀書的法官才引用該釋憲故意入人民於罪
居然用有限的文字去解釋無邊的曖昧,如同刑法第10條中無端解釋所謂的性交,無疑徒增困擾
2009-12-10 @ 15:22
迴響 from: 又是路過的 [訪問者]
算了!乾脆告訴你們
朱老大想說的應該是所謂媒體第四權的制衡概念
意即藉由公意〈公正民意〉搭配媒體制衡概念
限縮利用藉由新聞報導自由的名義,暴力侵害個人權益的媒體工作者

不過台灣媒體就算了!實在看不出人云亦云的那些所謂媒體工作者有什麼操守可言
更別提上述迴響的人們有什麼公民概念
因為台灣壓根就沒有公民教育,除了倫理道德和健康建育學得非常之熟徹以外,其他的公民應有的意識趨近於零
郝先生擺明把人民當蠢豬、愚民愚夫對待,居然還有為其辯護的〝公民〞
台灣的政府已經夠大了,不要再把公民應負擔的責任丟給政府去解決
2009-12-10 @ 19:22
迴響 from: 春江花月 [訪問者]
問題在 人民有能力制衡媒體嗎

(以前有個叫做環球的電視台、也有叫做Power TV的都不見了喔)
我真的沒看過這二個電視台0.0 不過他們倒閉是因為他們做了什麼壞事被群眾拋棄嗎

(Lucifer:他們作了最大的壞事就是節目不精彩沒人看,所以倒了。
2009-12-10 @ 22:01
迴響 from: 大刀 [訪問者] · http://sakuraikmu.blogspot.com
****-
朱大:

我不管低不低俗,但你的blog怎麼可沒值班正妹(別跟我說侯**是正妹:))


(Lucifer:這個有拿馬賽克棒的也勉強可以算啦~~~
2009-12-14 @ 10:51
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2014-11-25 @ 17:46
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2014-11-26 @ 05:51
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2014-11-26 @ 05:53
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2014-11-26 @ 06:24
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2014-11-26 @ 06:31
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2014-11-26 @ 06:39
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2014-11-26 @ 10:56
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2014-11-26 @ 11:27
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2014-11-26 @ 12:52
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2014-11-26 @ 13:31
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2014-11-26 @ 13:39
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2014-11-26 @ 14:50
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2014-11-26 @ 15:09
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2014-11-26 @ 15:21
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2014-11-26 @ 16:32
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2014-11-26 @ 16:36
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2014-11-26 @ 18:34
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2014-11-26 @ 18:37
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2014-11-26 @ 18:59
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2014-11-26 @ 19:12
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2014-11-26 @ 19:53
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2014-11-26 @ 20:43
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2014-11-26 @ 21:00
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2014-11-26 @ 22:02
迴響 from: top selling real estate agents [訪問者] · https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VS8TFJUjVpU&feature=youtu.be
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2014-11-26 @ 22:17
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2014-11-26 @ 22:53
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2014-11-26 @ 23:35
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2014-11-26 @ 23:35
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2014-11-26 @ 23:45
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2014-11-27 @ 01:57
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2014-11-27 @ 03:35
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2014-11-27 @ 04:42
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2014-11-27 @ 04:57
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2014-11-27 @ 05:04
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2014-11-27 @ 06:48
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2014-11-27 @ 08:13
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2014-11-27 @ 09:13
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2014-11-27 @ 17:10
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2014-11-27 @ 17:51
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2014-11-27 @ 21:24
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2014-11-28 @ 01:17
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2014-11-28 @ 03:21
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2014-11-28 @ 03:31
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2014-11-28 @ 03:44
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2014-11-28 @ 03:46
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2014-11-28 @ 03:56
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2014-11-28 @ 05:02
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2014-11-28 @ 05:22
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2014-11-28 @ 05:32
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2014-11-28 @ 05:40
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2014-11-28 @ 05:56
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2014-11-28 @ 06:16
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2014-11-28 @ 06:38
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2014-11-28 @ 06:50
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2014-11-28 @ 06:53
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2014-11-28 @ 07:31
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2014-11-28 @ 14:26
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2014-11-28 @ 15:57
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2014-11-28 @ 16:51
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2014-11-28 @ 17:10
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2014-11-28 @ 19:25
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2014-11-28 @ 20:44
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2014-11-28 @ 20:50
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2014-11-28 @ 23:03
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2014-12-11 @ 01:48
Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass' favor.
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The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.
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2014-12-12 @ 22:34
I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
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I'll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
2014-12-13 @ 00:06
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This is getting a bit more subjective, but I much prefer the Zune Marketplace. The interface is colorful, has more flair, and some cool features like 'Mixview' that let you quickly see related albums, songs, or other users related to what you're listening to. Clicking on one of those will center on that item, and another set of "neighbors" will come into view, allowing you to navigate around exploring by similar artists, songs, or users. Speaking of users, the Zune "Social" is also great fun, letting you find others with shared tastes and becoming friends with them. You then can listen to a playlist created based on an amalgamation of what all your friends are listening to, which is also enjoyable. Those concerned with privacy will be relieved to know you can prevent the public from seeing your personal listening habits if you so choose.
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The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod's. It works well, but isn't as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that's not an issue, but if you're planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod's larger screen and better browser may be important.
2014-12-13 @ 06:13
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2014-12-13 @ 06:44
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