朱恐龍
朱恐龍

碳粉匣之國。 (60461 views)
     

這個國家什麼都沒有,就是有很多碳粉匣。

Follow up:

如果以教育部五年五百億前一陣子的調查報告看起來,我國的大學其他部分的能力不用說,光是以印表機的印刷能力來看,應該可以獨步全世界。根據自由時報2010年4月10號的一篇報導:「台大等校在三年半內,就花了一億一千七百萬購買碳粉匣和墨水匣,其中每年拿卅億的台大就花了近五千萬,金額且逐年倍增,從第一年的五百七十五萬跳到第二年的一千兩百九十五萬,第三年則達兩千四百卅九萬…就在監委開始調查後,去年上半年台大等十一校購買碳粉匣的金額立刻減少五成以上,計減少九百零五萬元,台大減少六成、交大減少八成八、中央減少六成八、長庚減少八成九…」

當然,台灣有些教授和研究生什麼鬼東西都印出來看的落伍行為可能對碳粉匣的消耗有相當正面的影響。但好啦,如果你當過研究生或是接過國科會計畫,你就知道問題在哪裡。

問題很簡單啊,我國這類的學術體系的報帳系統防弊非常小心,彈性卻非常的小。以講座鐘點費來講:短期性課程鐘點費(給付標準為校內老師為800 元/小時、校外專家學者1,600 元/小時、國外聘請2,400 元/小時)。這樣的費用真的合理嗎?

像我這種小人物出國演講的單次費用除了機票食宿全包之外,我一次要收費一千兩百美金;你覺得以每小時2,400新台幣能夠請到什麼樣的國外專家?

好啦,這個不知道誰編的鬼標準撇在一旁不論,你反正還是得請國外那些貴松松的專家來,那錢怎麼辦哩?很多單位的技巧就是想辦法編到別的領域去。少數不需要清楚單據和來源說明、簽到表的費用歸類在雜支項目,以98年度教育部的「獎勵大學教學卓越計畫」的經費支用規範來說,雜支費用不得佔業務費用的6%以上;很自然的,很多報銷不了的費用,自然就會被歸納到這一項目上。但裡面的類別又僅限於:「文具用品、紙張、錄音帶、資訊耗材(例如:碳粉及墨水匣)、資料夾、郵資及誤餐費(每人上限為80 元)。」

好啦,你仔細算一下就知道,要抵掉部分難以報銷的花費,你要報幾十萬張的紙,還是報一個幾千塊的碳粉匣?

當然是碳粉匣嘛!我依稀還記得幾年前在那碳粉匣還不夠普及的年代,網友在討論這類學術經費報帳有多麼痛苦時,還有人說他開過五公里長的網路線、十公里長的USB線發票,因為要抵掉其他部分的花費……而我也記得每次邀請外國貴賓和學者來演講之後,晚上的晚宴費用也都是不能報帳的。(一天活動的餐費限報250元喔,這樣的費用你晚餐連鬍鬚張滷肉飯都吃不起捏!)

我自己還有跟某大學合辦活動最後對方卻反悔不出錢的經驗,我當然知道學術界的渾帳真的很多;但是為了防弊把這些搞研究的學者通通變成碳粉匣專家,這真的值得嗎?

某教授在越南跟我說了一句話:「放寬限制肯定會有弊端,但增加研究經費的自由度卻也肯定會帶來更大的好處。」

你覺得呢?

(本文原刊載於非凡新聞週刊不知道哪一期~~~~)

Lucifer

http://www.flickr.com/photos/likephoto/

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迴響(248)

迴響 from: 某某路人甲 [訪問者]
這次一定頭香!
2010-06-02 @ 19:07
迴響 from: 凱樂B [訪問者] Email
我研究所的時候也幹過...報耗材實際是買研究室的開發板
2010-06-02 @ 19:11
迴響 from: 天將奔烈 [訪問者]
3
2010-06-02 @ 19:19
迴響 from: Beelzebub [訪問者]
*****
前五~
想說看到波波之亂的報導
上來看一下有沒有新發展~~~XD
2010-06-02 @ 19:24
迴響 from: 章魚哥 [訪問者]
朱大您應該出來選立委(國家需要您)
2010-06-02 @ 19:43
迴響 from: 楊迺仁 [訪問者] Email · http://www.facebook.com/yangnaijen
我就說嘛!你上次在世新演講,中文系主任不小心說溜嘴的演講費,根本就虧待了你!(哈哈,我在現場,但演講結束後,湧上去的正妹太多,我只好摸模鼻子先走一步了...)
2010-06-02 @ 19:59
迴響 from: coolchung [訪問者]
太中肯了!
不只實驗室報帳,連大學社團報帳規定都很不合實際情況
然後之後再質疑什麼學生學校亂花錢,亂報帳之類
在這之前為什麼不先想想法規到底有沒有問題呢?
2010-06-02 @ 20:02
迴響 from: 艾瑞克 [訪問者] Email
*****
標題很有奇諾風~~
搞不好哪天原作者就寫了一篇以主題為名的國家XD

話說 下一集的奇諾之旅...不知道要等多久...
2010-06-02 @ 20:06
迴響 from: vss [訪問者]
***--
化學系最好報帳~~~一堆沒人看得懂的藥品
幾十萬就這摸報出去了~~~XD

1 g 3~5 K 的藥很多阿 XD
2010-06-02 @ 20:16
迴響 from: 苗商學生 [訪問者]
*****
您的演講真是太讚了,是我聽過最棒的一場,雖然沒有機會可以在聽見,但我會記住的。
2010-06-02 @ 20:24
迴響 from: 阿亮 [訪問者]
在大學裡設備費規定只能買壹萬元以上的東西, 所以如果你要買壹萬元以下的某個設備, 就要有業務費, 問題是業務費根本不夠花, 只好從設備費轉 (有規定轉出和轉入的比例上限), 到後來大家只好學老鼠到處鑽, 這就是學術界的普遍現象. 朱大我在洛杉磯依舊支持你, 出國前在國小國中和某科大的四場演講我都以給吳道源的600封信影音資料當做結尾, 頗為感人
2010-06-02 @ 21:25
迴響 from: 朱厚宅 [訪問者]
*****
一個美國笑話:

一個教授作研究要買骰子,駁回

要買亂數產生器,通過

台灣是個非常容易向先進國家學壞的地方啊!
2010-06-02 @ 23:01
迴響 from: DaveQ [訪問者]
這就是所謂的化整為零啊!!!
2010-06-02 @ 23:18
迴響 from: zoe [訪問者]
所有要報公家的費用都會這樣搞的啦...
我們20人的辦公室一年買的耗材和連接器大概可以讓做連接器的小工廠出一個月的單了...
唉,名目太死單價太低,只能這樣報啊...
2010-06-02 @ 23:59
迴響 from: Shengti [訪問者] · http://www.wretch.cc/blog/stl0126
這社會本來就如此黑暗..(嘆
2010-06-03 @ 00:32
迴響 from: 千瀨之火 [訪問者]
前20!!!
2010-06-03 @ 00:36
迴響 from: jinger [訪問者]
如果台灣的大學少一點
那分到的經費就會比較多吧?
2010-06-03 @ 00:41
迴響 from: 哈哈哈哈哈 [訪問者]
*****
這真的只能給推,我們是應該檢討經費的使用制度了,這類情形大學之中比比皆是,冰凍三尺非一日之寒,但又有哪個委員願意發聲哩?
2010-06-03 @ 00:44
迴響 from: TY [訪問者]
突然有種熟悉感....才發現
第一張照片是我照的 XD

不過還是推

(Lucifer:相當感謝您的情境照片啊.....)
2010-06-03 @ 00:55
迴響 from: Iso [訪問者]
報帳真的是會報到想打人,要用的不見得都能買,買了還會被警告說可能不能報,錢沒花完還被說預算執行不力,如果該買的可以買不用老師學生自己貼又怎麼會預算執行不力。
2010-06-03 @ 02:15
迴響 from: 綜合水果汁武士 [訪問者]
*****

.......................
2010-06-03 @ 05:58
迴響 from: Colin Wen [訪問者]
其實除了報帳外
我也發現台灣學生或是研究人員 胡亂影印東西也是個問題
除了花錢外
這些白紙都浪費了
碳粉夾也是不易處理的東西 會造成環境的汙染

我常看到 實驗室很多人就直接印網路的東西 下來看
看完就回收
根本是浪費資源

這是另一個碳粉夾亂象 唉
2010-06-03 @ 07:40
迴響 from: baabuu [訪問者] · http://www.plurk.com/baabuu
*****
***
閱畢~~

====
台灣,不意外!
2010-06-03 @ 09:16
迴響 from: AntiKMT [訪問者]
*****
看到朱大這篇想到以前唸大學在電腦教室印個東西一張還要收個1元兩元的,真是有夠火大!

難道說先去買一堆碳粉夾然後回來轉現金嗎?
2010-06-03 @ 09:43
迴響 from: Annie [訪問者]
我自己也是做公家機關系統的,我發現其實時代在進步,推行電子化,可是因為人的老習慣沒變,所以浪費依舊,且會更嚴重。

像以前還沒推行電子公文,政府機關對於需要公告周知的公告,會採取比較節省的態度,發給該發的就好了,所以假設一個公告列印了一百張寄出去。現在有了電子交換,好像發不用錢一樣,所以隨隨便便就會一份公文發給全國各機關。問題是目前大多數機關的電子交換系統,是接收到電子檔以後,自動從印表機列印出來,紙本會核。

造成的結果只是,原來一個機關省了99張紙跟郵資,然後幾百個甚至幾千個機關一人列印一張。

砍了更多的樹、用了更多的碳粉。
2010-06-03 @ 10:28
迴響 from: DENTY [訪問者]
這篇在中時登過
當時有回文

這網頁有會計人員在看嗎?
發個聲吧!

報帳的規定不多
花點時間看或許誤會會少些

邀請的講者若身價不凡
就專案簽准

申請研究計畫要附經費概算表
沒寫當然不能買!
如果連自己的研究將需要什麼都不清楚
那可以問句
「真懂自己在做什麼嗎?」

研究經費實際怎麼用
多的是看過的眼睛

看過報帳規定的眼睛
哪裡找?

2010-06-03 @ 11:03
迴響 from: 夏夜 [訪問者]
***--
Annie 說的對...

常作power point簡報
用好後把檔案co到隨身碟, 交給承辦人

承辦人說: 不要給電子檔, 請幫我印彩色12份!
(問題是這只是初稿, 除了邊框有2條藍線, 內文都是黑白的啊...)

接著改了n次, 又印了12份n次...

最後在會議中才用投影機簡報, 以符合滅少用紙政策...這....這...
2010-06-03 @ 11:11
迴響 from: [POD] fox (26) [訪問者]
...兩年後的機警...算不算是真的機警?...

ps.(蠻多人真的以為買了碳粉匣...)
2010-06-03 @ 12:26
迴響 from: ooxx [訪問者] Email
目前國內現行講座鐘點費根本就是笑話!
這麼賤的價錢!
連外面出版社有樣學樣, 找我去做個兩小時演講才給一兩千元車馬費,
我都不好意思說在我辦的網聚, 我給的講座鐘點費是10分鐘1000元!
2010-06-03 @ 12:35
迴響 from: Double [訪問者] · http://doublechiang.blogspot.com
台灣本來就是最在行有什麼弊端,就全面禁止。滿地的禁行機車以及禁止重型機車上高速公路都是同一想法。啊,我說錯了,大陸這方面還比台灣更在行,大陸連整個網路都封鎖了。我們正在向大陸看齊呢。
2010-06-03 @ 12:36
迴響 from: 冰糖 [訪問者]
****-
千年來一向如此,
只不過換名稱而已~~~~
2010-06-03 @ 15:56
迴響 from: 傑夫貓 [訪問者]
讓我猜猜...

那位南非偽教授...

遞出來的名片...

應該是...

"巴格蘭‧卡車斯基"...

所以被當成俄國人了吧~!!
2010-06-03 @ 16:37
迴響 from: Ash [訪問者]
我一點也不奇怪有這麼多神奇的碳粉帳單.

為什麼要? 早在高中時代,我可愛的活動組組長就已經明白告訴過我,社團活動經費是個笑話,想輔助只能用活動報帳立名目混過去,當時我很天真的問他:本社團幫學校做海報,到底要怎麼藉此說帳單上有兩個置物櫃? 置物櫃!

然後我大學休學跑去當替代役,隨後很高興的得知其實市政府也在做完全一樣的事情,當然假帳無論因為什麼理由都是假帳,即使是由政府機關開出來的也一樣.

接著當完了替代役我再度跑回大學,並且毫不驚訝的發現系上老師很興奮的詢問一隻測光計的價碼是否低於一萬元台幣門檻,因為這表示他可以靠業務費掰掉這筆採購開銷.

我一點也不驚訝假帳存在,為什麼要?

但我驚訝為什麼從裡到外所有人都在做,做到徹底成了常態的一部分,做到我已經連驚訝都懶的程度,然後世界依然照常運轉,好像一切都是天公地道的.

我一點也不驚訝這之中有問題.

我驚訝的是為什麼所有人都曉得問題在哪,卻依然可以選擇視而不見.


最後我沒有簽下置物櫃,我留給學弟妹更多置物櫃幹什麼? 

我也沒有簽下一堆雜七雜八的麥克筆,在我修理老人公寓熱水器還得直接去無人樓層拆來換的時候,幾隻麥克筆又能幹什麼?

我不曉得那隻測光筆到底現在是買了沒有,但在師資乃至請來的演講者全都一蹋糊塗的時候,幾隻測光筆還能幹什麼?

我應該說往好處想這些嚴格說來都不算貪汙,只是遊走於體制外的違法卻實際的折衷方案,然後心安理得的覺得一切正常,太陽依舊升起嗎?


2010-06-03 @ 17:40
迴響 from: Ash [訪問者]
再補

想不想知道什麼叫做終極的浪費資源?

"彩色的簽到表看過沒有~~~~~"


難道是為了怕簽到表太好偽造之類的嗎?!
2010-06-03 @ 17:49
迴響 from: Michael [訪問者]
這是台灣公務單位的陋習了。當過兵的應該很了解。

先是訂出嚴格到不近人情的規定,實務上卻又有很大的模糊空間,等到真的要惡搞某些人的時候就會拿這些出來搞。

扁的國務機要費 vs 馬的市長特別費

就是一個很好的例子啊!
(那個什麼海角七億,其實判決書裡面根本少有著墨,初審判刑的依據主要還是國務機要費的湊發票問題。)
2010-06-03 @ 18:32
迴響 from: ej [訪問者]
不要放寬比較好。

因為有些人沒放寬已經覺得社會規則不能加在「作研究很辛苦」的他們身上,放寬了,那還得了。更有身兼行政職的某些人,會將公家的錢當自己的私庫,覺得「那是兼行政職應有的額外收入」。沒放寬,還可以用這些討厭的死板規定擋一下。

再說,他們碳粉夾好像是用印刷費報的。還有會報一些完全沒有人用的資訊耗材,比方說單位根本沒有買投影機(不是單槍喔),卻買了超多又貴的彩色投影片....

審計應該沒有很想要追殺到底吧!如果真的要往下查,很多業務費調資訊設備出來對照,就很有趣了啊~不然拿幾張大額的去調廠商進出存貨紀錄~

只是,放寬倒真的有個好處,通常這些人都知道是灰色地帶的報帳,承辦人的章都叫助理還是學生蓋,一查,全都是這些人要擔。

演講費日支費也許不合理,不過,我不覺得這些多報的錢是用來支應這個項目。
2010-06-03 @ 20:30
迴響 from: 剛路過的 [訪問者]
台中市對於四個警察在翁奇楠招待所作啥...死不公佈..還是只有我會好奇...
2010-06-04 @ 00:48
迴響 from: 某尾共 [訪問者]
用來印經文、善書好了
2010-06-04 @ 01:04
迴響 from: presario [訪問者] Email

DENTY大概沒有申請過研究預算吧。

台灣的研究經費的報帳規定根本就是限制計畫主持人花預算,好不好。

預算執行率過低,明年預算不給這麼多。

預算各科目經費,不能隨意流用,就算要流用也只能流用10%。換句話說,設備費只能買設備,聽起來很合理,那要買耗材就不能用設備費,一定要用業務費,那如果一定要花這麼多耗材費,或是耗材漲價勒?好啦,可以流用10%,那機器壞了要修,你以為流用10%夠嗎?那有沒有錢修?有啊,可是只剩下設備費。所以不可以修,更不要提有些機器還要年度保養。然後設備費花不掉還要被冠上預算執行不力的帽子。

你說當初申請預算的時候應該要知道這些啊,事啊,知道有個用,預算一定會被砍啊,要買台離心機預算報十萬元,一定會被砍到剩一半,甚至更慘。那要怎麼辦?研究還要不要做,學生要不要畢業,當然要啊,不做五年後就是回家吃自己,然後學生延畢嗎。那錢就是不夠啊,你以為會計室的人會關心這種事情嗎?

不要在那邊何不食肉糜好不好
2010-06-04 @ 11:21
迴響 from: 貢丸 [訪問者] Email
上面有人說這樣不算貪污..

不過實際以這幾年的扁騜之戰~還有一堆官員報假帳的案件來看..

那些買內衣犒賞員工..
買童書餽贈外賓..吃三井也報國務G要..
XX議長吃一餐幾萬牛肉麵等等..

最後結果有貪污也有無罪的..
其實是可大可小..法官自行決定的感覺..

不過滿期待幾萬個教授被起訴的畫面..
或許才可以喚起制度的改革~
2010-06-04 @ 13:44
迴響 from: 心痛 [訪問者]
不只這樣
還有很多3.5磁片
國稅局的傑作
花大錢買不用的東西
然後被k了
才說明年用光碟
這種跟貪污圖利應該脫不了關係
誰用3.5磁片
國稅局沒說用混的回應
這就是我們的國家
花錢不心疼
2010-06-04 @ 15:04
迴響 from: Kr [訪問者]
to DENTY

你有當過研究生嗎
你有申請過國科會計畫嗎
如果你真的跑過這些流程的話
你就會知道沒像你說的這麼簡單
沒看過報帳規定?
一堆報帳的研究生、助理把規定翻了又翻,看了又看的
最後的結論就是像朱大講的
或許你覺得很不合理
但報帳的也沒人覺得合理
可是問題是出在這些人身上還是把規定弄成非要人走偏門才行的人身上呢?
2010-06-04 @ 17:00
迴響 from: breeze666 [訪問者]
= ='''教授真的很喜歡什麼東西都要印出來...作一份論文不知道砍了幾顆樹....
2010-06-04 @ 21:25
迴響 from: 苗商同學 [訪問者]
謝謝可愛的小胖把拔的演講!
我花了好長一段時間才把眼淚收乾
演講過後花了一天半的時間整理規劃了我的夢想
好久沒有如此用力作夢沉睡已久的靈魂最近忙的好開心
當然也會實踐它

不知你的信念和書《死的型錄》裡所傳達的是否相同:「盡可能筆直地朝向死亡,
將每一天慢慢摺疊起,這樣到了死前,才不會被自己的人生壓垮。」

不後悔的人生!

不管如何,真的謝謝你的演講

每天早起準備演講辛苦你了! 不要太累啦

要隨身攜帶初衷,就能獲得滿滿的能量 :)

(Lucifer:你也要加油喔~~~
2010-06-04 @ 22:32
迴響 from: Beotos [訪問者] · http://beotos.blogspot.com/
這樣不合理的經費
能合理的報了才不合理

朱大叔
這次標題的靈感是不是源自奇諾之旅
2010-06-04 @ 23:08
迴響 from: PS192 [訪問者]
嗯,這事我倒是幹過。
所以一切都是假的啦!
什麼卓越計畫,那是什麼鳥東西!
請誰不重要!什麼專業也不重要!
收穫不重要,只要報表漂亮就OK啦!
2010-06-05 @ 08:31
迴響 from: 砍叫獸比較快啦 [訪問者]
*****
台灣叫獸特別多,把研究助理當政府出錢的免費佣人,文具是給他家小孩畫畫的,研究計劃只是用來供養他這一群人和他的祖師的,研究成果能賣錢的,就去成立個公司去申請專利,不能賣錢的,就用來升等,碳粉匣的制度還是留著,那天有個研究生翻臉了,拿這個事來登報,將來才有機會起訴叫獸啊。養這些叫獸還要方便他們?
2010-06-05 @ 09:48
迴響 from: s953812 [訪問者]
借朱大的版面一角
能否請教
會計制度應該怎樣修改才比較好?
2010-06-05 @ 12:27
迴響 from: PADAPON [訪問者]
****-
啪搭啪搭啪搭碰~
碰~碰~啪搭碰~
2010-06-05 @ 16:58
迴響 from: 一塊錢 [訪問者] · http://devilmen.blogspot.com/
*****
我以前也開過不少『墨水夾』的發票。。。哈哈。
2010-06-05 @ 22:29
迴響 from: shulong [訪問者] Email
*****
碳粉匣事件真是大驚奇!原來軍、公、教都是這樣~~
雖然國科會計畫編預算時都編寫的粉實際,但核銷經費時卻讓人痛苦,明知道是不能做的、不合理的,但還是要做,真是悲哀,一天到晚跟廠商要發票,自己都覺得心虛,良心發現了,趕緊逃離學校助理的生活~O_O~
2010-06-06 @ 00:52
迴響 from: DUDU [訪問者] Email
_,._
゚Å゚ )<這值得說嘴嗎!?
⊂彡☆))3')<好險我有蒐集發票的習...

結論:常將有時當無時,莫待無時思有時(發票與良心亦然)
2010-06-06 @ 21:44
迴響 from: 怪現象多的是~~~ [訪問者]
以下都是夢到的.......
比如跟國科會申請80萬買儀器,
然後國科會只給你二十萬,
還要你一定要買到原來的東西,真是很怪!
所以每次都要寫報告去變更購買名目,
然後久了就是常態了~~~
(國科會都不會覺得奇怪嗎?)
(申請-->變更 無限循環)
然後永遠買不到需要的東西
最後只能把一堆計畫的經費
分別購買一堆不同名目的東西
其實那些東西都是同一台大機器上的各部零件

還有因為十萬塊以上要公開招標
所以常會發現有人買九萬八、九萬九的物品
(買一堆高價的高壓電纜、電源開關等)
這樣除了不用公開招標外
還可以當耗材報帳 不用當財產
那東西真的買了嗎?
我想應該跟買探粉匣是一樣的方式吧
所以道高一尺 魔高一丈
大家總是會想出生存之道的!
讀個碩博士 報帳一把罩!
2010-06-07 @ 11:22
迴響 from: DuDu [訪問者]
難怪碩博士起新比較高
研所畢業
連行政都會了
2010-06-07 @ 14:52
迴響 from: BlackKingK [訪問者]
*****
從國中耳聞…
高中親眼看到…
大學自己去做…已經習慣了!

要改的是上面的腦袋吧!

我只記得高中學到的這句話很有道理「有些事,只能說不能做;有些事,只能做不能說。」

我想我還是無力回天吧!
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